https://www.aljazeera.com/news...ilitary-chief-milley

Pulling his security detail, his clearances, looking to demote him post-retirement and Hegseth orders an investigation.

You're not allowed to criticize the king of the US. Unbelievable. This is our country now? Looking to destroy a man who spent his entire life in the service of his country?

Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

I don’t know Gen. Miley’s beliefs as to what has caused the sad state of readiness in the U.S. military, the dismal recuiting, the unsustainable rates of retention, abandonment of meritocracy and collapse of physical fitness standards, but those failures happened on his watch.

Should Milley get a free pass ? He’s protected (Biden’s pardon) from criminal and UCMJ prosecution so the 5th Amendment no longer gives him a right to refuse to testify. Does the Congress have a duty to inquire (and the public the right to learn) why we’ve had the undeniable catastrophic damage to our fighting forces.

Hegseth is the duly appointed and confirmed Sec. of Defense. In his book WAR ON WARRIORS, he explained his opinions as to why many of the DOD generals were doing more harm to our military than good Milley included.

Nothing that is happening is a surprise . Nov 5th assured it would happen. As Obama’s said to McCain, “You lost, I won”.
Elections have consequences.

I hope Gen Milley will look forward to defending his name and actions . Let’s see if Hegseth’s claims are true or not. If they’re are not, Hegseth should go home for making false accusations , disgraced.

BTW if you haven’t read it, Hegseth’s book will give you Paul Harvey’s other-side-of-the-story rather than the MSM version. It’d do all us well to read both sides.

He should have been smart and stay out of politics
Nuf said

If Milley hadn't got a pardon, well, now we know how that would have gone.

This is all about retaliation by the monster. Milley is most qualified to call Trump a fascist to the core.

Now Trump affirms it.

It's some very sick irony that Trump supporters say Milley "likely committed treason", when their dear leader actually did commit treason, and beat the system of accountability for it specifically because of their support. And then he reinforced the act by releasing hundreds of criminals who multiplied the treason.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...3cc25ad3c6e77f&ei=81

Hegseth takes action against Trump foe Mark Milley
Story by Dan Lamothe, Missy Ryan, Alex Horton • 11h • 5 min read

(excerpt - last two paragraphs)

As the tail end of the first Trump administration grew increasingly unpredictable, Milley twice called senior officials in Beijing to reassure China that the U.S. government was stable, he and other U.S. officials have said. The calls were coordinated by Milley with Trump’s defense secretaries at the time and other senior U.S. officials, but still became a flash point in which Trump accused Milley of treason. The phone calls were first reported in another Woodward book.

Peter Feaver, a political scientist at Duke University who specializes in the military’s interaction with civil society, said it is hard to see what good the moves against Milley will accomplish and easy to see how they could further politicize the military. Another potential consequence, Feaver said, is setting a precedent of retribution “that Trump officials may come to regret if and when Democrats regain political power.”

===============================================

Does anyone else see the big/little word "if" in the last sentence in the article?

Does anyone else recognize the flaw there? There are several people herein who make that mistake too. They think the system will be okay.

Trump is already talking about a third or fourth term, supposing he lives to be 90, I suppose.

There is no way this fascist monster won't try by whatever means to see to it the Democrats will never regain political power again.

And even if they do, iffy traditional means being the only path, undoing the harm from a Trump era is hard to imagine.

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
He should have been smart and stay out of politics
Nuf said

His conscience and sense of morals, ethics, etc. got to him, considering his boss/foe's depravity.

Take just one example - talking about political, Milley was tricked by Trump when that photo-op with the Bible in front of the church happened. Milley was in uniform. Trump multiplied the messages or signals. Milley said he didn't know that was about to happen and publicly apologized. Trump's fascist mode kicked in and vowed retribution. That's exactly what this is about and exactly what fascist regimes do.

Kneecapping the King would have been enough had Trump not been reelected.

One thing we can count on is that Trump will root out such people. Conscienceless is the prime qualifying factor in Trump loyalists.

I have to think that Trump, and backup Team following orders, are making a calculated move on Milley. By calculated, I mean weighing out the backlash vs whatever they intend to reap, which is mostly Trump's ego satisfaction.

The only backlash that matters is whatever might come from the fascist fodder supporters. What's the odds? Probably nothing to lose, so it's all upside.

After all, Fox News broke the story.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news...ilitary-chief-milley

Pulling his security detail, his clearances, looking to demote him post-retirement and Hegseth orders an investigation.

You're not allowed to criticize the king of the US. Unbelievable. This is our country now? Looking to destroy a man who spent his entire life in the service of his country?

