Hanging around the gun show for two days --

Finding a gun at a gun show is like dating. You look around, think about it, look some more, figure out what strikes your fancy.

There are no elephant on the North Oregon Coast. We use 45/70 Govt. for Roosevelt elk. Some like a 300 Win. Mag.

We should note too that I buy guns just because I like them. I don't have to shoot them a lot. I just like owning them.

So there it was, Ruger No. 1, added peep sight mounted on the sight rail. Really nice wood, it's an older Ruger, but looks brand new. Comes with the box and all the packaging.

.458 Win. Mag. -- There's no market for this gun anywhere in the state, unless you fly to Africa to hunt. I don't. But it's a nice looking gun.

I already have a Ruger No. 1 "Tropical" in 45/70 Govt. Leupold heavy duplex reticle scope on that one.

-- Getting toward closing, the end of the gun show. The seller knocked $125 off the price. Now I own an "elephant gun."

And I'm having a hard time finding brass in stock online -- basic stuff, about 100 would be nice. Midway has the "high end" stuff and the rest is "seasonal" or "backordered."

-- Ahhhhhhh, but I go to the "big city" tomorrow! Maybe the "big box" outdoor store will have some in stock.

if you are just going to shoot it for fun, less recoil is to get the 350 gr factory loads... i think muzzle energy on it is close to the 510 gr stuff, but lots less recoil... i have a galco slip-on recoil pad on my #1 .458, it helps make the gun fit better....and cuts down on felt recoil....

Congratulations! Rechamber to Lott, replace the factory pad with a Decelerator, maybe add a little weight to the butt, and you'll have a most versatile 45.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Congratulations! Rechamber to Lott, replace the factory pad with a Decelerator, maybe add a little weight to the butt, and you'll have a most versatile 45.

Recoil pad on it is a Kickeeze. I like it in the caliber it came in. Any more weight in the butt and I'm not able to button my jeans.

-- but I understand what you're saying. Some people buy brand new Harley Davidsons just so they can take them apart and "fix" them.

I have some 350 and 400 gr. Speer bullets for the 45/70, also some 500 gr. Speer "African Grand Slam."

I've been a "recoil junkie" ever since I shot someone's Savage 308 when I was about 10 yrs old. The 45/70 thumps pretty good with cranked up 400 gr. bullets. But this is the first gun that I've actually been a bit intimidated about shooting.

-- which is why I bought it. *S* That's the "nut" part of "gun nut."

Also -- ordered 100 pcs brass, dies, shell holders from Graf & Son. Good link! I'm not familiar, but they have what I want, and pay the freight!

Macifej
I just bought 50 from Midway for about the same price. I think I paid $46.99 per 50 You have to keep checking as It comes in on occasion and they fill back orders till it is gone then notify people with it on their wish list.
45-70 Govt.
Congrats on your new elephant rifle. You might try some lighter loads and work up so you become accustom to the recoil. You can even load light 45-70 type loads to start with. I haven’t tried it but Hogdons has a load for a 300gr cast bullet with 19 gr Trail boss at 1187 to23 gr 1282 and I have loaded 400 or 405 gr bullets with 74 gr varget for a listed 2246. Then stepping up to 500 gr Hornady’s 70gr Varget for 2056. The last load will kill most everything on the North Oregon Coast.
Bill

quote:

The last load will kill most everything on the North Oregon Coast.

Including the nut holding the trigger . . .

The guy who sold me this makes custom Sharps 1874 and 1877 rifles for "buffalo silhouette" shooting.

He's doing 45/70 and 45/90 black powder and patched bullets out to 1000 yds. Some of those target guns with No. 4 barrels run 25 lbs I think.

Buddy and I are looking at casting 458 bullets in the 350 to 500 gr. range. He's got the full setup except for the moulds. That's easy to remedy.

In the meantime, I have 100 pcs Hornady brass coming from Graf & Son, dies, shell holder, shell plate for the case trimmer.

I should get a photo of this gun. It's got nice wood on it. And I keep coming back to how heavy it is.

Welcome aboard .....I,m glad yours has a Kickeeze pad on it .. Hopefully its the magnum rifle pad that is 1.2" thick ... I had one put on my first 458 and it was wonderful after the double x pacmeyer pads ... They would bottom out but the kickeeze never did ...

Has the saftey slide been fixed so it doesn,t hang the brass up on its way to the ground ??
I had to do that to all my #1s ......I really like how fat the barrel is on the #1 458 Tropical rifle .......It,s a simple matter to have a smith take down an express rear sight insert to fit into the folding rear sight dovetail ......The front bead is fine enough that it works good for deer hunting ....That 315 gr GSC HV bullet would be perfect for all Oregon hunting ...with a fixed 4x Leupold and express sights you would be set ....

I,m always real happy to see someone get a 458 , if you couldn,t tell

Kickeeze pad is 1.2"

Saftey slide is stock. I just use the action like an extractor, but yeah . . . Ruger should fix this design issue. It'd be simple.

Fat bbl. I like the weight of the whole rig. This one has nice wood.

