Just found these cruis'n Nosler's site.
Nosler Solids

Yea Rusty, saw the little buggers myself, look like they might turn out to be some good solids. If I remember correctly the price wasn't bad either.

I thought they were or going to be banded, like everyone elses.

The Noslers look like a lot of (hard) brass to get pushed in by the rifling to go somewhere (?).

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I thought they were or going to be banded, like everyone elses.

The Noslers look like a lot of (hard) brass to get pushed in by the rifling to go somewhere (?).

+1 ,

I also hope those pictures are distorted as that 500 grain 458 bullet looks to be about 4.5 diameters long. I don't think that the 458 Win mag could handle a 2" long solid to well.

quote:

the price wasn't bad either

Jeez, these are over 2 bucks a pop.
Peter.

Macifej should sell his "Shark fin" banded solid to them....or just keep the market cornered

Sharkee design is patented and I ain't gonna sell it to nobody! Its mine mine mine!!

Mac...

What is next... A cup point? Powdered tungsten cores?

Any pics of the 666 devilshark bullet?

I love the sharkee bullets!

quote:

What is next... A cup point? Powdered tungsten cores?

Any pics of the 666 devilshark bullet?

I love the sharkee bullets!

No, no, no, & thanks.

Still waiting for the Gentlemen at BATFE to finish their work and then we're off to the races, full speed ahead. damn the torpedoes, etc.

+1 ,

I also hope those pictures are distorted as that 500 grain 458 bullet looks to be about 4.5 diameters long. I don't think that the 458 Win mag could handle a 2" long solid to well.[/QUOTE]

The site list the O.A.L on the 458 as 1.530"

Attached are pics of the 500 grain .458 solid from Nosler (far right).



They are shown next to 450 GS, 450 NF, 450 Barnes FN, 465 TCCI and A-Square.



I dont believer they are any longer than a 500 grain Barnes FN.

Over 1.5 inches though and I use a 1-12 twist in 450 Dakota for 2,400 revolutions per second.

Andy

More Meplat please...

Must be Aluminum Bronze or something very light.....

My 2C.

Why dont they do like the DARPA thing and open the design up to the "Amateurs" so we can use our collective power to get the desired bullet made!

I guess they wont so we have nimble niche operators like Macifej to fill the gap.

Support your local Bulletsmith!

The Nosler is 1.531 inches long.

How long is the 500 grain S & H of Macifej???

The 500 grain A-Square RN is 1.550.

A 500grain Barnes X is 1.630.

You guys should look before you leap! (Or post that it's to long).

Andy

It's too long if you say so....

A few things to consider:

1) A 3.5 x caliber cylinder weighs

C145 Copper 650 Grains
C360 Brass 620 Grains
C624 Bronze 540 Grains

2) Major factors in shifting weight and balance

Location of the cannelure - .800" is best for .458"

Nose shape - short nose = low BC and higher weight

Surface area - no grooves = more weight

What I think is best:

.341 SD

.250 BC

.800" nose length

1.665" overall length

Nosler has a lot to learn about designing solid bullets.

quote:

500grains

Nosler has a lot to learn about designing solid bullets.

The cannelure is in the wrong place for a 450 Dakota.

It DOES feed reliably in anything, including a std BRNO 602 or CZ 550.

Staff told me it was designed and made by a former Rockwell Arsenal ballistics engineer, which may explain the price. (They are buying from a sub-contractor).

Design goals were to have similar powder charge and pressure as thier .458, .416 and .375 partitions. And to not "lead" the bore.

It is more truncated than it appears in top down photo due to blurring from low shutter speed.

I did not know that Macifej made a .458. It is not available on his web site.

I personally think ALL the 500 grain monolithics are too long!

Has anyone here shot this bullet besides me?

Andy

There's a lot of stuff that's not on my site but I'll update it soon.

I have a .458 FN that is shorter but it's made from exotic material (expensive and tough to machine).

IMHO a 450 Mono Metal solid brings the 458 Win Mag to the best that it can be with a solid. I prefer the nose profifle to be something like this.





Guess where this picture and bullet design came from?

The cup point will be sorely missed by this old curmudgeon, as will the Bridger flat nose solids..but the GS Customs flat nose solid is the creame de creame of todays solids..

I think Nosler has been in the business long enough to know how to make a bullet and I would bet dollars to donuts that solid works just fine. Time will tell however...

What if there was a .458 solid, .916" long (cannelure half way, .450 nose for .45-70 while maintaining 1 caliber seating depth) and .366 meplat. Now the interesting part...600 grains. What do you think?

I think it wouldn't be of much use. Too short to load into anything other than a 45-70 type or pistol case. Will have poor flight characteristics due to it's shortness. That kind of weight in such a small package would have to be a tungsten rod with a thin jacket swaged on. Been done many times and it's expensive to get it done right. Figure $20 per bullet for something real.

