I think that's worth further consideration.

For starters, what about those who wish for his success? What kind of people are they and what is the basis for their wish?

Here's the quote from another thread that is the starter for this topic: Note, I have edited it by leaving out part, but the original meanings of both sides pertaining to this topic remain intact.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Philip A.:


It's amusing to see how much "sure and certain" info is circulating and is regurgitated by those who have no other wish than the failure of a man they hate, even if this ultimately means the failure of their own country....

Sensible people should think farther than that.

But then, that's exactly why the US sank to real lows of madness in the last decades: lack of sensible people, and braying fools allowed to take center stage.

The "sure and certain" info I've seen has been spewed by the O.J. and regurgitated.

And when an EVIDENTLY so-deemed braying fool is hired and allowed and praised for his singular desire for center stage, the desire for his failure seems reasonable and also for those who put him there and those who amplify his agenda, for the sake of and well-being of the country and the world.

Wishing for humility when facing hubris of the O.J.'s magnitude is a waste of time.

You mention: "those who have no other wish than the failure of a man they hate, even if this ultimately means the failure of their own country...."

You got something twisted. It's not about wishing for his failure, nor about hate. It's about the recognition that he in particular being in the official position he's in means our own country has already failed simply because he's there. If there's any wishing going on, it's the wish we'll be okay despite Trumpism.

Concerning those who are wishing for his success:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...KJX?ocid=socialshare

'Biblical prophecy': Christian nationalists pushing Trump to 'usher in the End Times'
Opinion by Alex Henderson • 9h •
3 min read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...0RR?ocid=socialshare

Evangelicals push Trump into conflict with Iran
Story by Amanda Marcotte • 13h •
6 min read

Wishing or simply enjoying the failure of a political opponent, isn't something I can prove, or even care to try to prove. It would require me to read ones mind.

However, when someone examines ones "body of work" it simply becomes an exercise in "Occam's Razor".

When Obama wanted to "fundamentally change America", I wanted his efforts to fail, not the Presidency. There were many things to dislike him about. There were also some good things that came out of his term(s).

Biden was an abject failure, period. I believe it stemmed from his inability to have cogent thoughts and implement them into policy.

I wanted his open border policy to fail, as it did. Now we are left with a mess than likely will never be fixed.

I could go one, but the gist of my post is, I want America to succeed. For that to happen a President must have some level of success, Republican or Democrat.

Okay, Steve, got it.

Perhaps I was still editing while you posted.

But I intend this thread to be specifically about this:

https://youtu.be/JK6VT9kJYR4?si=4wFbKGz0AbgzIPC2

Is Trump Fulfilling End Times Prophecy?

===============================================

This isn't something that requires mind reading. All it takes is to listen and read what they say. And BTW, there is no doubt that it's tied to Trump support by many Christians.

In part I'm motivated to explore and expose this because several of my close relatives are True Believers, and the guy who leases hunting rights on my property is a preacher preaching this end-times stuff.

And about every two weeks or so, I get visitation from people proselytizing end-times. I can talk with them and be respectful, because I understand them. They actually seem reasonable and presentable except for this belief. I ask lots of questions and present them with enigmas for fun.

Some of them have a tablet with several versions of the Bible on it, such as King James etc. They prefer another version. But the point is they can look up any answer in scripture, or at least find a fit. So, my challenge to them is to offer secular POV vs True Believer POV. Often it boils down to some things just can't be answered except through belief, and I point that out. I'm fine with it. They are not and must fill in the void. You know - God works in mysterious ways and HE has a plan. He's omnipotent and intercedes in all human affairs and Trump is His servant.

Failed businessman.

Failed in marriage.

Convicted felon.

He does not need any help in failures!

Sticky little mess. Trump's failures may or may not become America's failures. Deportations were promised to us as an attempt to weed out criminals. ICE has a quota that looks like Trump wants to claim a million gone in the first year, and does not seem to be prioritizing the deportation of criminals over making a quota. He sold us something other than what he's delivering. This is fraudulent. If the effort fails, it will not be as much of a disaster for our country as it will be if it succeeds on those terms.

I personally do not think that transgender males who take on a female life should compete in sports where upper body strength is a key. I also do not think this a presidential issue to take a place alongside economic issues like collateralized debt and the size of the derivatives market. Trump shirks hard issues that require thought and effort in favor of emotionally loaded ones that do not. He is doing a bowdlerized version of his job, as defined by his donors.

At some point, this misfocus is going to cost us...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Wishing or simply enjoying the failure of a political opponent, isn't something I can prove, or even care to try to prove. It would require me to read ones mind.