It has a peep sight that attaches on the rail. Comes off fast.

Just found a box of Oregon Trail Laser Cast -- 350 gr. met plat, hard lead, double grease groove, cannalure. Going to play with these, on the Win. Mag. and the 45/70 Govt. too (another Tropical No. 1).

Looking for a fixed 3X Leupold. Oregon ya know . . . It's Leupold or the highway.

-- But, gasp! . . . I don't hunt. I just like to work up loads, and shoot. And I like really, really big guns.

Long story short --

I bought a heavy Brownell's military sling, 1 1/4" from Sportman's Warehouse when I was in town. Spendy, but nice, $57.

Got it home and there's a flaw in the leather -- serious thin spot in the hide -- as in I could pull it apart at the thin section.

So hell's bells . . . returning it is a 250 mile round trip deal. But there are at least a half dozen gun shops along the way --

Sportsman Warehouse was OK with the return. It was their foul up. It'd been returned before and was restocked.

Ahhhhhhhhhh -- but the half dozen gun shops on the way . . .

I found a Leupold 4x fixed 30 mm. used in perfect shape for $1.19. Also, Ruger rings used, in new condition, $29 the pair.

So now it's a SCOPED elephant gun.

Ohhhhh yeah . . . this shop has an interesting "junk case." Full of odds/ends, mostly beat up old "parts guns."

I found a cheapo Conn. Valley Arms Inc. (Italy) replica Colt 32 cal. 5 shot pocket pistol (cap/ball) -- "jammed up" but otherwise in good shape. $25 out the door, no paperwork on BP.

Brought it home, took it apart, cleaned it up. The pawl/trigger spring was installed upside down. Works now!

Headline - "Hippie non-hunting School Teacher prepares for Oregon Fall Sasquatch Season after drawing tag."

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Headline - "Hippie non-hunting School Teacher prepares for Oregon Fall Sasquatch Season after drawing tag."

Actually I've been charged with full responsibility for keeping ALL the elephants out of Clatsop Co. Oregon. So far I'm running 100% efficacy.

Get geared up Bubba! We're coming up to your neck-o-the-woods for a Nutria Safari!!

Locally the commercial fishermen have been shooting the sea lions. 12 gauge "Marine" Rem. 870 with rifled slugs. They call it their "Lion Gun."

Finally got a photo:

B.S.2c. (boom stick 2 cents)
why not add another über classy cart to match that of the 45-70.

Rechamber the 458 win mag #1 to the 450 NE.
since hornady is supplying ammo might be a fun option.

The 458 win mag was designed to replicate the 450 NE so hey...

Ruger # 1's are so classy with rimmed carts.

Nice looking rifle. Try 400 or 405 gr bullets with 74 gr varget for a listed 2246 that should make a good "lion" load.
Bill

Graf & Son should be dropping off the dies and brass this week-end.

I found some Oregon Tails "Laser Cast" 0.459" dia. met plats, hard cast lead -- box of 250, $60. These for the 45/70 Govt. and the WM. Found a box of Hornady Interbond 500 gr., also have some 400 gr. Speer.

Hodgdon 4895 and 4198 are the powders I use in mid and large rifle. I might have some 335 on the shelf.

I just got this gun Sunday. I don't want to re-bore! (Although 458 Lott has some appeal . . . )

Tickled spitless on the scope and rings. That was a find!

quote:

Originally posted by 45-70 Govt.:
Long story short --

I bought a heavy Brownell's military sling, 1 1/4" from Sportman's Warehouse when I was in town. Spendy, but nice, $57.

Got it home and there's a flaw in the leather -- serious thin spot in the hide -- as in I could pull it apart at the thin section.

So hell's bells . . . returning it is a 250 mile round trip deal. But there are at least a half dozen gun shops along the way --

Sportsman Warehouse was OK with the return. It was their foul up. It'd been returned before and was restocked.

Ahhhhhhhhhh -- but the half dozen gun shops on the way . . .

I found a Leupold 4x fixed 30 mm. used in perfect shape for $1.19. Also, Ruger rings used, in new condition, $29 the pair.

So now it's a SCOPED elephant gun.

Ohhhhh yeah . . . this shop has an interesting "junk case." Full of odds/ends, mostly beat up old "parts guns."

I found a cheapo Conn. Valley Arms Inc. (Italy) replica Colt 32 cal. 5 shot pocket pistol (cap/ball) -- "jammed up" but otherwise in good shape. $25 out the door, no paperwork on BP.

Brought it home, took it apart, cleaned it up. The pawl/trigger spring was installed upside down. Works now!

A piece of advice. DON'T shoot your scoped "Elephant gun" off the bench, at least until you've fired it off hand. Just to get a feel fir the recoil. But make sure your medical insurance covers forehead stitches if your gonna ignore the advise

And no, I'm not gonna tell you how I know 'bout the stitches, broken glasses, etc.

Roger that . . .

Going to sneak up on the whole program, 350 gr. bullets, then 400 . . . 500. I ran some numbers on recoil to get an idea what I'm looking at.

