Alaska Arms LLC http://www.alaskaarmsllc.com/

The solitary recoil stop on the Alaska Arms CZ rings is mobile, i.e., it comes already broken off.
Also it has only one big hole through it instead of two smaller ones.
Looks like excellently machined steel.
Shown with a lightweight Burris scope:

"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.

Larry this is all very intersting to me since I have the same set up including the talley 30mm rings. But my scope was to short so I havent mounted it yet. The reason for my reply was based on your comment about 50 year old eyes and open sights. I have 57 year old eyes and I have been practicing with the peep sight on my rifle and I am amazed at how well I can shoot. So amazed that I am taking it to africa rite away with just the peep. You can get one from NECG, my front sight is red fiber optic and it may contribute to the accuracy. In any event it works for me.

Hmmm.. In one post Larry stated that the sides of the mounts sheared off. Was it BOTH mounts or just the rear?

I think we need to also ask, if the rear mount failed, is the FRONT mount not strong enough to hold the scope in place? So the rear mount broke, why wasn't the front mount still on the rifle? Are there marks on the base that show the front mount was gripping the base as it moved backward and it was the sheer force of the Lott's recoil that slid it off? If there are no marks on the from base, can;t we assume that the front mount was NOT fully tightened and that perhaps this is what allowed the rear mount to move ever so slightly to cause the failure?

The way I understand it is that the scope moves forward under recoil, so if you have a combination of the rear lug on the mount engaging the front of the slot and the front ring firmly tight there should be very little movement at all. IN the case of the regular Talley bases there are two shoulders to take the brunt of this, it looks for the CZ, there is only the lug.

I would love to see a scope of the same weight as the Swarovski mounted ONLY with the front mount attached and then the gun shot. If it is able to withstand 10 or so shots without moving, I think one could conclude the front ring may have been slightly loose (or a very very light grip) when this failure occurred.


Hmmm...a good mystery for sure...

I think soldering shoulders on the CZ and using two front rings would create a double shoulder system like the regular Talleys.

I can't answer most of the questions as my gun and scope are in the shop. Given my schedule this week, there is about zero chance I can go look at the rifle & rings. I leave Friday for a hunting trip to Canada. It at least two weeks before I can go down there.

I don't profess to be an expert in this area at all. I am puzzled by the shearing of one side only. I would like to pose a hypothetical to those of you who know far more than I do about such matters.

What if one of the rings worked loose with from recoil or not tightening it enough. It would seem to me that this would put a hell of a lot more stress on the second ring and perhaps explains why only one sheared.

Feel free to tell me how stupid this is. As I said before, I am no expert. It is the only logical thing I can think of.

quote:

What if one of the rings worked loose with from recoil or not tightening it enough. It would seem to me that this would put a hell of a lot more stress on the second ring and perhaps explains why only one sheared.

This is exactly what I think happened. One thing to consider is that the angles of the dovetails on the Talleys and the CZ base may have not mated 100% and the bearing surfaces of the mounts were not as much as they should be. I think this would cause the ring to loosen easier than if it had full bearing stregth...dunno, just a guess.

IMO, The 458 Lott and up should be shot with irons or receiver sight..They tend to destroy scopes at around 300 rounds or sometime much less..I have ruined many scopes on those big bores over the years..

My take is the big bores are designed to shoot big bad stuff like Hippo, Buffalo, and Elephant, all of which are shot at under 100 yards and have big areas of vitals..and if you have to go into the thick after any of those animals you should be practiced enough to point shoot on a quarter at 25 yards and that isn't that difficult with practice.

Most of the folks that claim no scope or mount problems with the big bores just shoot them a lot less than they claim has been my experience, and many big bores are closet queens and I have yet to see one for sale that had a less than pristine bore, go figure!

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
PS: In the past I owned two 458 Lotts and one 450 Ackley. All were scoped and the rings and mounts used were the plain jane Weaver's which held up perfectly.

Yes I'm not sure what it is that some find Weavers ugly or beneath fitting to their DG rifles, or any rifle for that matter. I will not use any other rings on my rifles. I have never seen a broken 'genuine' old style Weaver ring. Admit that they can be a pain to fit up having to guess amount of roll on the scope as the steel band is tightened but boy oh boy you will not see a scope move in one.

Also not sure what anyone sees in the lever rings. I would not know of anyone having to remove their scope while an animal is charging and the standard Weavers can be removed with a turn of a knife blade or small coin if there is a need or wish to remove the scope and they return to battery as good as any lever ring does. Look at the upright ring mounts with levers; more holes drilled and less metal holding them together, no wonder we see so many failed ones pictured.

Talley mounts are usualy excellent. Your situation should not happen. There are a couple of possibilities. 1.) the fit between mount and dovetail may not have been quite right leaving part of the mount floating and putting extra stress on the part with contact. It would take a gunsmith and a lot of measurements to verify that. Solution modify the dovetail to improve the fit 2.) There was a metalurgical defect in the mount. Solution get a replacement. Suggestion. Since you have to get a replacement anyway, do that and take some measuremetns to make sure the fit between mount and dovetail is correct, if it isn't get a gunsmith to make the necessary modifications. Your outfit should work. The Swarovski may be a reasonably heavy scope but the arrangement should stand up to the punnishment.

As the "Weaver mounts" are favoured by some of you may I ask which Weaver mounts do you mean exactly?
Many thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
As the "Weaver mounts" are favoured by some of you may I ask which Weaver mounts do you mean exactly?
Many thanks!

