quote:

Originally posted by DWright:
JPK, The .45 Colt was a joke, which I figured anyone would figure out. I am well aware of the history the .375 H&H has. It is my favorite caliber period! The few that have used the heavy loaded .45-70s had the guides want them to leave the little lever guns there for their own use. But I'm sure you knew all about that, did'nt you.? I am beginning to wonder if you simply like to argue with people that do not hold your opinion. Or are you sincerely concerened for the .45-70 users safety? I thought that was why the guides had the stopping rifles. . . . And, no, I have never been Elephant hunting, but would love to do so. I do however have about 450 head of big game under my belt, so am no newby either. How bout you?

Yet again I prove that my sense of humor is limited.

I think a 45/70 would be a fun rifle for any one in bushveld Africa. Ranges are often pretty modest and maybe a good choice for following up on wounded leopards. But it is not an as yet proven buff regular. I think there is a bullet/velocity combo that might prove entirely successful for buff, maybe the Punch ~400gr bullet at max. I've been told by one fellow that it isn't a problem at 2000fps. I suspect that that bullet at that velocity might just prove capable for buff in any situation. The Punch has a flat point and that has proven a significant penetration enhancer for buff and elephants in my experience.

I think shooting elephants with a 45/70 is pure stupidity. Cows, bulls, makes no difference, pure stupidity.

I don't know how you define "big game" as it is defined very differently in different locales. For instance, using the African definition I'm familiar with, there is no big game in the Americas with the possible exceptions of brown and grizzly bear and jaguar, but using our local definition, one would include whitetail deer.

In so far as African game, I've shot a bit. For dangerous game, eleven elephants and four cape buffalo. I hope to up that ante with two more elephant bulls, another tuskless elephant cow, a hippo taken out of water and a leopard by May 15, plus some more plains game.

(FYI, plains game is a misnomer since the cover is thick and there are no plains where I'm heading, back to why the 45/70 would be a fun gun to hunt it with. Not that I'd advocate that as the rifle of choice for plains game, I'd advocate a scoped bolt for its versatality)

When it comes to arguing, well, I get tired of people with no friggin' experience shooting dangerous African Game spouting off about what works and what doesn't.

I dig most all of my bullets and I can tell you or anyone else that the Brits weren't wrong 100 years ago and not too much has changed that. But the flat nose copper or brass solids may tilt the equation in favor of the 45/70 where in the past it just didn't make the grade. They surely enhance the performance of the traditional cartridges or today's equivelents (like 416 Remington approx= 416 Rigby; 458wm approx= 450NE... 375H&H = 375H&H!) An even better route for the 45/70, imo, would be steel jacketed lead cored flat nose solids like the new 480gr and 500gr Hornaday solids, but a lighter one - maybe 410grs or 420grs - for the 45/70's limited case capacity. It would result in a shorter bullet than copper monos of equal weight and it would still have the flat nose.

JPK

Not to stir the pot but I was told a 45 Colt actually did take down an elephant. I will try to find the source...


EDIT-No luck on the actual 45 Colt-elephant story yet but here is some stuff to read. I am not advocating it, no need to jump on me:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_158_26/ai_86704793

quote:

Now we know with actual experimentation why it is big bore sixguns perform so well on large or dangerous animals including Cape buffalo, elephant, lion and the big bears of Alaska.

Cartridge Bullet Velocity Penetration

.45-70 530 gr. hardcast lead 1,550 fps 55"
.500 Linebaugh 495 gr. hardcast lead 1,270 fps 52"
.500 Nitro Express 570 gr. FMJ solid 2,000 fps 48"
.458 Win. Mag. 500 gr. FMJ solid 2,260 fps 47"
.475 Linebaugh 420 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,335 fps 47"
.454 Casull 360 gr. honded core 1,500 fps 45"
.45 Colt 350 gr. hardcast lead 1,400 fps 43"
.500 Linebaugh 480 gr. Keith 1,200 fps 41"
.475 Linebaugh 420 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,050 fps 40"
.500 Linebaugh 435 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,270 fps 38"
.45 Colt 300 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,180 fps 38"
.45 Colt 310 gr. Keith SWC lead 1,250 fps 36"
.500 Linebaugh 435 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,000 fps 34"
.44 Magnum 250 gr. Keith SWC lead 1,200 fps 27"
.480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP 1,350 fps 17"

454 casull did... an itty bitty young cow, side on shot... and if everything is PERFECT you can kill them with a 7.62x39,... but that don't make an ak an elephant rifle now, do it?

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
Not to stir the pot but I was told a 45 Colt actually did take down an elephant. I will try to find the source...


EDIT-No luck on the actual 45 Colt-elephant story yet but here is some stuff to read. I am not advocating it, no need to jump on me:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_158_26/ai_86704793

quote:

Now we know with actual experimentation why it is big bore sixguns perform so well on large or dangerous animals including Cape buffalo, elephant, lion and the big bears of Alaska.

Cartridge Bullet Velocity Penetration

.45-70 530 gr. hardcast lead 1,550 fps 55"
.500 Linebaugh 495 gr. hardcast lead 1,270 fps 52"
.500 Nitro Express 570 gr. FMJ solid 2,000 fps 48"
.458 Win. Mag. 500 gr. FMJ solid 2,260 fps 47"
.475 Linebaugh 420 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,335 fps 47"
.454 Casull 360 gr. honded core 1,500 fps 45"
.45 Colt 350 gr. hardcast lead 1,400 fps 43"
.500 Linebaugh 480 gr. Keith 1,200 fps 41"
.475 Linebaugh 420 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,050 fps 40"
.500 Linebaugh 435 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,270 fps 38"
.45 Colt 300 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,180 fps 38"
.45 Colt 310 gr. Keith SWC lead 1,250 fps 36"
.500 Linebaugh 435 gr. LBT SWC lead 1,000 fps 34"
.44 Magnum 250 gr. Keith SWC lead 1,200 fps 27"
.480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP 1,350 fps 17"

These test weren't in any medium that is remotely relevant. For elephant, the only medium that is relevant is elephant skulls.

Stunt hunting is still stunt hunting. You can discern a stunt hunt when the hunter's story begins with, "See, me and my trusty (fill in the blank here) killed this big ol' (fill in the blank here), and we did't need one of those expensive sarfari rifles to do it, cause the ol' (fill in the blank here) proved plenty enough."

Not a lot of video of the supposedly successful stunt hunts, wonder why?

JPK

JPK, with your last response to my ramblings, I would have to say. . . . . I can find no fault with it. Looks like we can be friends after all. I also get irratated with newbies telling me what is what, when their balls have not yet dropped as to experience on game. I congratulate you with your experience with Elephant and Buff. I must admit to being a little envious, as my hunting has been entirely here in the states. I was however fortunate enough to have been raised on a 80,000 acre ranch, and harvested most all the big game for the cowboy BBQs for many years. Elk, Bear, Deer, Hogs and the like. After which I had 3 ranches of my own loaded with game. I do admire someone that actually pays attention to results with actual field shooting and from results of harvesting game. But I get red faced myself when BS comes from armchair theorists. But when you calm down a bit, your logic is sound. Good hunting JPK!