Found a well-used Winchester model 70 locally...they have been trying to sell for over a year at a $900 price tag. Green laminate/stainless (rusty) barrel.

Found this weekend that they are willing to do around $350 cash out the door for this gun just to get it moved off the shelf. What are my rechamber options with it? The rifle will need a new barrel more than likely.

I'm not really interested in another .458wm or .458Lott

You could go with a cartridge with slightly larger diameter, such as the 404 based ones but the M70 doesn't have enough size for the 416 based cases. additionally if it's the enclosed bolt face, the gunsmiths I know avoid machining it out like the plague. CRFs are easy in comparison.

I'll have to go by this week to see if it is a crf or not. I honestly wasn't interested in the rifle (wrong handed/rusty)..and hadn't held it in over a year. Once I heard the price on it on Saturday I started thinking about my options on a new chambering

I always liked the idea of a .425 express, I believe this would give you .404 ballistics easy and cheap. 358 norma would also be on my mind.

If its a non CRF its hardly worth the asking price, Those guns were the worst of Winchesters, and don't sell well in any caliber.
Adding a new $400 barrel to it (including installation) makes it a $850 rifle that you might get $550 for..Id pass..There are few "fixer uppers" in the gun world that even break even..

Good catch Ray, I will check this week and see what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If its a non CRF its hardly worth the asking price, Those guns were the worst of Winchesters, and don't sell well in any caliber.
Adding a new $400 barrel to it (including installation) makes it a $850 rifle that you might get $550 for..Id pass..There are few "fixer uppers" in the gun world that even break even..

Hmmm.... Ray I know you don't like any Winchester m70 other than a pre 64 but they sold MANY more post 64's by a long shot than the older ones.

I like a crf action as well as anyone but I've grown to like very much my 1965 m70 .338, ugly stamped checkering and all. Of course I only paid $200 for it from a guy who hunted all over with it.

The push feed M70 is a damn sight better than a Remington.

I don't believe they sold better than the pre 64s, they did put Winchester into bank ruptsy more than once, and over the years they finally bit the bullets and returned to CFR to get back in business....

A Win. or a Rem push feed in a DG rifle, its all the same to me, I don't see any difference except the 700s shot better on average..

I kinda like the Rem 722 and 721 to play with in smaller calibers..

I wouldn't own a pushfeed, and that's my option, to each his own, we have that choice.

you know what, Finn didn't have trouble with a PF mod70 --

frankly, i'd seriously consider buying it and taking some CLR to the barrel, and shooting it --- for 350, the action will sell, every day, for that alone.. yeah, a PF ..

if the chamber is ruined, i'd do the same, but run a 458 AR reamer into the cleaned up, rust removed, chamber ...

i've had more than one "crawfish hole" milsurp that shot better than I could

At one time Finn had a push feed 458, but his old mod. 70 was a pre 64 375 H&H and later he found a pre 64 .458, as I recall he kept both of the pre 64s or at least he had them last time I talked to him prior to his death.

and i've shot his 375 ... but yeah, he had no complaints about the pushfeed

264 Win Mag
270 weatherby Mag
7mm Remington Mag
7mm Weatherby Mag
7 STW
7mm Remington Ultra Mag
300 H & H
300 Winchester Mag
300 Weatherby Mag
300 RUM
303 Brit
8mm Remington Mag
338 Winchester Mag
340 Weatherby Mag
338 RUM
375 H & H
375 Weatherby
375 RUM
416 Remington Mag
458 Winchester Mag
458 Lott



Do these all use the same bolt face? (easy barrel swap)...just in case

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
The push feed M70 is a damn sight better than a Remington.

Snort!

.

It is a push feed rifle, Went and looked at it tonight. (In order to keep the thread fresh)

The gun isn't stainless...but the blueing is so worn on the gun it looks this way. I've never seen one to this extent. Rust around the edges, I think the stock wasn't the original because all of the screws were backed out and loose. Barrel looked to be around 20 or 22"

A real pos.

yep .. stainless vs wornout POS alters my comments -- run, don't walk

The Mod 70 chambered for the 458 Win Mag is a short action, with a magnum bolt face, and if a PF rifle, which I wouldn't have in any case, but if CRF To use the action I would re-barrel it and chamber it for 338 Win Mag and be done with it and use it for bear and elk hunting in Alaska or Canada.

..................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
The push feed M70 is a damn sight better than a Remington.

Snort!

.

What do you call a Rem 700 that will only shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards? Winchester Match Grade ...

I have a couple Winchesters that will beat that by a considerable margin and a Remington that won't. I for one have never found one brand being more accurate than other across the board. Individual rifles yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I have a couple Winchesters that will beat that by a considerable margin and a Remington that won't. I for one have never found one brand being more accurate than other across the board. Individual rifles yes.

savage 11/110 rifles, across the board, are more accurate than most, and have been for decades --

U G L Y

but accurate

Is the bore OK? At $350 it could still be a fun gun if left chambered for .458. Maybe get it coated with one of the modern coatings. But as a donor action its not worth it, you could get an FN mauser action for that.

Bore looked good...amazing. Wonder if it sat behind the seat of a pick up for many years or how it came to be in this condition. I think someone's grandson got into grandpa's safe and pawned it for drug money.

What causes a rifle to lose its blueing like that? Barrel, action, bolt, etc. I guess I baby my guns too much because they all look new.