Yeah.. you are defending a guy who called our biggest foe and told the bad guys that he would call them if the gallon goes up?

quote:

Yeah.. you are defending a guy who called our biggest foe and told the bad guys that he would call them if the gallon goes up?

Yeah, calling a stable regime from an unstable regime, reassuring that Top Brass isn't playing games with nuke brinkmanship, or first strike, yeah that's treason.

The premise is that Trump's instability or strategic lack of predictability is not a good nuke cold war plot.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

Ah, no he did not.

I can't comment on Milley's action from a military standpoint. Having peaked at SP4, I don't really have the background. I can't help but think he overstepped somewhat.
I do believe Trump is likely to take lawfare to new heights over petty grievances. It's too bad, because some of his policies, if properly implemented (unlikely), could be beneficial to the nation. Regards, Bill.

Reminds me of the incident during the Cuban Missile Crisis when a Russian submariner dawdled about hitting the red button and accidentally prevented WW III (for awhile).

Interesting. No one is defending Milley’s gross incompetence to produce an effective fighting force…. Because they can’t.
Calling our enemies on the phone aside (which is about impossible to do) the question was:: should he get a free pass for the degradation of our ability to deter or win armed conflicts and keep our soldiers, sailors and Marines alive
?

Hegseth’s books claim Milley put p.c. Agenda ahead of war fighting and therefore endangered our nation and future combatants.

What’s the matter with an inquiry into the truth of the allegations so that we’re not doomed to repeat it.

Milley should be gear and proud to defend his legacy.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

Horseshit.

I guess you'll be OK with the next Dem administration pulling trump's SS detail? Asinine, childish, stupid behavior from trump.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I don’t know Gen. Miley’s beliefs as to what has caused the sad state of readiness in the U.S. military, the dismal recuiting, the unsustainable rates of retention, abandonment of meritocracy and collapse of physical fitness standards, but those failures happened on his watch.

Does the Congress have a duty to inquire (and the public the right to learn) why we’ve had the undeniable catastrophic damage to our fighting forces.

Nothing that is happening is a surprise . Nov 5th assured it would happen. As Obama’s said to McCain, “You lost, I won”.
Elections have consequences.

I hope Gen Milley will look forward to defending his name and actions . Let’s see if Hegseth’s claims are true or not. If they’re are not, Hegseth should go home for making false accusations , disgraced.

BTW if you haven’t read it, Hegseth’s book will give you Paul Harvey’s other-side-of-the-story rather than the MSM version. It’d do all us well to read both sides.

I omitted some parts of your post, to get to the points I want to argue about.

About the "failures" and "undeniable catastrophic damage to our fighting forces", I deny that claim which is opinion stated as fact. The reason is simple. Considering all the Trump lies, and belief thereof, I don't believe anything originating from Trump.

I do agree "Nothing that is happening is a surprise". And a lot more to come. I agree that Nov 5th was the demarcation date of something fomented for a long time. Let's all hope and do the best we can to not have it be and event horizon thing.
e·vent ho·ri·zon
/əˈvent,ēˈvent həˈrīzən/
nounAstronomy
a theoretical boundary around a black hole beyond which no light or other radiation can escape.
a point of no return.
"we're nearing the event horizon of the presidential election"

We already know that Hegseth's mission is not based on what he claims. It's his boss's ego retribution - period. Thinking that somehow Hegseth might be proven wrong is some wrong-headed thinking. I think you are lying to yourself and want us to believe you for affirmation's sake. There is no way Hegseth will be "proven" wrong. That's what spin is for.

There is no way I'll read Hegseth's book. It's a waste of time. We already know his character, and whatever BS he spews in a book is mind-numbing. Putting Paul Harvey and Hegseth in the same sentence is blasphemy.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Interesting. No one is defending Milley’s gross incompetence to produce an effective fighting force…. Because they can’t.
Calling our enemies on the phone aside (which is about impossible to do) the question was should he get a free pass for the degradation of our ability to deter or win armed conflicts?

Hegseth’s books claim Milley put p.c. Agenda ahead of war fighting and therefore endangered our nation and future combatants.

What’s the matter with an inquiry into the truth of the allegations so that we’re not doomed to repeat it.

Milley should be gear and proud to defend his legacy.

I think you are insane, but I'll pretend that you're not.

"Gear up" you say. You do know how costly that is, both in money and mind. Then there's his personal safety and for his family too.

I'm more worried about the nation being doomed from Trump's depravity, than anything Milley did. What's the matter with an inquiry into the truth of any allegations Trump makes? We know how that GOPer "inquiry" works already. They beat it like blood out of a turnip for political fomenting.

quote:

No one is defending Milley’s gross incompetence to produce an effective fighting force…. Because they can’t.

