Working through the logistics of the next protect. I was close to buying a pre-64 416 Hoffman in a Brown Precision stock, 21.5" bbl all coated. I still may, but, I've already got a 400W so bullets are on hand. A 416 would be a new caliber, and that means searching out bullets.

The 2 front runners are the 411 KDF on a 1909 Argentine that already has a mag bolt (its a 308 norma) or the 400 h&h on a win mod 70 classic currently a 375.

For anyone running either the H&H or KDF, what have been your experiences? Would you do it again? What real world performance have you seen? Ultimately I'm looking for a 400gr in the 2200-2300 fps rage from a short barrel

http://forums.accuratereloadin...511046032#5511046032

If you are looking at a wildcat, I think the 375HH necked up to .410” without any “Improvements” is a good one. all the 400 Karamojo. See link above

Bullets do seem an issue.
I don't have it in hand, but I did settle on the 400 H&H. I like the H&H cartridge and I liked the idea of pushing a 400 grain bullet. I went with the .400 over the 404 because dies were available from Kevin Weaver and the custom die folks took me they were two years out.

I find the lack of diversity in .411 bullets disappointing. The .423 seems to be much better represented.

I have committed to the 400 and so I will hope for a return of the 300 grain tsx as well as some 400 grain from maybe Hawk or some replacement of Woodleigh. I know Hornady has done some stuff in the past. I was very sorry to read that Woodleigh burned down.

I guess I'd be satisfied to plink with Hornady stuff and hunt with a tsx, maybe the Hawk and I do know at least one fellow in Alaska that crafts custom mono metal bullets so maybe I could hunt with a 400 grain tsx knock off.

Cutting Edge Bullets makes some fine solids and controlled fracturing nose bullets in .410”. I see the 400 as a great gun to shoot 300 grain 405 win bullets out of for most things and plinking. I have a soft spot for the 400. I like how cost effective a conversion of an existing 375 HH to a 400-375HH is. 400@ 2300 is all you need for DG and 300@ 2500 is not too shabby for large game on down.

Received replies to my email enquiry this morning.

From Redding, no custom dies until 2022 and from Barnes, no .411 300grain tsx until 2023.

I guess it's no big drama, but it appears I'll have another firearm standing in the rack I don't shoot. I have plenty of 9.3, .375 and .458 components but still, this does fizzle the anticipation some. I would of liked to thump a moose with a 400grain Woodleigh.

You could always find a cast bullet mold and cast up some bullets and then powder coat them. At the velocities you are looking at, it is doable with a powder coated bullet that fits the bore. For Moose a cast bullet would be more than enough to do the job.

Never say never, but I don't see myself casting bullets today.
I have seen the CEB's and I did see some North Fork solids. I would probably use those before cast.

I noticed some other custom bullet manufacturers out there and I may we'll just ask the Alaska custom bullet maker I know to turn me out some 300, 350 and 400 grain bullets to see what happens.

I would think that for me, having 200 or so premium bullets in my stock for hunting would be a lifetime supply. I'm going to resize some 375 H&H brass for normal shooting and I've ordered I think 50 custom and head stamp appropriate 400 H&H brass from Robeson Cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Never say never, but I don't see myself casting bullets today.
I have seen the CEB's and I did see some North Fork solids. I would probably use those before cast.

I noticed some other custom bullet manufacturers out there and I may we'll just ask the Alaska custom bullet maker I know to turn me out some 300, 350 and 400 grain bullets to see what happens.

I would think that for me, having 200 or so premium bullets in my stock for hunting would be a lifetime supply. I'm going to resize some 375 H&H brass for normal shooting and I've ordered I think 50 custom and head stamp appropriate 400 H&H brass from Robeson Cartridge.

Once you shoot the CEB safari raptor and it’s matching solid…you’ll comfortably hunt anything on the planet with them. Super accurate bullets as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I noticed some other custom bullet manufacturers out there and I may we'll just ask the Alaska custom bullet maker I know to turn me out some 300, 350 and 400 grain bullets to see what happens.

Who bought the Alaska custom bullet makers business? https://www.legacy.com/obituar...mielke&pid=196026938

quote:

Originally posted by Jgrabow6493:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I noticed some other custom bullet manufacturers out there and I may we'll just ask the Alaska custom bullet maker I know to turn me out some 300, 350 and 400 grain bullets to see what happens.