However, when someone examines ones "body of work" it simply becomes an exercise in "Occam's Razor".

When Obama wanted to "fundamentally change America", I wanted his efforts to fail, not the Presidency. There were many things to dislike him about. There were also some good things that came out of his term(s).

Biden was an abject failure, period. I believe it stemmed from his inability to have cogent thoughts and implement them into policy.

I wanted his open border policy to fail, as it did. Now we are left with a mess than likely will never be fixed.

I could go one, but the gist of my post is, I want America to succeed. For that to happen a President must have some level of success, Republican or Democrat.

I guess it doesn't bother you that der trumpmeister is rather proud and open about the Schadenfruede that he gets from the misfortunes that befall Democrats whether it be at the ballot box or otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Sticky little mess. Trump's failures may or may not become America's failures. Deportations were promised to us as an attempt to weed out criminals. ICE has a quota that looks like Trump wants to claim a million gone in the first year, and does not seem to be prioritizing the deportation of criminals over making a quota. He sold us something other than what he's delivering. This is fraudulent. If the effort fails, it will not be as much of a disaster for our country as it will be if it succeeds on those terms.

I personally do not think that transgender males who take on a female life should compete in sports where upper body strength is a key. I also do not think this a presidential issue to take a place alongside economic issues like collateralized debt and the size of the derivatives market. Trump shirks hard issues that require thought and effort in favor of emotionally loaded ones that do not. He is doing a bowdlerized version of his job, as defined by his donors.

At some point, this misfocus is going to cost us...

funny no mention on tariffs: any winning from that?

Why does it matter? Even if the strikes prove to be only marginally effective he will never believe or accept that they were anything less than obliterative since by their nature they were supposed to be. Afterall he still believes that he didn't lose the 2020 election

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Sticky little mess. Trump's failures may or may not become America's failures. Deportations were promised to us as an attempt to weed out criminals. ICE has a quota that looks like Trump wants to claim a million gone in the first year, and does not seem to be prioritizing the deportation of criminals over making a quota. He sold us something other than what he's delivering. This is fraudulent. If the effort fails, it will not be as much of a disaster for our country as it will be if it succeeds on those terms.

I personally do not think that transgender males who take on a female life should compete in sports where upper body strength is a key. I also do not think this a presidential issue to take a place alongside economic issues like collateralized debt and the size of the derivatives market. Trump shirks hard issues that require thought and effort in favor of emotionally loaded ones that do not. He is doing a bowdlerized version of his job, as defined by his donors.

At some point, this misfocus is going to cost us...

funny no mention on tariffs: any winning from that?

idk -- largest may budget surplus in history -- stated 10b in tariff revenue --

jealous subject

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
I guess it doesn't bother you that der trumpmeister is rather proud and open about the Schadenfruede that he gets from the misfortunes that befall Democrats whether it be at the ballot box or otherwise.

That's interesting -- in context.

I don't recall ever seeing the word Schadenfreude before.

https://www.psychologytoday.co...6ec02f26cb15ec086fc4

10 Unsettling Facts About Schadenfreude
Schadenfreude is a sign of our times.

===================================

It fits right in with the dark tetrad personality:

https://www.google.com/search?...yAcY&sclient=gws-wiz

========================================

https://youtube.com/shorts/rSX...?si=o_wX2ERime3in52-

The World's Greatest Narcissist

==================================

I find this whole scenario strange in the sense of like a weird sci-fi, dystopic, horror, alt-reality satire movie.

But it's really happening.

I was tempted to use a cliche and say "you can't make this up". But --- see the links in my first and second post in this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
I guess it doesn't bother you that der trumpmeister is rather proud and open about the Schadenfruede that he gets from the misfortunes that befall Democrats whether it be at the ballot box or otherwise.

That's interesting -- in context.

I don't recall ever seeing the word Schadenfreude before.
.

and that explains many things -- including how well read you arent

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:11

Until you post something relevant

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:11

Until you post something relevant

I did. That you didnt like it isnt important or relevant...

You are so emotional.. did you get your shots this week?

Poor little baby

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:18

Apparently you just don't know what relevant is.

Therefore, ignoring you is relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:18

Apparently you just don't know what relevant is.

Therefore, ignoring you is relevant.

So, you read it, then couldn't stand it. Even though the root is just EXACTLY what you said.

Poor baby...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:11

Until you post something relevant

I did. That you didnt like it isnt important or relevant...

You are so emotional.. did you get your shots this week?

Poor little baby

Poor old lady!