I posted this in "Quantify Recoil?" in this forum:


Recoil comparison calculated with 9.5 lb gun in all instances:

30-06 Spfd, 150 gr. bullet, 2932 fps -- 6 ft/lbs

45/70 Govt, 350 gr. bullet, 1874 fps -- 14 ft/lbs

.458 Win. Mag, 350 gr. bullet, 2469 fps -- 24 ft/lbs

.458 Win. Mag, 500 gr. bullet, 2156 fps -- 38 ft/lbs

.458 Win. Mag, 600 gr. bullet, 1939 fps -- 45 ft/lbs

I have no problems with the 45/70 offhand, but it really thumps off the bench. But then the bench setup I was using was really funky.

The plan is to shoot offhand, although it might be fun to shoot prone on a Slip N' Slide.

When I told the wife I was building a elephant gun she asked why. I told her to keep the elephants out of the garden she said we don't have any elephants in the gardens. I said see its working all ready.

quote:

The guy who sold me this makes custom Sharps 1874 and 1877 rifles for "buffalo silhouette" shooting.

.45-70: Was this the fellow from Bend? They make anice Sharps over there.
Bill down in the Rogue Valley

Yeah, from Bend. Mike somebody. "Tenths" something is the name of the shop. The card is stowed in the wallet, downstairs -- and it's late at night.

Graf & Sons delivered this PM. Just loaded 16 pcs. 350 gr. over Hodgdon 4895, 77 gr. -- min load on the Hodgdon site. It's still compressed powder.

Just may touch off a couple behind the barn tomorrow. Neighbors love it when I do that. *S*

(Totally legal, and I'm not the only one shooting in the yard in this area.)

I couldn't resist a .458 win mag in Ruger #1H. Love the gun! I've been shooting 400gr loads -- lots of fun.

My only suggestion is to put the stock in the pocket on your shoulder, not on the shoulder joint ball, and not on your arm. Shoot with a more "open" position, a bit behind the gun. The recoil doesn't seem to bring the barrel up so much, you won't creep forward and cut yourself on a scope.

That gun was so much fun that this began a journey for me that has included a .458 Lott (Ruger 77), .416 Rigby (Ruger 77), .416 rem (Ruger #1H), .375H&H (CZ 550), not to mention an older Rem 700 Classic -- which made the trip with me to Africa (push-feed and all).

Dan

45/70

I have already made this observation/correction to the data you've provided. It fails to consider the mass of the powder charge. Although a gas when it leaves the barrel, it has the same mass it had as a solid powder charge.

Because in some instance the powder charge is a significant percentage of the mass be propelled out the barrel, it must be considered. For example, my 150gr 30-06 load is propelled by 51 gr of powder which accounts for 25% of the mass fired.

In my 45/70 load, the charge weight is 42grs or 1/10 of the mass; similar results with the 458WM 500gr loading 55grs. My 458WM, 450gr load uses 70gr of powder or 15% of the total mass fired. In sum, you cannot neglect to put in the powder charge.

My program (RCBS) provides the following recoil data for the load shown in a 9.5 pound rifle with the cartridges indicated based upon loads I use:

30-06 150gr 51gr chrg 2900fps 10.3 ftlbs

45/70 400gr 42gr chrg 1970fps 14.2 ftlbs

458WM 450gr 70gr chrg 2300fps 54.2 ftlbs

458WM 500gr 66gr chrg 2150fps 55.4 ftlbs

There is a lot of difference between 38 ftlbs (your reported recoil for a 500gr 458 load, and 55 ftlbs. 38 ftlbs is a good 300gr 375HH load.

Forty-five ftlbs is my personal comfort limit. I find the 458WM with 500gr loads to be a real bear in part because my rifle weighs 8.5 pounds.
At 2050fps, it generates 56 ftlbs of energy, which is beyond my level of comfort.

I have avoided shooting this this rifle at 2150fps because it generates 61 ftlbs of energy. This not only hurts, but I found the 55gr load was causing me some visual problems. Because recoil can cause detachment of the retinas, I have ceased experimenting with this rifle while I assess my courses of action. Kudude

Gumboot458, What's the best way to fix the safety slide on the Ruger No.1 so that it doesn't "hang up" the ejected cartridge? That could be trouble in a tight spot. I've got the ss/laminate Tropical model in .458 Lott that I soon hope to put to use on a bison or three....maybe a big ol' bear too!

quote:

This not only hurts, but I found the 55gr load was causing me some visual problems. Because recoil can cause detachment of the retinas, I have ceased experimenting with this rifle while I assess my courses of action.

I hope you're seeing a good eye doctor, kudude.
Detached retinas are treatable as long as you get to them in time.

Yes, detached retinas can be one of the unfortunate consequences of playing with the big boomers.

quote:

Originally posted by srshooter:
Gumboot458, What's the best way to fix the safety slide on the Ruger No.1 so that it doesn't "hang up" the ejected cartridge?

Yer just file the front down a bit, or so I've read.

I've been using this recoil calculator on line...

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

and this energy and Taylor KO calculator as well

http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp

Hope this helps,

Chuck