The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores What is more likely to be harder on the lands of your barrel?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Consider your lands to be like a knife that need to cut into your bullet to give the twist for stablization.What is more like to dull your knife? 1- 100 % Hard bronze or brass 2-100% Hard copper 3-soft copper around a lead core I think you are most likely to choose 1 and 2. Also,remember any of these above can be oversized and not fit your bore correctly. | ||
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None of those metals are harder than barrel steel. An uncoated steel cleaning rod or steel jags, tips, or brushes are FAR more likely to damage the rifling. George  | |||
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The metals do not have to be harder.I have seen concrete floors worn out 2-3 inches deep in some areas by people standing on them alone.If it was like you say a knife never need be sharpened after skinning an animal. I do not need to worry about cleaning often a 500NE. My Lott has taken care of that problem.  Also,STAND UP and speak you mind! | |||
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I believe it really depends on how fast you fire. If you shoot one after another as fast as you can, until the barrel is smokin' hot and keep shooting that way until you can light a match on the barrel, it won't matter what the bullets are made of....your barrel will be toast in as little as 100 rounds. Of course it depends upon caliber too, maybe. We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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That is most true but let us say we keep that variable constant. | |||
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You are comparing different physical properties. Unless concrete is VERY different in Canada, concrete floors do not wear out by people just standing on them; they will wear down by friction and abrasion, as when a lot of people walk on them or wheels roll over them over a very long period of time. If I wedged a copper, brass, or bronze bullet into a length of rifled barrel and left it there for 100 years, the lands would never wear due to the contact with the bullet (except for any galvanic corrosion that might occur due to the contact between dissimalr metals). A knife cuts because its edge is actually composed of tiny tooth-like structures like these:  As you use the knife, those structures fold over or break off, necessitating stropping or sharpening of the blade's edge. Shooting steel-jacketed solids will eventually wear the sharp edges off the lands, but the throat will probably erode first. George | |||
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[URL=  ]bullet type number 3 [/URL] | |||
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There is far more to a wear, than just material difference in hardness. Rubber seals and O-rings are much softer than shafts. In many cases even a case hardened (carburized) surface at 58-60 HRC won't stop the shafts wear. Sometimes the only thing that can prevent a wear is a Hard chrome surface at 72 HRC which is about 6 HRC harder than lathe HSS cutting tips. Pyzda | |||
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I have never felt more sorry for anyone than I feel for Butch right at this moment. Mike | |||
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I know what ya mean!  | |||
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Butch should learn to just say "No".............. I suppose this will be a lesson for him! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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George: If you don't want to shoot monometels, that's fine. Just shoot Woodleigh softs and solids. However, please stop trying to convince everyone else that the bullets from North Fork, CEB, and Barnes are going to ruin the barrels of their rifles. Again, good luck with your new rifle. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Well said Dave. Shootaway Get the terminology right as well. A lot of bullets are made with Guilding metal - often from Europe (Germany). Suggest you do a bit of research. I also notice you don't mention steel solids yet talk about wearing barrels. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Oh thats what this is about. Look here shittaweigh, I have fired over 500 bullets from CEB at max pressure though my 375H&H and the gun only gets better. If anything they are helping to polish the bore  !If you don't like monometal solids please revert to paper patched pure lead and leave the rest of us alone! We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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It just dawned on me that the above refers to Shyteaway having ordered a DR from Butch. My oh my, one of the examples of the Customer is not always right !!! Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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worst thing to happen to a barrel? the nut on the end of the cleaning rod opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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You act like you own everything. | |||
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Pretty shitty concrete to start with is the only explanation for that. I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I'd prefer that than acting like I know nothing, which is what you do with your posts. . Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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 NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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Dang George, you keep this camera at your house? Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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Its the grit that is on peoples shoes that wear concrete, or the dirt and grit on an animal that wears knife blades. Dirty and grit impregnated lead bullets cause more wear than brass or gilding metal bullets that are clean. Unless you are shooting in a clean room I would not worry about the bullets causing wear. Just pick the one you like best or that shoots best and have at it. If you wear the barrels out you can always get new ones. BigB | |||
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Grit on meat? | |||