I'm wondering if you have thought this way all through your supposed and claimed career as a judge? If so, that's fearful. You structure the sentence like - "go ahead, make my day, defend my lies. You can't".

You're right, I won't defend your lies, which are so gross that I won't try to defend the reciprocal. After all, you made the claim, support it.

This is volatile for the sake of volatile.


vol·a·tile
/ˈvälədl/
adjective

Similar:
evaporative
vaporous
vaporescent
explosive
eruptive
inflammable
unstable
labile

liable to change rapidly and unpredictably, especially for the worse.
"the political situation was becoming more volatile"

Before age 21, I would think that every young person in America should have read Das Kapital, Mao’s Red Book and Mein Kampf along with the writings of the founding fathers and 17th and 18th century British economists/philosophers. The Bible and the Qur’an, too.

What’s your fear in having more than one source of information?

quote:

What’s your fear in having more than one source of information?

What makes you think its "fear" operating on me, especially re Hegseth as a source of information?

Putting Hegseth's book amongst those others you mentioned as examples, says a lot about you, more so than Hegseth. Putting him, as author, on the same plane, greatness, as those mentioned is telling. Should his ghost writer get some credit?

Would I read a book written by Charles Manson and consider it a "source of information"?

It certainly wouldn't be "fear" that deterred me. Perhaps disgust.

quote:

Before age 21, I would think that every young person in America should have read Das Kapital, Mao’s Red Book and Mein Kampf along with the writings of the founding fathers and 17th and 18th century British economists/philosophers. The Bible and the Qur’an, too.

Yet, most people on "your side" as Ya'll like to say, support book banning, censorship, and public funding of private schools, curriculum control, and so much more.

I suppose insanity and hypocrisy are mutually supportive.

Of course you’d want to read It if you wanted to learn his motivations, psychopathy and how environment and physiology worked together to create the man.

Yep, I got it right… fear is the operative word.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Interesting. No one is defending Milley’s gross incompetence to produce an effective fighting force…. Because they can’t.
Calling our enemies on the phone aside (which is about impossible to do) the question was:: should he get a free pass for the degradation of our ability to deter or win armed conflicts and keep our soldiers, sailors and Marines alive
?

Hegseth’s books claim Milley put p.c. Agenda ahead of war fighting and therefore endangered our nation and future combatants.

What’s the matter with an inquiry into the truth of the allegations so that we’re not doomed to repeat it.

Milley should be gear and proud to defend his legacy.

You know, I wonder who the heck was stupid enough to appoint someone so grossly incompetent to be the the Chairman of the JCOS?

https://www.jcs.mil/Media/News...dunford-as-chairman/

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Of course you’d want to read It if you wanted to learn his motivations, psychopathy and how environment and physiology worked together to create the man.

Yep, I got it right… fear is the operative word.

I don't need affirmations of something that's already obvious. The nuances and background of his depravity isn't as important to me as his position of power now. And predictions of how he will behave are easily accurate - no psychiatrist needed.

It's fair to presume he's a self-made lunatic. Whatever influences he had, external or internal were choices he alone made and is responsible for. Same with our GD VP.

As a Judge, would you give favor to a guy, victim of circumstances, especially unrepentant, or just weigh his deeds?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

Ah, no he did not.

Did Miley, by his own statement, call his Chinese counterpart and promise to give him a heads up of action?

Yes....

Trump took a rather lax attitude to classified information if I recall. Didn’t the CIA have to extract a source from Russia after Trump blabbed when he shouldn’t, and I think the UK govt were frustrated about info his administration released which caused us problems.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

Ah, no he did not.

Did Miley, by his own statement, call his Chinese counterpart and promise to give him a heads up of action?

Yes....

Tell my what written regulations Gen. Miley violated?

This is happening bc Gen. Miley did not back the plan to steal the election.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Milley undermined the chain of command and likely committed treason with his call to China telling them he would preemptively warn them of any attack.

He should be made an example of. I don’t want him in jail or anything like you idiots are always espousing but a demotion sounds about right and I damn sure don’t want to spend a red cent on any security for him.

Ah, no he did not.

Did Miley, by his own statement, call his Chinese counterpart and promise to give him a heads up of action?

Yes....

Tell my what written regulations Gen. Miley violated?

This is happening bc Gen. Miley did not back the plan to steal the election.

What written regulations did Benedict Arnold violate?

quote:

What written regulations did Benedict Arnold violate?