I think nothing wrong with loading into any case to a shorter OAL. The seating depth would allow a slight increase in powder capacity but you don't need the round to reach listed max OAL to be suitable. The ogive is designed not to differ from standard hard-cast bullets, and many of them are 1" long and fly great. Beartooth 425 Piledriver (basics behind the design) shoots very well in my guns, as did the Speer AGS (which is an inch in length, or possibly shorter). Actually, the shorter the bullet, and nose, the more stable durring impact and penitration. Garrett designed his 540 around this concept, albeit a little longer, and they are amazingly stable and accurate. Macifej, please know I'm not trying to argue, just working out the details for a new bullet design I'm getting built.

As for it's construction. It is a cast tungsten alloy of 18 grams per CC. (pure Tungsten would be better at 19.3, but way too expensive to get machined) with an electoless plated bronze coating of 8 thousanths. It is then turned and banded to allow the bronze to flow and reduce pressures. It's been a rough ride in R&D, but I have prototypes being finished shortly. Not sure about the price, but I might be able to get 'em down to as little as $5 each.

Yes, it was built for the .45-70, but it's superior design and strength would be great for any straight-walled cartridge like the .458 WM or Lott.

What would you do different? I hold your advice in the highest regard (Macifej). I can't really make it much longer without making it heavier or reducing the meplat (79% as per Garrett and jwp475) and the smaller I make the core, the more plating is needed and that really increases cost. Besides, it would be a great bullet for any cartridge lacking a little in power (450 Marlin comes to mind).

I can get the bullet to over 1500fps in a 45-70, and that lends to it's excellent penitration (theorized from research by Randy Garrett, jwp475 and numerous results from the Linebaugh seminar). I can only wait for the finished results to start testing, and then I can have some true results...but I would like to make sure it's the best possible design before going all out. Thanks.

I wouldn't let anyone slow you up if it's something you wanna make and try to sell. I think you'll be in for some frustrating trial and error testing but there's nothing unreasonable about what you're doing. Keep in mind that Speer started out selling the AGS for about $5.00 per bullet and couldn't give em away at the end. I think they were too expensive and too far ahead of the market. It was and is a great bullet but it was a machined product at that price. You may have a hard time convincing large numbers of people to pay $5.00 or more for a plated bullet with unknown metallurgy. You'll also need to do some serious testing in big capacity cases as your typical 45-70 shooter is not looking to launch a 600 grain tunsten rod at Bambi or Porky.

Carry on I say and see what you can do!

10-4. Thanks.

The Nosler and the Barnes RN-FN are obviously designed for a bolt action rifle.

And not just a bolt action but one with an unmodified feed ramp, follower, and extractor.



I dont see why thats a bad thing.

(Pictured North Fork FN).

Reliability is THE single most important thing in a DGR rifle and ammunition!!!!!

The very large meplats are for double rifles only.

That leaves out most of us.

Andy

Can't speak to your experience with FN's in your rifles but the fat Meplat FN's we are making are absolutely 100% reliable in the feeding department. To date I've had one customer who had an issue and he identified the (non-ammunition) problem and the rifle feeds correectly from what he has relayed to me.

I wouldn't want to try to convert the unconvertable but perhaps you should try them out in a thorough test session before you limit your available bullet types in bolt guns.

There are lot's of guys here on AR using various makes of big meplet FN's in their respective bolt rifles.

speaking from experience, I can state that Macifej's solids are well thought out; for weight and length, and bearing surface, and nose profile. They feed great in my 505 Gibbs, my 550 Gibbs, and I expect the same great results from the prototypes he is sending me for testing in my CZ 450 Dakota. I would love to get him interested enough to do a prototype for my 416 Rigby. He is reasonably priced, and the penetration depth and integrity of the bullet shape at speeds up to 2500fps in my rifles is amazing. I had trouble catching bullets in anything except sand bags. RIP is doing the test work with his .395 and reports the same superb terminal performance.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Posted by Will on the "Solid" thread.

Posted 19 May 2008 02:48

"If you can get the FNS to feed in your bolt action that is fine, if they REALLY feed under all circumstances.

"The real calling for FNS is in the big NE cases where bullet voume is irrelevant and for double (or single shot) rifles where feeding is not an issue."

end of quote.

Macifej,

I have tried most of the available FN solids. In three rifles. Probably shot 50-100 each of 400, 450 and 500 Barnes RN and 450 and 500 FN. Three generations of 450 NF FN. 450 GS. 465 TCCI and A Square RN. 500 Kodiak bonded FN. 500 Woodleigh and Hornady RN. 500 Nosler FN.

Shot elephant w TCCI and NF.

Would be willing to try yours if available.

Rich, would you do me a favor and let me know the length and cost of those 450 grain FN solids when you get them? As you know I shoot a 450 Dakota on a CZ action.

The modified CZ follower AHR sent me REALLY helped the GS and NF to feed reliably in my rifle.

Thanks, Andy

Will get you a box shortly.

PM your shipping address and tel. # and I'll get you in the loop.