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Have you ever cut up an animal ? The hair, dirt, mud, grit et al on an animals hide does huge damage to knife blades. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Can you read my above post? | |||
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My only comment is that I would love the opportunity to shoot enough bullets of any kind to wear out a double rifle, especially a Scearcy. From what I can see it would take many hunts and several lifetimes to do!  | |||
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Anyway, it's the powder that wears out the barrel not the bullet. It doesn't matter what you shoot, brass, copper lead, it is erosion caused by the powder granules and heat that causes barrel wear. You could shoot candle wax and you would still get barrel wear. | |||
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good one | |||
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or have a very small percentage of that compared to copper... | |||
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Shootaway You really take the cake. Gilding metal is a NAME given to a metal that is a COPPER ALLOY. Around 95% or so Copper and 5% Zinc although different people make it with different percentages. But if you say to a metal merchant Gilding metal they will know what it is. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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I got it right it is just that you did not understand. | |||
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Shootaway Thats because you don't speak english-I keep trying to explain that to you, but you don't understand english.  | |||
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Compared to the "other" headache, this one's a migraine! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Within a few months of him getting the Searcy it'll be labeled at a total POS.. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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For a person that is a poor shot it is largely academic. He will hit nothing anyway. | |||
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The stress of a bullet being ingraved by rifling results in strain to the barrel. Strain can be measured by a strain gauge. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Rifling is not "cut" into the bullet as if by a knife. Have you ever seen knife edged rifling? Rifling is impressed into the bullet as it moves from the chamber into the barrel. The rifling impression starts off very shallow and increases in depth, just as the rifling of the bore increases in height. The bullet resists the impression, or "engraving", of rifling more or less depending upon the hardness of the bullet, the number of lands, the depth of the impressions of the rifling, the width of the lands, and the speed at which the impression of rifling are made, i.e. velocity of the bullet, and other factors. The most often looked at, and perhaps the most important, factor is the hardness of the bullet and/or bullet core and jacket. A bullet goes down the bore with great speed propelled by great pressure. Both the pressure and the resistance of the bullet to move through the bore cause the barrel to strain and expand ever so slightly. To exaggerate what is going on you might visualize a snake swallowing an egg. There can be no doubt that a 1" piece of .308 caliber solid steel rebar material will resist the engraving of rifling more than a 1" long piece of .308 diameter soft lead. Nor can it be doubted that each will to some degree cause wear of the lands, though the wear to the bore with soft lead is so minor as to be considered insignificant in the practicable world. There is a reason that no bullet manufacturer makes mono-metal bullets without bore riding bands. It is because the bands offer less surface area to contact the bore and thereby reduce barrel strain and wear to the bore. Also, because the bands tend to be fairly thin, it is easier for band material to flow back to the void behind it as the rifling is getting engraved on the bullet. This is also why no bullet manufacturer makes a solid steel bullet. Instead, they use a softer core and surround it with a steel jacket. If the steel jacket were hard enough and thick enough, and/or the core material excessively hard, then it would be like shooting that piece of steel rebar. Instead, the bullets are designed with steel jackets of varying thicknesses and softer lead or lead alloy cores. That allows them to give somewhat as the rifling is impressed into them. So herein lies the argument that many enjoy engaging in: Does the the design of the hard bullet, mono-metal or steel jacketed, sufficiently allow for impression of rifling on its surface without causing excessive barrel strain or wear? My take on it is that bullets of a proper design will allow the surface in contact with the rifling to give without excessive strain and pressure. I think that the major manufacturers have figured this out and design their bullets accordingly. Unfortunately, especially with some early mono-metal bullets, that hasn't always been the case. . | |||
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There are a very large number of centerfire bullets manufactured by Russia and other countries with steel jackets. Hornady used to manufacture FMJs with steel jackets Norma once manufactured expanding hunting bullets with steel jackets. | |||
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Sorry, I should have clarified that I was speaking of sporting bullets. FMJ bullets designed for military use, depleted uranium cores, and tracers cause a lot of wear to the bore. But for military use the benefits outweigh the wear. Military barrels are often chromed for that reason. I have shot out many, many military barrels, even chrome lined. I have only shot out one sporting rifle barrel and that was with hyper-velocity, moly coated ammunition. Not counting military and high volume competitive shooting, it should take more rounds than most people will normally shoot to wear a barrel out. There is something wrong if shooting sporting ammunition of any type wears a barrel out in a few thousand rounds. . | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores What is more likely to be harder on the lands of your barrel?
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