quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
500N,

I have recovered many .458" 500gr Woodleigh solids that traversed only the relatively easy on the bullet soft tissue. They all have the lead tit protruding. I don't believe the extrusion is the result of the bullet striking or traversing game, but rather the result of swaging and engraving to accomodate the lands.

Likewise for the fewer number of 500gr .474" Woodleighs I have recovered, but the vent at the base of the case is larger in diameter, so the protrusion is wider and shorter. So it is not as obvious, and often uniform enough for the bullet to stand on, without obvious leaning.

JPK

JPK

Yes, you are right, lead protruding is also the result of "but rather the result of swaging and engraving to accomodate the lands"

DePending on how tight a bore is determines how much lead is pushed out.

I also believe SOME lead protrudes after impact with the target / animal but yours is the better reason. Just my HO.

Imagine the OSR if you had a sealed base on a FMJ !!!!!!

500N, 465H&H

Well, really, 500N and I are both right. The swaging and engraving only causes a cetrtain amount of extrusion, which would be nearly uniform for bullets immeadiately after they leave the bores.

But as you, 465H&H, point out, extrusion isn't uniform in recovered bullets, though it has been for bullets I recovered from soft tatrgets, at least uniform to the eye. As you, 500N, correctly point out, there is also additional extrusion from striking hard surfaces, even to the point of squirting a fair bit of the core out, or from flattening or riveting.

465H&H,

I will find a photo and indicate where the bullet struck, perhaps I have mislabeled the bone structure there.

JPK

You meant, of course, uniform on entering, not exiting the bore. There's no positive pressure on exiting, rather on entering the bore through the throat and engaging the rifling.

Its a small matter, but I've also heard persons say that a bullet keeps going FASTER the first couple feete out of the muzzle, which is equally as silly.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
You meant, of course, uniform on entering, not exiting the bore. There's no positive pressure on exiting, rather on entering the bore through the throat and engaging the rifling.

Its a small matter, but I've also heard persons say that a bullet keeps going FASTER the first couple feete out of the muzzle, which is equally as silly.

Yes, I too have had occasions where someone tells me that the bullet or shot load accelerates "as it leaves the confines and friction of the barrel" and for other supposed reasons. A common one is that the muzzle blast is equal to a rocket motor.

Similar the the contention that "the bullet doesn't start to drop until 100ys, or XXXyds down range...", confusing trajectory and gravity. Sometimes, "the bullet is going so fast that it rises after it leaves the muzzle,,," Again confusing trajectory and gravity.

But here, no, I meant that the tit extruded when the bullets swage and engrave is nearly uniform between bullets on exit from the muzzle.

The tit is formed when the bullet enters the bore through the throat and engages the rifling, and perhaps some small additional amount of core is extruded if the barrel has a tighter spot down its length. And that is nearly the same for all similar bullets fired through the barrel. The Woodleighs do not vary much, so the tit formed is nearly uniform.

The bullet does not rebound to its former shape on exit from the muzzle, and so the tit remains. And it is nearly uniform between (the same Woodleigh) bullets immeadiately after exit from the muzzle.

JPK

465H&H,

Geez, photos of elephant skulls are like cops, you run into them everywhere, but you can't find one when you need one.

Try this link:
http://www.cybertorpedo.com/af...ephant_part01_03.htm

About 2/3 or 3/4 down there is a side by side presentation of an elephant skull in profile and a photo of an elephant head, skin, etc, on.

You will see on the depiction of the skull that the ear hole is highlighted with a red dot, and a flat area on the skull below, and extending to the front of the ear hole and well beyond the rear of the ear hole is highlighted with a green dot. My bullet struck the bull about half way from the center of the green dot and the outside border, toward 10:00 or 11:00.

The legend under the photo on the right labels the area on the skull highlighted with the green dot as part of the zygomatic arch. I agree with the legend, do you?

I believe that the area just to the front of the green dot on the skull represents the widest point of the arch, generally visible from the front of the elephant if he is looking at you.

JPK

Sorry but the photo doesn't label the green dot as part of the zygomatic arch. It is listed as the position of the earhole and that is correct. THe bone you see protruding behind the green dot is the base of the skull and connects to the occipital condial. The round bone at the back of the skull that the axis and atlas connects to on the skull. I can see how this photo can fool you as all of the zygomatic arch and occiptal ridge have been cut away.

If you have a copy of Bill Stewarts book look at the picture of the skull on page 183. I think that will clarify things for you.

CHEERS!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Sorry but the photo doesn't label the green dot as part of the zygomatic arch. It is listed as the position of the earhole and that is correct. THe bone you see protruding behind the green dot is the base of the skull and connects to the occipital condial. The round bone at the back of the skull that the axis and atlas connects to on the skull. I can see how this photo can fool you as all of the zygomatic arch and occiptal ridge have been cut away.

If you have a copy of Bill Stewarts book look at the picture of the skull on page 183. I think that will clarify things for you.

CHEERS!

465H&H

465H&H,

You looked at the wrong depiction of the skull. The one I was refering to is not cut away, and it is adjacent to the photo of a live elephant's head.

Scroll down to the next side by side presentation, that is the one with the depiction of the whole skull on the left and the photo of the live elephant's head on the right.

On that depiction of the skull, you will find the green dot covering the flat bone at the end of the arch which the legend labels as part of the zygomatic arch.

JPK

here you go Johnny...
always willing to help those baffled by technology

Thank you for posting the image I was referring to.

Computers and I don't get along all that well.

And I have to ask my ten year old son to resest the remote or tv when they get out of sinc too.

JPK

quote:

I don't believe the extrusion is the result of the bullet striking or traversing game, but rather the result of swaging and engraving to accomodate the lands.

Ya have to push a ten pound bag of poop down a nine pound hole; the lead has gotta go somewhere.

True, and it takes about 3600psi to make the lead go somewhere. The lead core also tries to become shorter because pressure from behind has to overcome the inertia of the bullet. However, it cannot become shorter because, to do so, it would have to become a larger diameter. Barrel wall pressure prevents it from expanding much radially. A lead core bullet only bulges the barrel by about 40 micron as it travels down the bore.

Bolt rifles are ok with this bulging but it takes it's toll on a fair number of doubles.

Gerard, how are you coming with your US distribution? You haven't talked me into shooting them in my double yet but I want to try some of your HV bullets in some of my bolt guns.

Hi Dave,
Easiest is to contact Gina and Anthony and ask them to keep you posted. They are keeping a list of people to contact when they open the doors.

Here is a 4 shot group I shot today with the Ruger lott I took to africa in 2008 and 75 gr H4895 and 550gr Woodleigh RNSP.If this rifle is going to shoot them this good then it deserves to be taken on my Makuti buff hunt,this fall.[URL= ]100yds off the bench[/URL]