I've been thinking there's a market niche for a big bore cartridge one step above the .35 Whelen/9.3x62 group, and with similar characteristics. I.e. good terminal performance to recoil ratio, good bullet selection, available brass, etc.

Folks are talking about the inevitable .416 Ruger, but I expect it will end up being a ".416 Taylor +P", in other words a full throttle affair. So I calculated a few recoil numbers for reduced loads for a .416 Taylor/RM kind of thing;

335 grain cast @ 2000 fps = 28 ft-lb
350 grain TSX @ 2500 fps = 45 ft-lb
400 grain solid @ 2200 fps = 47 ft-lb

all assuming a 10 lb rifle and complete WAGs for the charge weights. These numbers are just a bit more than for a 10 lb .375. Won't have as flat a trajectory as a .375, and definitely not the bullet selection; but if one has a .35 or 9.3, one's medium ought to take care of non-DG out to longer ranges.

Is anybody out there loading their .416 to these kind of loads?

Will .416 softpoints perform well at lower impact velocities, say 1800-2200 fps?

In a bolt rifle take a look at the 400 H&H.

In a double or single dhot the 450/400 3".

........My favorite 416 Taylor load is a 350 gr bullet @ 2450 fps.,., easy to shoot out of an 8 1/2 # rifle ...., Your calculations are a bit off .,. If the 416 Ruger will do 2500 fps w/350 gr bullet it will do 2400 fps with a 400 gr bullet ...but thats ok ..,.,The 10 lb rifle is about a pound too heavy mayby a pound and a half.,.,.,.,IMHumbleopinion ..

I typically move a 350 gr X or TSX at 2700 from the Rigby. Very effective but would be exciting in a light rifle.

Just starting to work with a .416 Aagaard ... could yield 2300 fps with a 350 gr bullet from a 21" barrel.

The Aagaard is a .376 Steyr opened up to .416 and fireformed to improve the shoulder. Is a Z-Hat cartridge.

Rifle is built on a commercial FN Mauser action. Weighs 8 pounds including the scope. Feeds fine and holds 4 without magazine mods. Is a bit "bright" to shoot but not too bad. Should be a very portable .416 without the large action.

When I started having these impure thoughts, the .404 and the .450/400 came to mind, but currently both are pretty obscure and bullet selection is thin. Plus I wanted to keep the 404 zombies out of the picture, you know how they are...

I used a 10 lb rifle as a baseline because I had previously calculated recoil for the .375 using 10 lb. It would be nice to have a 9 lb rifle, but that's what the .35W/9.3x62 would be for.

Gumboot, I don't think you understand where I'm going with this. The idea was not to have max loads at each bullet weight, the idea was to have .375-like recoil energy at big-bore bullet weights. So drop the charge weight and velocity until the recoil energy hits, say, 45 ft-lb. I figure a 400 grain solid or A-Frame is a rather specialized load for thick-skinned prey, not something one would sling at an elk across a canyon. So dialing back on the velocity would seem reasonable.

quote:

Originally posted by CouchTater:
the .404 and the .450/400 came to mind, but currently both are pretty obscure and bullet selection is thin.

No, neither are obscure and bullet selection is excellent for both. I couldn't care less about having a dozen different bullets to choose from when there will usually be only one or two that I would even consider risking a hunt on anyway. You only need one good bullet, which the TSX isn't.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I am loading my 400 Whelen (Improved) to those velocities, except that the 400 grain solid is 2100 fps. 2200 fps for 400 grains would be a stretch in my rifle.

The 400 Whelen is underappreciated.

Garrett

quote:

Originally posted by N. Garrett:
I am loading my 400 Whelen (Improved) to those velocities, except that the 400 grain solid is 2100 fps. 2200 fps for 400 grains would be a stretch in my rifle.

The 400 Whelen is underappreciated.

Garrett

too true!

N.Garrett the 411 only needs 355 grains to get to .3 S.D.

400 softs and 350 gr flat nose solids seems great.

VIVA 400 Whelen!

My 416s and 404s have all weighed in at 9 to 9.5 lbs depending on wood density I suppose..never had any problems..

I think the answer is to load them down or up to where you want them and let it go at that..

Your spending way too much time on the couch Tater!

......Lite should / could be Light ..8-9 lbs ...A 350 gr 416 bullet @ 2450 fps is a pretty ideal load and isn,t to much in the recoil department ...

I have a Ruger 77 mkII short action that was converted to a .416 using a blown-out .348 Winchester case with the rim trimmed. It is almost exactly like a WSM case ( I think a WSM reamer would cleam up the thousandth of an inch or so right at the base of the chamber?)... anyway... I get 2300 f.p.s. out of a 22" barrel with the old (copper?) Hornady 400 grain solids. The gun weighs 8lbs, 3oz with a 1x4 Leupold. It has a muzzle brake, but I've never unscrewed the cap and put it on as it isn't needed. It has a Limbsaver recoil pad, btw.

The only problem with the gun is that no matter how you try, one in the chamber and two in the magazine is all that it holds. My seventeen year-old daughter shoots it with no problems.

I think I'm going to get a WSM magazine from Ruger and see if I can get the third round in it. I've got a local gunsmith who is good with reworking synthetic stocks, so the fit won't be a problem, I hope! I probably ought to go ahead and ream out the chamber to .416 WSM so brass will be easy to get?

I've taken the rifle to Africa a couple of times as a back up on DG hunts, and find myself hunting with it after the elephant or buff is down because it is so light.

I reckon that a 400 grain bullet at 2300 f.p.s. will kill about anything?

.........Judge G ., is your lite 416 a HESAM .,. I corrosponded with that guy some and never could get things finalized ,,,Decided on a Taylor instead , But now with better availability of brass it is a very realistic option ...What contour and make is the barrel ...Thanks

I'm not smart enough to know the taper number? It's a very slight one though. I'll try to get a picture of it before long and send it to you.

And yes, my rifle was the "test bed" for the .416 HESAM. All the loading data came from it.

I have 10 lb 416 taylor 25 inch barrel. I get 2450 with 350 gr bullets and a case full of IMR 4064. I get 100fps faster with 4064 then with Reloader15. I personaly wouldn't want it much lighter. Hangs really well for off hand shots doesn't pound your shoulder.

,,,,,,I was never able to get good velocities from my 416 Taylors with RL 15 either but some people seem to ...,.,Thanks for the reply Judge G .

Suggest that you start reading the Speer reloading manual with the 416 Remington load data for a slow(er) load to perform in you selected speeds.
Sincerely,

A couple years ago I had an 8lb 416 taylo built on a ruger mk11 action with a mcmillan synthetic.
it loved the 350gr speer@ 2450-2475fps with 77grs IMR 4320, and the 300gr X@ 2650 with IMR3031. It would also shoot the 400gr hornady well with 74grs IMR 4320@ 2360fps.I like the taylor alot and I am considering building another one in stainless as a moose/grizz rifle rifle.

......My loads with the Taylor were 74 gr 4320 gave me 2450 fps with the 350 gr bullets and 70.5 gr 4320 ,,2300 w/ 400 gr bullets ....71.5 was MAX in my rifles ....

Hey, its 2007 almost 2008!

The 416/375 Ruger is the ultimate any way you cut it, it can actually beat the 416 Rem but not by much, but it does all this on a std action, has no offending belt (), run a 375 case into a 416/375 Ruger die and presto, instant 416/375 Ruger..I am on my second one, and a 404/375 is on the table. I am told if you want custom bottom metal in drop box or otherwise then the .338 box will work. My .404/375 will be a drop box custom rifle and I will make that one for myself, maybe.