America politics has always been corrupt!

Right now it has reached the levels of MAGA CORUUPT!

Thanks to THE MAGA FUCKWIT in charge!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:18

Apparently you just don't know what relevant is.

Therefore, ignoring you is relevant.

So, you read it, then couldn't stand it. Even though the root is just EXACTLY what you said.

Poor baby...

It's not that I can't stand it.

It's that when you shift - deflect - the thread and address me personally, then I alone get to choose relevancy and whether I bother with you.

Calling me names and telling me what you think of me adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

But actually, that's your intent.

I've seen this digress too many times when you play these games with others, and me.

I'm just not going to play along. It's a waste of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 06:18

Apparently you just don't know what relevant is.

Therefore, ignoring you is relevant.

So, you read it, then couldn't stand it. Even though the root is just EXACTLY what you said.

Poor baby...

It's not that I can't stand it.

It's that when you shift - deflect - the thread and address me personally, then I alone get to choose relevancy and whether I bother with you.

Calling me names and telling me what you think of me adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

But actually, that's your intent.

I've seen this digress too many times when you play these games with others, and me.

I'm just not going to play along. It's a waste of time.

i didn't call you names, THEN, maggie -- but in your head, i am sure it fits -- i just quoted your exACT quote, and since YOU set the precedent that creative cutting doesn't matter -- GET OVER IT

your behavior is SO precious

ignored post in 3,2,1

quote:

ignored post in 3,2,1

Ignored post by jeffeosso posted 27 June 2025 07:13

I'm sorry ME, but I distinctly recall you using the term schadenfreude in the past.

You are being disingenuous to make your goofy equivalences to Trump being on par with Adolf Hitler again.

I have no issue with you claiming that Trump is the worst US president in your opinion. I may disagree, but its a matter of degree. I certainly don't think he's a good one, just better than the previous one or Hillary would have been. And as they say, that's a VERY low bar to beat.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Sticky little mess. Trump's failures may or may not become America's failures. Deportations were promised to us as an attempt to weed out criminals. ICE has a quota that looks like Trump wants to claim a million gone in the first year, and does not seem to be prioritizing the deportation of criminals over making a quota. He sold us something other than what he's delivering. This is fraudulent. If the effort fails, it will not be as much of a disaster for our country as it will be if it succeeds on those terms.

I personally do not think that transgender males who take on a female life should compete in sports where upper body strength is a key. I also do not think this a presidential issue to take a place alongside economic issues like collateralized debt and the size of the derivatives market. Trump shirks hard issues that require thought and effort in favor of emotionally loaded ones that do not. He is doing a bowdlerized version of his job, as defined by his donors.

At some point, this misfocus is going to cost us...

funny no mention on tariffs: any winning from that?

idk -- largest may budget surplus in history -- stated 10b in tariff revenue --

jealous subject

Not sure how the tariffs rank in terms of disguised tax increases.
Another bill of good sold as something different.

One could be excused for thinking that the overall effect of our economic plan is to inflate the federal debt interest payments and stave off insolvency. The trick is to get incomes and expenses to inflate together and not become out of synchronization.

Silicon Valley Bank went under when its collateral would not fund its withdrawals. Oops.
I will venture a guess that other banks noticed this and made moves.

There will be more of this collateral trouble if real estate prices slide with interest rate increases.
Banks holding a lot of mortgage debt are caught between rock and hard place.
Nice to get more interest, not so good if they need cash and have to sell existing mortgages at a discount.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm sorry ME, but I distinctly recall you using the term schadenfreude in the past.

You are being disingenuous to make your goofy equivalences to Trump being on par with Adolf Hitler again.

I wrote that I didn't recall that word.

If you remember something different, I'm okay with that.

I don't believe that I've been making "equivalences to Trump being on par with Adolf Hitler again", or previously. IMO, Trump is not "on par", so why would I try to make that point?

You must have me confused with someone else, or maybe just misunderstood me.

Just because that word is German (?) and just because I think Trump is fascist-like and a fascist wannabee doesn't mean that I think he's on par with Hitler. After all, IMO, Hitler was smarter than Trump.

=================================================

Back to the thread theme:

I'll ask some questions, which are mostly rhetorical:

What would Trumpism be without Christian Nationalism?

What would Christian be without Nationalism?

What would Nationalism be without Christian?

Here's some light reading which may answer the questions, as if you don't already know.

https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

========================================================

And a couple of bonus questions:

What would Christianity be without the end-times prophesy?

What would Israel be if not for the Christian end-times prophesy?

Perhaps you can speculate the dozens of related rhetorical questions I might ask.

