Is this cartridge going to be the 3" or 3 1/4" length case as chambered by Ruger? Thanks.

The 450/400NE 3" Jeffery with a .411 bore!

macd377...

do you have any way of confirming the 411 bore???

there is some talk that they might do a 410 just in case someone uses it in a 408 bore. if they use a 411 on a 408 there will be a nasty suprise. the extra thou might prevent early graves. i do hope it is a true 411 bore and bullet with a huge warning on the ammo. (although the 410 bore would be great for shooting pistol bullets ) it is important that those who have had these rifles handed down to them get them sluged to see the actual bore diameter and not have a bigger boom than they intend.

BStick, thanks for all of your info on this! I was in discussion with a smith this time last year about having a No 1 done up in this cal. Much nicer to get it from Ruger w/cheap brass to boot!

About the bore size, I've got a few boxes of Woodleigh '408"' that measure .4065" on 3 different sets of calipers and some .411"s that measure .4095" (and .330"s that are .3285"). I've always wondered if the wise folks down south are accounting for the various 'standards' from days of yore? I'm sure this isn't an accident as Woodleighs are about as close to perfect as I suspect we'll ever get. I think Hornady/Ruger would be smart to hedge their dimensions too.

BTW, does anyone have any info if they will offer this in the stainless Tropical? (another perm. fund dividend gone)

Thanks!

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
macd377...

do you have any way of confirming the 411 bore???

there is some talk that they might do a 410 just in case someone uses it in a 408 bore. if they use a 411 on a 408 there will be a nasty suprise. the extra thou might prevent early graves. i do hope it is a true 411 bore and bullet with a huge warning on the ammo. (although the 410 bore would be great for shooting pistol bullets ) it is important that those who have had these rifles handed down to them get them sluged to see the actual bore diameter and not have a bigger boom than they intend.

Boom Stick, I think simple legistics will indicate the .411 bore, because they can use the same barrel blanks as the 405 Win barrels, with only chambering difference. This is cost cutting you know!

I think where you may see the .410 dia is with the bullets used by Hornady in the ammo they make for the 400Jef, and .405 Win . The .410 could concievably be shot safely in older .408/.409 bore rifles, but would still shoot alight in the new 400Jef/.405 Win's .411 bore!

I simply think money will decide on the bore dia of the barrels,for Ruger, and liability on the part of Hornady!

All this is simply a guess on my part, but where money is concerened, I think Ruger will use one barrel bore size for both rifles.

Well put, Mac.

Hog Killer

I wrote to Hornady, a while back, to ask if the rumours about Hornady and Ruger working on a .450/400 for the future were true. The following is the reply that they sent me:

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Thanks for the inquiry. So much for well kept secrets since plans seem to have made it all 'round the world.
We are working on the 450/400. and we are testing it in Ruger No.1. It is inappropriate for me to state Ruger will or will not be making it. I think they're thinking favorably but I know it won't be introduced before next year if they decide to proceed.
Ah, the bullet dilemma. Frankly we don't have a good answer. The gun we're using was a 405 Winchester so the barrel diameter is .412. However the test ammo we are going to make will probably be .410 or possibly .409 even, in order to not create too much pressure in the .408 barrels and still shoot acceptably in the .411's. We are open to advice since there are very few new guns being made. I don't think Ruger really cares because they would have to build a new mandrel anyway. In our opinion I would prefer the .411 barrel and I think the undersized bullets will still upset enough to adequately grip the rifling.

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the middle of the road will please nobody!!!

make 2 (408 and 411) or 1 but put a big damn red with blinking lights warning on it. guns are inherently dangerous and we except the fact. we are not playing with nerf for goodness sake!

but idiocy and greed win the day far too often and it makes no sense to go out of business. make people sign a waiver or something but please make at least a 411!!!!

hornady are you reading this!

One solution might be to go the 38 auto/38Super route.
When they increased the ballistics of the 38 auto they just called it the 38 Super. As I remember it they did not change any of the outside demensions, just gave it a new name.

Hornady could call the cartridge the 450/400 3" Ruger, use .411 bullets and put the proper warning on the box.

They load Light Magnums with the warning not to shoot in semi autos, and several companies load 45/70 to higher pressures, with warnings on the box.

Also I think A-Squares bullets for the 450/400's were .409, at least that is what the boxes said.

This string is indicative of the issues that Hornady is trying to deal with. There are always those who must make a molehill into the Rocky Mountains.

The original standard groove diameter for the .450/.400 3 1/4" was .408". Then Jeffery did his own thing with the 3" and used a .411" diamter. That was a mistake. In time a .400 barrel became a .400 barrel to the gunmakers and there are plenty of 3 1/4" rifles out there with .411" bores and 3" rifles with .408" bores. I've owned both. Overall, I'd say that there are more .408" bores in rifles of BOTH calibers than there are .411". After WWII, Kynoch punted and loaded both calibers with .410-411" bullets. Nobody complained and it worked fine.

In numerous conversations with a tech guy at Hornady, I can tell you that they're really hung up on this issue. They made up pressure barrels in both diameters and ran .411" bullets through both. The difference in pressure was less than 1000 PSI. That really stumped 'em. I asked him "...and you were expecting.....?" This is old news, but nobody believes it.

The only solution that will satisfy everyone is for them to do what Woodleigh does - make both diameters.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."