Who bought the Alaska custom bullet makers business? https://www.legacy.com/obituar...mielke&pid=196026938

I don't know. The fellow here that I know is turning out homemade tsx's like Saeed does.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Never say never, but I don't see myself casting bullets today.
I have seen the CEB's and I did see some North Fork solids. I would probably use those before cast.

I noticed some other custom bullet manufacturers out there and I may we'll just ask the Alaska custom bullet maker I know to turn me out some 300, 350 and 400 grain bullets to see what happens.

I would think that for me, having 200 or so premium bullets in my stock for hunting would be a lifetime supply. I'm going to resize some 375 H&H brass for normal shooting and I've ordered I think 50 custom and head stamp appropriate 400 H&H brass from Robeson Cartridge.

Once you shoot the CEB safari raptor and it’s matching solid…you’ll comfortably hunt anything on the planet with them. Super accurate bullets as well.

I believe you and I probably will. My narrow mind is just stuck on expanding and non fragmenting bullets like the tsx and lead core bonded bullets like the Woodleigh or nosler.

I did borrow a box or two of the North Fork for my .375 and was very impressed.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...511046032#5511046032

If you are looking at a wildcat, I think the 375HH necked up to .410” without any “Improvements” is a good one. all the 400 Karamojo. See link above

Or the same unimproved 375 H&H case necked up to .423 !

The 416 Rem or the 404 Jefferys meats your criteria and then some..???? all else is twaddle..

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...511046032#5511046032

If you are looking at a wildcat, I think the 375HH necked up to .410” without any “Improvements” is a good one. all the 400 Karamojo. See link above

Or the same unimproved 375 H&H case necked up to .423 !

Yes, as in my tag line

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...511046032#5511046032

If you are looking at a wildcat, I think the 375HH necked up to .410” without any “Improvements” is a good one. all the 400 Karamojo. See link above

Or the same unimproved 375 H&H case necked up to .423 !

Yes, as in my tag line

I'm very well aware of the 404-375

I made up a long necked “400 Belted 2.6”” based on the 300WinMag case that was smack dab in the middle of the Taylor/KDF for size and performance. No trouble getting 2350fps with 400grainers in a 21”Shilen barrel. I used LEE .416Taylor dies and made a bushing die for neck sizing.

The more I read about .400 cartridges, the more that I respect the Winchester 1895 and the .405 WCF cartridge, especially back when they were first available.

My Winchester 1895 TD .405 handles bullets from 210 grain, 300 grain, 360 grain North Forks, and 400 grain Hornady and Woodleighs.
One 300 grain NF CPS at 2250 fps demolished my first water buff and it hit the ground dead.
It can be a deer /Pronghorn rifle with 210 grain XTP, a kills all with 300 grain Hoarnady or handloads, and 400 grain Handloads for large and dangerous game.
I took my Cape Buff with a 400 grain Woodie at 2100 fps and an acquaintance has his 1895 .405 shooting 400 grain Woodies at 2200 fps as his buffalo rifle.
The rifle holds 4 in the mag and when hunting DG, I load another in the chamber.
With this performance so similar to the 450/400, a 400 grain NF FPS should do in a Pachyderm.
As I remember, Osa Johnson used her 1895 .405 to protect her photographer husband when he was photographing wild life in Africa and other exotic locations.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=osa+johnson&ia=web

PWS,

That is really cool! I like your die solution

I could be wrong but didn't Remington make there 416 Rem. ammo so that it could be fired in a 416 Hoffman?

Another wildcat alternative is the 411 Wells which is a 375 ultramag necked up to 411. I built this on a Columbia Mauser http://www.makenaridge.com/411.2.jpeg.
An easy 2500 fps with 4895 and a 260 Northfork. I'm working with RIP's suggested 4350 loads and CEB Safari Raptors for a hunt with CMS this coming summer. An easy round to fire form but I'm working with RCC to produce head stamped brass.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the .405 WCF makes a nice Double Rifle cartridge. My Simson Suhl .405 DR was regulated with Hornady 300 grain bullets at 2250 fps AND it also regulates 400 grain Woodies at 2076 fps.
So, I can shoot the same ammo in my 1895 .405 and .405 DR.

