Dave viers ,viersco magnum calibres for ultra long range range. He has his chey tac/505gibbs based line of wildcats and another line based off an even bigger case. These are 190grain capacity offerings in 375, 416, 458 and now made in large qty's by Bruce bertram - he seems to think they are based on the 577 trex...

http://www.blackdiamondrifles...._Viersco_Magnum.html

I find the ultra long range scene interesting in that they paralell our bigbore developement with similar sized actions and brass cases right up the scale but for a completely different end. And niether group knows much about the other

Terex is about .690" case head
Gibs/Chey-Tac .635"
Nyati/577 Nitro .660"
Would be interesting to see big brass above the Gibs size available.
Trex brass is rare and expensive.

thanks Boomie this brass must be very close to Trex then. I have emailed Dave for exact specs. In the meantime found some of his comments on snipers hide.com
"the VM takes a .690 bolt face. Case head is .678 base of case is .680. "

bruce bertram is making these and cheytac brass bulk.From all reports he is managing to satisfy the long range guys requiremenst for crazy pressures and consistency... It must be a lot better quality than his regular nitro express stuff.

Interesting
Makes me wonder if they are using the same brass to form Ed Hubels 585 HE.

The cases look like improved shoulder trex cases
with sharper shoulder. other over the years made wildcats
by necking down trex and worked if the brass was hard.

His quality is great on all his stuff now
as he got all machines redone as new.
And uses a modern case lube system in his work.
He makes my cases when he makes the Cheytac cases
and just uses different header.

Now the trex has .688 base and these are reported
as .010" smaller at .678". But as capacity is reported
at 190gr it is a bit less than my case which is longer.
So he may use same cups for these and same draw punches
with larger outside draw dies and different header. Which
makes a real thick case on the sides with insides
same as Cheytac and mine. Thing is with thick sides/corner,
is annealing before the last draw and the heading
has to be perfect or brass ends up soft, like turned cases,
as Marc was telling me. Thst is why a lot of early trex cases were
soft and extracted harder with hairy loads.Their sides were
thicker and harder to anneal right.Have to hold the heat on longer
to anneal but if on to long then rest of the draw and the heading
may not be enough to work harden it to full potential strength.
An early trex case I have here is softer than Cheytac cases and
the super strong 585HEs he sent me to test.ED

Trex Brass soft? When I had one, I had to routinely hammer the bolt open after each shot. I also had some brass that mic'd .678 that caused unreliable extractor problems with my gun. Glad I sold it. Ed's round is a way better design if you just gotta have a .585.-rob

Karl

The major reason that I stayed stuck on a .460Wea. for 32 years is the quality of the Norma brass.

It may not be the hardest brass out there, but it was always very consistent.

A friend of mine likes his wildcats and he uses Bertram cases.

He is having the same issues with that brass now as he was having 25 Years ago.

I would recomend you to take few sample cases before you commit yourself into some big expenditure.

I finally made up my mind for me. If I'm going to get something different than .460Wea. it will be .50BMG case based .585"/620"?

Just because of the guaranteed quality of brass. At least I know the BMG brass is what it says it is.

Pyzda

I will agree with you guys knowledge, that the HE is a way better design...but I always like the look of the T-rex...big bottle necked case looked like a scaled up 416 rigby...most of the other designs just look like a scaled up 458 win mag.

Ed

Trex looks bit impressive like BMG does but with necked
design it has to load much slower powders, that is powder
with a lot more deterrent to keep pressures down.
So you get less energy per unit of powder compared to
powders that can be used in a straight case.
For comparison you can't get enough extra of the slower
powder needed in a 50BMG to equal what my 585 can do
say with a 650 gr bullet in both with same long barrel.
Example 585HE load- 180gr of Hodgdon Superperformance.

A far as BMG cases go there are some that are softer
and not as good as folks think.Some I've had were
expanded over .006" more than good ones at the base. Ed

good news is Bruce is open to new designs, and may not be a stretch for someone to get him into doing a run of 577 trex. I am a fan of Ed's 585 too but the more the merrier

I think the quality is pretty good too if Dave viers and the ultra long range crew are endorsing it. They wouldn't tolerate any moa variance or low ftlbs due to poor brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Trex Brass soft? When I had one, I had to routinely hammer the bolt open after each shot. I also had some brass that mic'd .678 that caused unreliable extractor problems with my gun. Glad I sold it. Ed's round is a way better design if you just gotta have a .585.-rob

Well Rob - I have said this before.. My experience with the 577 TRex is limited to two rifles. The A Square was a POS and was sold. My next was a full custom gun, made the right way ... Brass from Horneber is .687" and once fired brass holds 224 grs of water. And it takes up to 20 firings of 750 grs/ 2600 fps loads if I neck anneal every 3.-4. reloading.. So brass and rifle works just excellent. Fortunately I ordered 500 pcs of brass from Horneber and I know its almost impossible to get right now..
Only drawback with this combo is WEIGHT... I must admit that I am a lot more tempted to carry my 500 AccRel at 8 Ibs any day.. I just loaded the .510" new design 600 grs North Fork FPS to 2345 fps average and that combo WORKS. And easy to carry as well... But still think the 577 is nice, the 500 is just more practical to lug around the bush searching for elephants....

With Buffalos 224 grains capacity report, the 577 Trex is still king of the 585's at least in the horsepower department.

My vote is for Hubel's 585 HE.
Kill any elephant anywhere; reload
brass many times over. Go Ed!!!!!

It is the amount of the right speed powder
that the case design can hold and use,
and the cases still practically fall out that counts.
Mine holds 195gr of Hodgdon Superperformance heavy ball
powder, a vibrated, compressed load under the bullet.
Gets your attention, but we can hold it down
in the 14lb Enfield,PH, Ruger, BBK and Savage, etc.
A 385 gr jacketed bullet with same amount of H335
goes 3900.Ed

I have seen 2700fps out of the .600Ok/.585 or .585 AHR as its now called with a 26 inch barrel. The difference may be barrel length and bore-Rider bullet as the case capacity of the Trex and .585 AHR are very similar. I agree the A-square Trex was a total POS and I don't regret selling mine at all. I never had any decent brass and thus could never get the velocities claimed without hammering the bolt open. I like you would rather carry a 8lb rifle all day and take the recoil for one or two shots than carry a 13lb gun all day and have less recoil to deal with. Some may disagree!-Rob