I have a new 458 Lott that I bought a few months ago. I hope to take it to Zim in October to hunt elephant.

I went with my brothers to one of the places I hunt to shoot hogs with my new toy. I figured what better way to get familiarize with the rifle.

When we got there, it had been raining and was threatened to rain more. The Lott is a blued gun. I decided against using it. Instead, I took my custom 416 Remington magnum as it is stainless. To make a long story short, it was near dark and I spotted a large boar. We got out to put the slip on him. I looked up and there was another big boar trotting down the road straight towards us. At about 35-40 yards, I hammered him in the head. The guy with me had never seen anything shot with a big bore rifle. The way he talked , he was clearly afraid to shoot it. This shot didn't stop his fears. .

I had hammered this hog hard. I shot him in the head above the snout, yet somehow, both lower jaws were broken! All my buddy could do was carry on about how powerful this gun was. I pointed out to him that the LOTT was more powerful. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the shot may not have broken those jaws. He was absolutely in awe of what had happened.

The next day, i got in a stand frequented by hogs with the Lott in hand. After a while , a group of 7 came in. I was trying to determine which one to shoot. Something spooked them and they took off at the speed of light. I pinned the last hog square through the shoulder blades just before it disappeared into the bush. The hole in the hog was most impressive as was the fact that it piled up instantly without hardly twitching. I viewed this as a good start.

Yesterday, I decided on another place where I knew there were 2 big boars. The shot would be a little longer. I decided to take the 416. Just before dark, I see a big boar trotting toward the feeder. It stopped. I decided to try a risky shot that would either result in a miss or instant death. I had little desire to track one in the dark considering the 3 moccasins we had killed nearby earlier in the day.

I put the 400 grain bullet just under the boar's left ear. That was pretty much it for him. He never got up or went any where.

I shot the Lott about 30 times in total. I shot it well. The gun is f'ing heavy. It doesn't feel as good to me as the 416. I have a horrible travel schedule between now and the time I head to Zim. I am not sure how many more rounds I can put through the Lott between now and then. As a practical matter, I doubt I can put even 100 rounds through it before I go. I am a little hesitant to take it when I really don't know how reliable it is.

On the other hand, my 416 is well broken in. it has been on many safaris. It has not failed me ever. Not even on the range. It feels right in my hands.

I need to concentrate on my work yet all I do is think about whether it is wise to take a gun that has not been thoroughly tested. Any comments?

Sounds like we have a lot of common ground in calibre selection and a similar dilemma.

I'm hunting buffalo in Masailand next March and have three rifles waiting to get the nod: a .470 double; a Kimber Caprivi .458 Lott (yeah I've already fixed all the Kimber screw-ups); and my old .416 Remington by Bill Wisemann.

The .416 is my baby. I've shot everything from buffalo to warthogs and impala, to whitetails, nilgai, and even turkeys over here. It's going.

The Lott is probably going too, but I still find it to be a bit of bitch from the bench. The .416 is a pussycat.

Maybe I need a .505 Gibbs to train me on the Lott. Good luck with your choice, but the .416 will do anything you ask of it.

My 458 Lott worked well with Masailand buff a couple of years ago. Couldn't have been a better application of this specific round.

Never mind the punch, the buff will have your attention!

Smart money says take the trid and true .416, it will kill anything on this planet and kill it quite well. Take the lott next trip after you have wrung it out!

Larry, I think your concern is valid.

The Lott may be fine, in fact, it probably is fine, but you won't know for sure until you've put in more time with it.

By the way, the hog hunting sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Feral hogs are a real problem down south, aren't they?

Good practice for us hunters, though.

Yes, there are lots of them in places. They are tons of fun to hunt.

I recently got back from Zambia and had the chance to shoot my PH's cz in 458 Lott to finish off my buffalo. Obviously the adrenalin was running high so I didn't really think it kicked hard. If I ever go elephant hunting it will be my caliber of choice.

Larry: thanks a lot for the DVD? It was great fun to watch and thanks for sharing!
Bill

You are welcome. I am glad you enjoyed it.

I have about decided to take the Lott solely as a backup. It is a heavy gun. While, I have not shot it off the bench, I find the recoil very tolerable . I don't look forward to any bench shooting nor do i think I want to shoot it 50 times in a day.

Larry,
Twice you have mentioned how heavy it is. You may want to try several minor modifications to reduce the weight slightly and improve its balance. I've had several rifles that did not have the right "feel" until I judiciously removed a little weight.

DAMN IT!!!!!!!

I just went to the range. I took the Lott & a 22. I shot a gong at 100 yards off sticks 6 times with the Lott. I hit all 6. Not bad. I move and shoot my 22 about 50 times. I was happy with that. I decided to reload the Lott and shoot off hand at clay pigeons at 25 and 45 yards. I hit the first 5 and I was happy. I was getting more confident about the gun. Famous last words.