Some might be regarding how project 2025 and Trump's admin and agendas fits in this theme.

One question in particular might be how the Founders saw this coming and made the governance, rule of law, the constitution secular.

An associated question might be why many if not most Christians who support Trump also want to conflated church and state?

Hitler smarter than Trump? Probably.

The equivalence is the continual calling Trump Fascist.

Hitler and Mussolini are the defining examples of fascism.

Trump is Trump…

He’s rather unique in how he operates, and will undoubtedly be a lesson in the future about how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power.

That Trump had no discernible political desires until late in life, and then was able to do so says a lot.

On the positive side it does show that you don’t need to be a political person in the system to reach the pinnacles of power in the US even today.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hitler smarter than Trump? Probably.

The equivalence is the continual calling Trump Fascist.

Hitler and Mussolini are the defining examples of fascism.

Trump is Trump…

He’s rather unique in how he operates, and will undoubtedly be a lesson in the future about how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power.

That Trump had no discernible political desires until late in life, and then was able to do so says a lot.

On the positive side it does show that you don’t need to be a political person in the system to reach the pinnacles of power in the US even today.

you are right it is a cult and a lot here are showing how they follow the cult of the supreme leader ...

I don’t buy that most of it is a cult.

Most of it is the extreme polarization of our politics and both sides extremists desire to control everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hitler smarter than Trump? Probably.

The equivalence is the continual calling Trump Fascist.

Hitler and Mussolini are the defining examples of fascism.

Trump is Trump…

He’s rather unique in how he operates, and will undoubtedly be a lesson in the future about how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power.

That Trump had no discernible political desires until late in life, and then was able to do so says a lot.

On the positive side it does show that you don’t need to be a political person in the system to reach the pinnacles of power in the US even today.

you are right it is a cult and a lot here are showing how they follow the cult of the supreme leader ...

Demonization of "other" is the first step to tyranny. In other news, trump has cut off talks with Canada over "digital services tax " .. free and fair trade, huh?

I like Trump as a president and I’m cultist?
You girls crack me up
Anyway, good for Trump to cut off the talks with Canada as we can only do right by other with as Jeff said “ free and fair trade”
When you look what other countries are doing when it comes to taxes/tariffs, they just go around and tax anything and everything they can get hands on to satisfy their socialist agenda …read we gonna help you/we gonna tax you

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hitler smarter than Trump? Probably.

The equivalence is the continual calling Trump Fascist.

Hitler and Mussolini are the defining examples of fascism.

Trump is Trump…

He’s rather unique in how he operates, and will undoubtedly be a lesson in the future about how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power.

That Trump had no discernible political desires until late in life, and then was able to do so says a lot.

On the positive side it does show that you don’t need to be a political person in the system to reach the pinnacles of power in the US even today.

you are right it is a cult and a lot here are showing how they follow the cult of the supreme leader ...

Demonization of "other" is the first step to tyranny. In other news, trump has cut off talks with Canada over "digital services tax " .. free and fair trade, huh?

and it is me getting off track ... you are so much in love for canada that you wont admit it here but all know about it ... we are still nice to the us visitors going to alaska and never heard a story of canadian immigrations deporting an us citizen for non reasons which the contrary cannot be said ... we will see at the end of trump mandate if your country and texas won ...

are you under the influence, stupid, or just playing a bit? any is okay, but you should be aware of where you are coming from --

It's NOT ME that constantly brings (Not Texas) into the conversation, if mention is jealousy -- and jealousy is an ugly thing, subject

subject, be quite, freemen are talking

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
are you under the influence, stupid, or just playing a bit? any is okay, but you should be aware of where you are coming from --

It's NOT ME that constantly brings (Not Texas) into the conversation, if mention is jealousy -- and jealousy is an ugly thing, subject

subject, be quite, freemen are talking

ah ah i love you jeffe ... cannot wait to see how great your country will be soon when the canadian products will not coming anymore to your whole country and we will start to buy what we need somewhere else ... the balance between our two countries once natural gas, electricity and oil is not in your balance as we are buying more than your country do ...

now even if im a subject i can still talk and you cannot stop me ... you are not more a freeman as you stated you are as you are following the cult of the supreme leader and you had no issues explaingin how good he is even when wrong ...

cannot wait to see what you will explain when treasure island stories will come out from your ex-buddy elon ...

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hitler smarter than Trump? Probably.

The equivalence is the continual calling Trump Fascist.

Hitler and Mussolini are the defining examples of fascism.