Have been shooting a 400H&H since 2011 and have shot numerous head of game big, little and Dangerous. The 400H&H uses a .411 dia Bullet and have used the .411 dia 400gr CEB Solids and 370gr Raptors with great Success... I have also shot Cow Elk with the .411 dia 300gr Barnes TSX. For what it is worth the .411 dia CEB Bullets were designed originally for the 400H&H.
Proper head stamped brass can be bought from Qual Cartridge and is easily made from 375H&H
Any questions about the 400H&H send me a PM

In a 40 caliber, I can't see any reason to shoot anything other than the 416 Rem. it has the same advantage as the 375 H&H and 458 Win. ammo available in every country, components are available especially in todays shortages...Kills as well as any 40 caliber or the 404 for that matter..Its close as you can get to the perfect 400...other than fun and games its the best choice, but to each his own is always a good reason for caliber choice...

I'll post this here before posting on the Classified section.

Barnes .411cal 300gr 'X'. These are the older design, 100 bullets. $90.00 shipped.
Woodleigh 405 Win .412 300 gr Weldcore RN SN unopened box, 50 bullets. $70.00

Click on the picture.

I;ll take them..

Ray I don't own a 416. I already own a 400 Whelen. So it's simple, I have bullets on hand. The barrel is already set aside, so I won't be doing a 416, it'll be a 400- something

Other than the 450/400, what cartridge uses .410 bullets.

I ended up with a box of 400 grain Swift A-Frames. They were in a stack of 400 grain .458’s. The label was facing opposite direction on this box. Surprise, did not notice until I opened the box and grabbed a bullet. Visually, a nicely portioned looking bullet.

You could use them in some of the .411 dia Rifles but they may not be stout enough for certain cartridges

There are several in the 410/411 range. .001" is not enough to cause too much concern if you work up.
400 Whelen, 400 H&H, 411 KDF are the big 3, with some 405 Win's depending on the bore, they could go anywhere from .407-.413

My first big bore rifle was a Mauser in 411 KDF. I remember shooting a solid through two 18"Dia Oak trees standing side by side. That was impressive to a big-bore newbie!

There is also the rare 400 Griffin and Howe. I talked to G&H about it and they were not even sure about the actual dimensions. I would be ecstatic if I could find an original case or gun to get the dimensions. From what I have seen it would be almost identical if you did a simple neck up of the 300 HH. The rounds I have seen pics of, it has a long neck with no shoulder on the 375 HH case. I imagined a necked up 400-300HH wildcat to mimic the original. The 375HH necked up to 400 I called the 400 Karamojo but I do like a long, parallel sided neck to use cast bullets. The 400-300HH needs a cool name if you don’t call it the 400G&H. I would want to commission G&H to make the rifle and get G&H to make a standard for the cartridge to have some stability and since there are so few made, the odds of using an original are pretty much non existent. G&H lost a lot of their records iirc and it would be nice to have an easy conversion of an existing 300HH and rebore it. If they would not be interested, I would just call it the 400-300HH or something related to the dark continent in it’s glory days of dangerous game hunting. 400 Kiboko will also suffice (Swahili for hippo). The 400 Karamojo or the 400 Kiboko should get 400@ 2300 fps.

Necking up the 300HH to .411 would give almost 3/4” of neck length.

How about this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Jgrabow6493:
How about this one.

What do you have there? Is that a posted G&H drawing?
I just can’t confirm the accuracy because even the G&H historian does not know.
Here is a pic of a round but I don’t know about the authenticity of it. Do you see the similarity of a necked up 300HH?

.400 Griffin to Howe

https://municion.org/producto/400-griffin-a-howe/

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by Jgrabow6493:
How about this one.

What do you have there? Is that a posted G&H drawing?
I just can’t confirm the accuracy because even the G&H historian does not know.
Here is a pic of a round but I don’t know about the authenticity of it. Do you see the similarity of a necked up 300HH?

Yes, I have seen that drawing but I don’t know if those dimensions are correct since there are so few rifles and this cartridges made and like I mentioned, even G&H can’t tell me the dimensions due to lost records. I requested to become a member to ask the person running the website a few questions.

Gents,
The day of the wildcatter has come and gone, nothing left but carbon copies with a different heading...fun and games at best but thats OK..