On my 6th shot off hand, the scope hit me in the head over my left eye and the scope hit the ground. My brand f'ing new Swarovski I might add. My first thought was that the detachable mounts came loose. When I picked up the scope, I saw I was wrong. The mounts had sheared on one side.

I have fired a total of 56 rounds through the gun. I am guessing that about 20 were done with the iron sights. The rifle has wrecked the mounts with less than 2 boxes of shells.

Now I am worried. Will new mounts hold? Is the scope OK?

Did I mention that I just picked up a little over $2,000 worth of Federal Premium ammo today?

I guess the good news is that this didn't happen when an angry elephant was after me.

I've read where the Lott has either destroyed the scope or sheared the screws off in the mount. As I only have a whopping 7rds mild 458 win mag and 1 full power Lott through my Ruger No. 1, I am worthless in the recommendation department and simply wish you well and a hopefully undamaged Swarovski scope.

OUCH!

Larry, sorry to hear that.

What kind of mounts were you using and where did they shear?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by larryshores:
You are welcome. I am glad you enjoyed it.

I have about decided to take the Lott solely as a backup. It is a heavy gun. While, I have not shot it off the bench, I find the recoil very tolerable . I don't look forward to any bench shooting nor do i think I want to shoot it 50 times in a day.[/QUOT

OK, Larry I need know how heavy. I am about 40% through a Lott build that I think will be
close to 10# iron sighted. Think that's too light?

Luck with your hunt,

Stephen

Shooting is all about confidence. If you don't have confidence in your rifle you will be second guessing yourself all day long.
Take your 416

PS: In the past I owned two 458 Lotts and one 450 Ackley. All were scoped and the rings and mounts used were the plain jane Weaver's which held up perfectly.

Larry,

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Hope the scope's ok.

The scope is headed back to Swarovski . They were Talley mounts.

They sheared on one side where they tightened down.

The gun without a scope or any ammo in the magazine weights 9.5 pounds. That was based upon bathroom scales. Honestly , I figured it was more. Shoots very well. Recoil is mild .

I shot a couple of plastic bottles . Damn they went flying. Most impressive .

I imagine a Rifles, Inc gun will be ordered shortly .

Larry you may be better off w/out a scope especially if eles are your main quarry with the lott.

Arjun

Arjun:

I hear you. Unfortunately, I rarely shoot with iron sights. Further, at the tender age of 55, my eyes are not what they once were. While I have 20/20 vision, up close, my vision sucks. The sights aren't all that clear.

Hello,

I've used a 2 1/2 x Leupold Ultralight with Leupold's quick detach rings for 300 of the 400 rounds+/- I've put through my Lott. So far, so good. About half have been factory rounds and half handholds at 2270 fps with 500 grain bullets. The lighter scope should stress the rings less. Enjoy the Lott!

Best,

jpj3

jpj3:

Interesting comment. The consensus opinion of the "gun guys"is that the recoil combined with the weight of the Swarovski was the problem. I think you hit it on the head.

the weight might have hurt the RINGS, but nothing else -

i scope up to .510 .. at .550, you are looking at a bisquit cut in the eye

I understand and agree. However, there is another factor . Confidence.

Larry,

We need to do an autopsy on the dead Talley rings.
Any pictures?

So, even Talley is prone to a material defect eh?
I assume it was the main bolt/screw that is cranked tight by the lever (QD) or Torx head (fixed).
One hidden crack inside the screw, after that let go, all the force was on the single remaining one in the other ring.
Did it break both rings in the same fashion?

shootaway has been known to crash test single-ring setups on his .458 Lott.
That is why he wears a "shooting helmet."

I too like the Leupold 2.5X.

I have a new scope for my 404 RIP though, a Weaver 1x-5x "Dangerous Game" 30mm tube, true 1X-keep-both-eyes-open.
No need for iron sights with that one.
And 5X is good for MOA shooting at 300 yards.
It's in stainless Talley QD rings,
on my rebarreled Dakota 76 African.

I'll post a pic of that if you post those Talley ring autopsy photos.
Exactly where did they break?
Quincy wants to know.

RIP:

I do have an I phone picture. to be honest, my assistant has always posted the pictures for me. Please give me an e mail address and I will forward it to you. Perhaps you can post it.

Thanks.

Hi Larry,
Sent you a PM.
Thanks

It's amazing the damage a loose screw can do-use red loctite after degreasing and tighten like crazy with a special screw driver ratchet.Ask RIP about the damage a loose screw did to his stock.How his stock cracked with the crack of the shot!

The descriptionb seemed to indicate that the mounts/rings failed. Or was it the base attachments? I always have the #6 screw holes in the receiver drilled and tapped to #8 on anythin 375 on up. Cheap insurance. A torque screwdriver is also a good idea.

The picture has been sent to RIP.

Shootaway, I agree with you. However, I do not think that is the issue here.