Trump is Trump…

He’s rather unique in how he operates, and will undoubtedly be a lesson in the future about how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power.

That Trump had no discernible political desires until late in life, and then was able to do so says a lot.

On the positive side it does show that you don’t need to be a political person in the system to reach the pinnacles of power in the US even today.

From the journalism I've read the authors don't make the attempt of equivalence with Trump(ism) and the historical fascism.

What they do is point out the similarities and of course the differences.

I don't usually call Trump a fascist. I call him a wannabee fascist. He is not yet a full blown fascist because of the system's constraints. But he's constantly trying to break the constraints with fascist-like means, for fascist-like end.

The thing is that Trump hasn't taught us anything that we didn't already know about populism and demagoguery.

And about "how conditions allow certain forms of populism to take power", well, that's the theme of this thread. I've specified significant "conditions" above.

One condition, perhaps minor in comparison, is that some people just won't or can't see what Trump really is. One nice word for them is apologists.

Reagan was a populist, but not what I would think of as a demagogue. Republicans tend towards celebrities and such.

Honestly, I wish HRC had won:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...Jzb?ocid=socialshare

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton issued an epic takedown of President Donald Trump during the 2016 Presidential debates, telling Trump that he lives in his 'own reality.'

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
are you under the influence, stupid, or just playing a bit? any is okay, but you should be aware of where you are coming from --

It's NOT ME that constantly brings (Not Texas) into the conversation, if mention is jealousy -- and jealousy is an ugly thing, subject

subject, be quite, freemen are talking

ah ah i love you jeffe ... cannot wait to see how great your country will be soon when the canadian products will not coming anymore to your whole country and we will start to buy what we need somewhere else ... the balance between our two countries once natural gas, electricity and oil is not in your balance as we are buying more than your country do ...

now even if im a subject i can still talk and you cannot stop me ... you are not more a freeman as you stated you are as you are following the cult of the supreme leader and you had no issues explaingin how good he is even when wrong ...

cannot wait to see what you will explain when treasure island stories will come out from your ex-buddy elon ...

you apparently aren't a numbers guy -- the US could lose the ENTIRETY of the canadain GDP, close ranks, and move out -- and all of canada suffers ...

are you SERIOUSLY this dense or just having a go?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Honestly, I wish HRC had won:

tis isn't exactly a personal insult, but YOU are an IDIOT

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Honestly, I wish HRC had won:

tis isn't exactly a personal insult, but YOU are an IDIOT

By now you should know my opinion of your opinions.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ap7...?si=ISOBARI25WkWOKpU

Donald Trump is Not Dumb

As I've said before, I hope Trump and Trumpists fail at their bigoted, autocratic, ill-conceived, unpatriotic policies.

a factual observation isn't exactly an opinion -

strange, are you the one "begging" for correction?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
As I've said before, I hope Trump and Trumpists fail at their bigoted, autocratic, ill-conceived, unpatriotic policies.

you DO understand that autocrat IS a synonym for elite, right? and you do DECLARE yourself an elite

jimmy supports illegal aliens, Iran having Nukes, and what lese, jim?

did you also hope bush, clinton, bush, obama all failed in trying to control illegal immigrants, or is it just trump, that makes you want America to fail? Are you THAT emotive?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
are you under the influence, stupid, or just playing a bit? any is okay, but you should be aware of where you are coming from --

It's NOT ME that constantly brings (Not Texas) into the conversation, if mention is jealousy -- and jealousy is an ugly thing, subject

subject, be quite, freemen are talking

ah ah i love you jeffe ... cannot wait to see how great your country will be soon when the canadian products will not coming anymore to your whole country and we will start to buy what we need somewhere else ... the balance between our two countries once natural gas, electricity and oil is not in your balance as we are buying more than your country do ...

now even if im a subject i can still talk and you cannot stop me ... you are not more a freeman as you stated you are as you are following the cult of the supreme leader and you had no issues explaingin how good he is even when wrong ...

cannot wait to see what you will explain when treasure island stories will come out from your ex-buddy elon ...

you apparently aren't a numbers guy -- the US could lose the ENTIRETY of the canadain GDP, close ranks, and move out -- and all of canada suffers ...

are you SERIOUSLY this dense or just having a go?

we are suffering and you do not feel it lol ... just a matter of time honey ... you do not need us seeems our politicians are making sure they re doing it your way ... as i said you will love it ...

read that honey:
https://oec.world/en/profile/b...ntry/can/partner/usa

when we will find other markets than you to export and as we are starting to buy from outside usa you will feel it honey ... you need us but you do not want us fair enough ...