These Weaver rings and the original Weaver vee bases which allow the use of open sights without having to machine grooves into the bases to get a sight picture.
This scope has been on the .404 for over 30 years and never moved. I epoxy glue all bases and screws when mounting these to rifles.

I have 400 full power rounds through my 500 Jeffery with Talley (old style) QR rings and a Leupold 1.5-5x scope. About 100 rounds or so was with a lead sled with 25 lbs of weight on it. No issues so far. Sorry to hear about your mount / scope problems.




VR

Chuck

Damn...! Chuck: I always drool when I see picks of your CZ 550 Safari Magnum. I have one “similar” with Field grade stock in 458 Lott. Mine looks like crap compared to yours

Thanks Ingvar, just trying to show the scope mounts. If I ever decide to sell it, I'll let the AR members have first crack at it. It functions flawlessly now and has alway shot sub MOA.

Properly installed both Weaver and Talleys will stay on a rifle..but the Lott does getcha if any little thing is wrong..It trashes scopes internally and I have had one scope come off and wack me between the eyes and cut my heavy plastic glassed in half at the bridge and cut a cookie in my noggin...

The best cure for bad eye sight such as Larry describes is a pair of prescription glasses to be used for hunting and a good receiver sight with the disc removed..

Blaming eyes for not using iron sights is usually a lame excuse used by way too many folks, when with a bit of practice and your eye docs help, most would be amazed at how accurate irons are, especially off hand wherein you get a much steadier sight picture, mostly because your wobble isn't magnified by the power of your scope, and that is a boone to trigger control, and trigger control is the key to good shooting IMO. Nothing beats a "controlled jerk" of the trigger when the chips are down.

Btw, at 77 I wear bifocals and have prescription in my upper glass, and I still use irons as good today as I did as a young man..I was raised on irons, and that may partially the reasoning, but I think the prescription glasses is the answer if you really want it. I think mostly the problem is most of todays hunters cut their teeth on scopes and have not clue as to how good iron sights really are.

Good post Ray! When are you going to hunt in Africa again? If you do,how about a hunt report(and video)?

I went to the gun shop today. The mount has been sent to Talley at their request. Sorry more pictures aren't going to happen.

The new mounts appear to be much more substantial.

Finally, I have to give some very positive comments regarding Swarovski. The scope had issues after it fell. Those issues were not the fault of Swarovski. Swarovski fixed the scope quickly with no charge. Great customer service indeed!

Larry,
Gone hunting yet?
I had a Talley failure last weekend.
I tightened the levers beyond finger tight by using a two-inch long piece of plastic tubing as a cheater bar.
On about the fifth shot with a 500 Mbogo CZ 550 Magnum,
the rear ring broke loose.
The main clamping screw was stripped.
This was the old-style Talley like chuck 375 has on his 500 Jeffery.
The main clamping screw is the only thing that holds the bottom half of those rings together.
If you loosen that to remove the scope, you loosen the ring's grip on the scope.
It may not be as good for repeatable POI on re-installation of scope as the new Talley QD system,
but it does not have the weakening double-screw-hole through the recoil lug area of the rear ring.

All of these CZ rings (Talley and Warne, and Etc.) have weak main clamping screws,
except for the factory CZ rings, which are designed to be torqued to 65 Inch-Pounds,
just like the main action screws on a pillar bedded rifle!
That is a secure scope attachment!

I think the "weak-main-clamper" rings are fine on lighter recoiling rifles of less than .458 caliber.
Heavier scopes can be used there too.

My solution for CZ 550 Magnum rifles of .458 and larger caliber, from another thread:
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Talley ring trouble on a CZ again:

I stripped out a set of Talley rings today.
My fault, I tightened a QD lever too much.
On the fifth shot my little Leupold 2.5X came loose in the rear ring, front ring still held.
One more shot and the scope would have gone ballistic.
My first clue was when the bullet impact went from dead-on zero at 50 yards to impact 8" northeast of zero.

I have a solution: Homemade QD levers on standard CZ rings.
I drill and tap a Leupold QD lever for an automotive metric screw that fits the CZ ring base, screw them together and epoxy the QD lever onto the automotive screw.
Then you can finger tighten or use a 5mm hex bit and torque driver to torque to 65-inch-pounds as CZ recommends for their main ring screw, what they call the "Clamping Screw."
This is a more robust screw than either Warne or Talley use.



There is no stronger setup for a factory CZ integral base with solitary recoil lug on rear ring, for solitary recoil slot on left rear receiver.
Having the horizontal split ring is better than a vertical split ring, if the clamping screw affects the vertical split.
Warne vertical splits seem to be immune from this problem, but they suffer the "two-screw-holes" problem in the recoil lug of the CZ rear ring.

Here are the lever sides of the "CZ-home-boy-QD" with a 2.5X Leupold Ultralight 1" tube,
and the Warne QD rings with a Weaver Grandslam Dangerous Game 1x-5x 30mm tube:





I'll use the Heavier scope and Warne rings on something gentle like a .395 Tatanka CZ.
I am also using the heavy Weaver DG 1x-5x on a 404 RIP Dakota M76 with Talley 30mm rings,
ON TALLEY BASES, AND THEY OFFER A DOUBLE RECOIL SHOULDER.
That cartridge is also more gentle on scopes than the 500 Mbogo.

"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.