I think at some point the owner was embarrased about it because when it was traded in, the whole barrel had electrical tape on it. The mgr at the store told me it took him a while to get it all off.

If it gets down below $300 it might be a fun "let you borrow" rifle. Throw a VXhog 1-4 scope on it and shoot the factory 510gr ammo for Tx whitetails.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I have a couple Winchesters that will beat that by a considerable margin and a Remington that won't. I for one have never found one brand being more accurate than other across the board. Individual rifles yes.

savage 11/110 rifles, across the board, are more accurate than most, and have been for decades --

U G L Y

but accurate

In terms of accuracy, I would rate the them this way:

Savage
X Bolt
Rem
Win

Just my opinion. Shot one of my 700 custom jobs (Shilen bbl, Mac stock) today prone with a bipod. Three shots went into 1 inch - at 500 yards. Shot twice with my X Bolt at 500 yards sitting w/bipod and popped two shots on top of each other.

Back before custom actions ruled the day, the 700 dominated in competition, although Carmichael noted the PF 70 in 300 WM was a popular choice for 1000 yard shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
I have a couple Winchesters that will beat that by a considerable margin and a Remington that won't. I for one have never found one brand being more accurate than other across the board. Individual rifles yes.

savage 11/110 rifles, across the board, are more accurate than most, and have been for decades --

U G L Y

but accurate

In terms of accuracy, I would rate the them this way:

Savage
X Bolt
Rem
Win

Just my opinion. Shot one of my 700 custom jobs (Shilen bbl, Mac stock) today prone with a bipod. Three shots went into 1 inch - at 500 yards. Shot twice with my X Bolt at 500 yards sitting w/bipod and popped two shots on top of each other.

Back before custom actions ruled the day, the 700 dominated in competition, although Carmichael noted the PF 70 in 300 WM was a popular choice for 1000 yard shooting.

Well this drifting way off topic but I would rate the Tikka above anything on your list.

As a certifiable "Gun Nut" if I had a pre 64 in .458 win that needed to re-chambered and the barrel was in good shape I would look seriously at the 458 African.

If you are talking about the 458 Express 3" then it may be a little long for the already cramped win 70 action IMO.

The mag box can barely accommadate the max COL of 3.6" for the 458 Lott, even less so with flat nosed bullet profiles.

The round is perfect for a CZ magnum action though. IIRC they designed it to take advantage of the spacious Brno/CZ mag boxes, and just rechambered those rifles.

--- the 458 AccRel totally cleans up a 458 winmag or lott chamber -- just saying ... and will get you 500gr over 2300fps easily -- with reasonable brass available in the form of rum cases

Pierre van der Walt's book
African Dangerous Game Cartridges
pg 345
COL 3.40
500grn Bullet 2325 fps

Oh. I was mistakened then. Thought you meant this one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_Express

It was the first hit on google search. Never heard of the other one.

yep -- its a grand round, requires specialty brass - and a good deal of action work to make feed -- on the other hand, the 458 accrel is 112 gr of water (1 gr more, like that matters) but 0.05 longer than a winmag, and, frankly, its a rechamber in a 458 winmag or lott, generally nil feeding changes.. bang, bob's your uncle

If for any reason I was going to rechamber my 458 Winchester. It would be to 458 AR.
Still hold 3 down in my Ruger mag box . And easily push 350 gr TSX up well over 2600 fps. Kindof a brown bear hunters dream come true.

But as to the OPs issue. Avoid it like the plauge.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
The push feed M70 is a damn sight better than a Remington.

Snort!

.

What do you call a Rem 700 that will only shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards? Winchester Match Grade ...

Yeah, CRF M-70s don't shoot well.......

338 Edge




7.5 lb with scope 300 WSM......





Pre 64 FWT 30-06......



416 Rem

Comparing one gun manufacturer to another other than what feels best and suits your eye is ridiculas...

Rifles are individuals some shoot bad, some fair, some good, some excellent, some out of this world..Some have bad runs, then good runs, usually the batch of barrels.

You will only know when you shoot them..Today the difference out of the box is usually very little between any of them..

My favorites lately have been the Ruger African model and the RSI 77 models, man they shoot well so far. but that means Ive been lucky perhaps, don't know??? Rem 700 seem to shoot great most of the time; Savage is getting good reviews; I have great accuracy with Kimbers but know some that have not...Ive had lots of Savage 99s that shot great and some were phenominal when some profess terrible accuracy..

I don't go with recommendations, I buy one I like, that feels right, looks right to me and roll the dice..Thats what everyone does, just some don't know it and believe what they profess.

IMO, barrels are the heart of a rifle, good barrels shoot good, bad barrels don't..Ruger had these growing pains, but corrected it some time back...

All the rifles I build have Lothar Walthar barrels, Ive used most barrels, but I like Lw and Douglas the best..Ive never had a LW barrel that wouldn't shoot a half inch..so I use them.

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
What causes a rifle to lose its blueing like that? Barrel, action, bolt, etc. I guess I baby my guns too much because they all look new.

I think at some point the owner was embarrased about it because when it was traded in, the whole barrel had electrical tape on it. The mgr at the store told me it took him a while to get it all off.

If it gets down below $300 it might be a fun "let you borrow" rifle. Throw a VXhog 1-4 scope on it and shoot the factory 510gr ammo for Tx whitetails.

Hard work and lots of use makes it look this way.

If the insides (chamber and bore) look ok start shooting it and enjoy. Or fix it up and make it what you want.