The 458 Win the pounding board of the experts and rightly so but it wasn't the caliber it was the factory loaded junk ammo and I would argue it should have been a 458 Lott and loaded down a tad perhaps, but that said it always suited me as a standard 458 Win loaded up properly by picking up a little velocity and holding down the pressure a tad and that made it a easy gun to shoot and deadly up to and including elephant and all DG..A friend stopped by and ask me to file in the iron sights in on pre 64 458 Win. I did and it shot great made me want one last Safari with the old girl ,it shot an inch at 50 and recoil was do able and the caliber always killed as well as any thing I shot with it. So much for the experts of the day.

There were two issues with the .458 win mag.

One was there were lots of ammo early on that either were never quite up to spec or degraded with compressed powder over time. IMO, it would have to be substantial problems as a 500 grain .45 bullet penetrated well in the old sharps calibers, and the velocities there were substantially lower than the nominal for the .458 WM.

The second issue had more to do with some gun writers not shooting as well as they should… and thinking that it was an arrow problem instead of an Indian problem.

great caliber - had some garbage factory ammo for ahile (it's been chrono'ed and documented several times) -

it can be a PITA to get to feed for some

line up the sights and enjoy the ride

OH Good Lord. Here we go again.

https://forums.accuratereloadi...821083332#4821083332

235 pages on the merits of the 458 WM vs 458 Lott.

Ray has STILL not grasped the difference between the SAAMI 458 Lott and the 458 Lott like Jack built.

Lots of fluff toward the end of those 235 pages but there's some good info in there as well.

Agreed!

I promise never to grasp again!!!

And a lot of gunwriters with little or no experience bashing the 458 as a means to sound more experienced than they were

And then ignoring the inconvenient little fact that ballisticians from major ammunition companies like Hornady when the claimed that when loaded to equal pressures, there as only 60-80 fps difference between the two cartridges.

As I recall, RIP was the man in charge of that .458 WM thread. I don't see him on here any longer, but I did see another long .458 WM thread on Campfire that appears to be RIP via a different handle.

Accurate 2230 and 450 gr monometal bullets have made the old 458 a cartridge to be respected.

quote:

Originally posted by whelenite:
Accurate 2230 and 450 gr monometal bullets have made the old 458 a cartridge to be respected.

A good 500 gr solid at 2150 fps was a proven load decades before the 458 Win was developed
And Jack Lott wrote numerous times that it was all he wanted .

... and RIP would tell you the 458 Win's throat tapers so slowly that you can often seat the bullets out to make an ersatz Lott, if the magazine allows.

in the CZ 550 I load mine with AA2230 and CEB 420 grain bullets at 3.60 oal and getting 2450 fps and with the 404 gr Hammer Bullet almost 2500 fps at 3.680 oal and complete pass through on Buffalo

Anyone have insight as to why Winchester went to 500gr and did not use the 480gr as in the 450 Nitro? I always hear the win mag aimed to replicate the 470 Nitro, but surely the win mag with a 480 at the time would have been a 1:1 to the 450 Nitro. Also, I note that even Kynoch only loads the 458 Lott with the 480gr, not the 500gr bullet. Was it perhaps to take advantage of the slightly additional SD??

Actually Winchester used a 510 gr bullet

Personally, I wouldn’t use any cartridge at less than 2400 fps, whatever bullet it uses.

All I can say.

If you shoot a chicken with one.

You get very little chicken and lots of guts.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All I can say.

If you shoot a chicken with one.

You get very little chicken and lots of guts.

I have shot pigeons with a 460 Weatherby Magnum

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All I can say.

If you shoot a chicken with one.

You get very little chicken and lots of guts.

I have shot pigeons with a 460 Weatherby Magnum

And a 7MM Rem. Mag. will kill and skin a squirrel in one action!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Personally, I wouldn’t use any cartridge at less than 2400 fps, whatever bullet it uses.

You certainly seem to shoot a lot of 22 lr ammo

Which all of your readers appreciate

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
All I can say.

If you shoot a chicken with one.

You get very little chicken and lots of guts.

I have shot pigeons with a 460 Weatherby Magnum

And a 7MM Rem. Mag. will kill and skin a squirrel in one action!

I can guarantee you, there is nothing.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

That can completely obliterate a bird and turn him into NOTHING.

Like a 22-243 wildcat shooting a bullets at over 5,000 fps!

I shot a rat with one.

All I could find was a hole in the ground where he was, about 6 inches in diameter, and roughly half an inch deep.

Largest part of his anatomy left was a piece of flesh with a bit of skin about a quarter inch in size!

The first varmint I shot with a 22 center fire was a crow and a 222 rem.

It made the mistake of landing in a tree 10 feet above me..

The crow died very quick.


Back too the 458 it does kill Pdogs quickly also.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
The first varmint I shot with a 22 center fire was a crow and a 222 rem.

It made the mistake of landing in a tree 10 feet above me..

The crow died very quick.


Back too the 458 it does kill Pdogs quickly also.

It kills everything else too.

It worked as designed in replacing old cartridges.

But as I mentioned, for me 2400 fps is minimum for these large calibers.

Saeed, I agree with you in the .40 calibers, but even the .458 Lott only generates about 2300 more or less. And the .458 Win. Mag. is around 2150. Frankly, I can't tell much difference between my .458 WM and my Lott in terms of recoil and the minor difference in velocity says why. But I think either one would do the job nicely, even though under 2400 fps.

100 fps is 68 mph, which is about as fast as we can throw a 500 grain bullet by hand

Just to add a bit...A PH purchased a 458 (M-70) while visiting state side. (about 30 yrs ago)

Chrono showed 1850 FPS with factory ammo !!!! What to do? Throat seemed outrageously long. I set back the barrel only one thread and velocioty jumped WAY up. With handloads he attained something close to advertised numbers.

USED A 458 'WIN MAG FOR SEVERALYEARS handloaded and was more than satisfied but I used the 458 Lott loaded down to 500 gr at 2150 FPS to 2200 FPS and suspect it was a tad better, but more importantly it shot at less preasure than a hot loaded 458
win. Seemed the best approach..the Lott at max or near max didn't impress me it, scared me!!