How about using iron sights instead? The other day I was surprised to see my father,an 80yr old,hit a target the size of a pea,across the room,offhand sitting,with an open sight air rifle.The rear sights had a green flourescent circle on each side and the front had a florescent red partridge.

Larry,
Nor was a "loose screw" (though shootaway has at least one of those) the cause of a broken stock for me.

Here is the cellphone photo, better focus would help, but at first blush it looks like I don't know what happened there!



I will post a pic of some intact Talley rings, for comparison, gotta look at them myself!
Your ideas on what failed and other's ideas welcome here.

You might add "Talley Crash" to the title in your initial post (edit function beside the quote function) to attract more attention ...

If it is possible to disassemble and lay out the parts of those rings, get them all in the same plane, then your camera looks good enough to get good detail.
Looks like it autofocused on the wood grain below the parts.
Laying out the parts on a detailess piece of brown paper bag might give good focus and exposure.

My guys just called. There are apparently some rings specifically for this model gun in big bore calibers. They are called Alaska.....something or another. We are going to try these.

RIP thanks for your help. The only camera I had was the i phone.

Larry,
Did the solid side member of the Talley ring break and bend?
It looks badly mangled and missing some steel.
I am assuming the lever side of the ring is the off-side/away-side in your photo.
The onside of the solid ring side attachment looks splayed out and missing half of the side contact area with the base!
Is it possible to disassemble and lay out those parts for a pic?
I have heard good things about the "Alaska something or other" rings for CZ 550 Magnums, but have not had any need for them ... yet!

For discussion purposes and hoping you will get some pics of both failed rings laid out,
here is a sample of Talley parts, assembled on a 404 RIP,
and laid out parts on a manilla envelope:

The rings are at a gun shop 50 miles away. I will get them next week if possible . I am traveling for business and going caribou hunting Friday.

We can certainly wait for something this "interesting."
Old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

Larry, that looks like the rear ring that is specially made for the CZ 550 Magnum integral rear base with the notch in it.

It looks to me like the solid steel ring half, with the integral extension on the bottom that fits into the notch, has somehow cracked and bent in line with the bottom ring screws.

I can't imagine how that could have happened, unless there was a flaw in the steel, but even that seems highly unlikely.

Truly bizarre.

OK.
CZ rifle?
CZ Integral base?
Talley rings (yes, the Talley version made to fit CZ 550 Mag) on the CZ integral bases:
Yes, bizarre.

Alaska Arms LLC http://www.alaskaarmsllc.com/

The Alaska Arms rings will have a similar single recoil tab as the only positive/fixed recoil stop on the rear ring.
If that breaks, both rings can let go.

Metallurgical defect in the recoil tab/solid side of the ring?
Whether casting or best machined steel, a pre-existing defect could have been hiding in there.
Improper heat treating could ruin either sort of metal.
Proper metallurgy and proper heat treating and finish machining could make either type good also.

Is your Lott a Ruger bolt action? I've always been nervous about those semi circle cuts with a thumper. Call Gary Turner at Talley 803-854-5700 and I'm sure he will help. If a Ruger, you might consider putting a regular base with 8/40 screws on it.

It is a CZ.

It is very strange to me. I still have a knot on my head which is sore. The scope came off with some force. This tells me that I didn't get hit with an edge or I would be cut.

I am surprised that no one has opined that my hard head broke it!

When the scope hit the concrete, it pushed in one side by the objective lens.

My guns guys are really good. CZ, Swarovski & my gun guys think it is a combination of the recoil and the weight of the scope.

It would be extremely interesting to have a video of the incident.

Here is Larry's Talley-CZ ring, latest production, shown here on my .375 Wby with a Leupold 1.75-6X(36E):







Compare to the old original Talley CZ rings, no longer made, shown here on a 500 Mbogo with 2.5X Leupold Ultralight:







Let us review:

New:



Old:



The "solid" side (left side) of the NEW Talley ring has two holes through it just above the recoil tab on the rear ring.
Larry's ring cracked on a line through the centers of those two holes.
Those holes allow the screws that hold the bottom split (vertical split) of the ring together from the left side,
along with the main bolt tightened by the lever, coming across the split from the right side.
Those holes on the left lower rear ring half also lessen the integrity of the solitary recoil stop on the whole affair.

The OLD Talley-CZ ring is held together only by the two screws at the top of the ring, plus the main screw/bolt tightened by the Lever from the right.
It is really just a lever conversion of the old fixed-style ring.
Not as nice or easy for QD, not as repeatable,
but the solitary recoil stop attachment is not weakened by the extra holes:



Yes, likely it was just excessive scope weight and heavy recoil, but also a design weakness of the Talley-CZ rings,
maybe helped along by some metallurgical flaw too.
I doubt the Alaska Arms rings would hold up any better with a heavy scope.

How much did the Swarovski weigh on that .458 Lott?

"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.