"Benedict Arnold betrayed the Continental Army to the British when he made secret overtures to British headquarters in May 1779. In 1780 he informed the British of a proposed American invasion of Canada, and he also offered to surrender West Point, New York, to the British for £20,000." (Written as of Jan 17, 2025)

What was the betrayal and payoff for Milley? Where were his loyalties?

Spin it all you want, but still his years of service speak louder than Trump's lies and ego.

Now the scary part:

Where are the loyalties of Trump lackies?

And remember the saying that the winners get to write history's recollection.

If the British had won, B. Arnold would be a hero.

The recip is happening with Milley, yet history hasn't spoken yet.

Milley was doing his job. Shit, Espers told him to call the Chinese because of intelligence indicators that the Chinese thought trump was crazy enough to attack them and the calls were coordinated through the Secretary of Defense's office.

What's amusing is that the calls were necessitated by trump's erratic and insane behavior at the time...contesting the election, claiming fraud, fomenting the J6 riot.

It's not just the Chinese that think the US has gone crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Milley was doing his job. Shit, Espers told him to call the Chinese because of intelligence indicators that the Chinese thought trump was crazy enough to attack them and the calls were coordinated through the Secretary of Defense's office.

What's amusing is that the calls were necessitated by trump's erratic and insane behavior at the time...contesting the election, claiming fraud, fomenting the J6 riot.

It's not just the Chinese that think the US has gone crazy.

Wasn't it Trump who said "...what's the use of having nuclear weapons if you never use them..."?

I disagree with Trump going after Milley at this point with regards to his retirement and rank. I do think Milley was wrong in interjecting himself into the politics of what was going on. The separation between the military and political control is important. Trump does like being surrounded by the trappings of office. Trump should be careful about getting upset with a military officer doing what he is told to by politicians.

Since Milley was involved in the Solimani case and the Iranians have supposedly threatened him, I don’t buy in to removing his security detail. That should happen only if the threat no longer exists.

On the other hand, pulling his security clearance is reasonable. He’s not a general any more. He’s retired and does not have the confidence of the president, so he does not need to be read in to offer advice. Yes, losing that may cost him some post retirement jobs… he should have thought of that before he started trying to influence politics. That seems like a relatively minimal punishment that is in the discretion of the president.

Given his status as being pardoned by Biden, he has no reason to not respond to any inquiry and should further realize that his words were undoubtedly recorded so he would need to be cognizant of perjury, so he would have to be accurate in his responses.

That can certainly be a double edged sword to bringing him in for testimony if you have preconceived notions about what the inquiry is about.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I disagree with Trump going after Milley at this point with regards to his retirement and rank. I do think Milley was wrong in interjecting himself into the politics of what was going on. The separation between the military and political control is important. Trump does like being surrounded by the trappings of office. Trump should be careful about getting upset with a military officer doing what he is told to by politicians.

Since Milley was involved in the Solimani case and the Iranians have supposedly threatened him, I don’t buy in to removing his security detail. That should happen only if the threat no longer exists.

On the other hand, pulling his security clearance is reasonable. He’s not a general any more. He’s retired and does not have the confidence of the president, so he does not need to be read in to offer advice. Yes, losing that may cost him some post retirement jobs… he should have thought of that before he started trying to influence politics. That seems like a relatively minimal punishment that is in the discretion of the president.

Given his status as being pardoned by Biden, he has no reason to not respond to any inquiry and should further realize that his words were undoubtedly recorded so he would need to be cognizant of perjury, so he would have to be accurate in his responses.

That can certainly be a double edged sword to bringing him in for testimony if you have preconceived notions about what the inquiry is about.

Milley has already responded via testimony in front of Congress about the calls to China.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...bout-president-trump

trump is acting like the cry-baby he is because Milley has been critical of him. Failed to kiss the ring. trump isn't fit to polish his boots.

Regarding the loss of his security clearance, it's good for ten years per statute. It doesn't mean Milley is still receiving security information from the government. He almost certainly is not. Finally, utilizing a security clearance in any post-retirement non-government employment would be against the law so it doesn't mean anything in terms of employability.

Tell me you never held a clearance or work with someone holding same with telling me.....

So, he admits calling, but denies wrong doing... sounds exculpatory to me

Let's see what a court Marshall thinks

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Tell me you never held a clearance or work with someone holding same with telling me.....

So, he admits calling, but denies wrong doing... sounds exculpatory to me

Let's see what a court Marshall thinks

He can't be charged by the military or anyone else for that matter. One, he's retired, and two, he was pardoned.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Tell me you never held a clearance or work with someone holding same with telling me.....

So, he admits calling, but denies wrong doing... sounds exculpatory to me

Let's see what a court Marshall thinks

Again, he was ordered by the Secretary of Defense to make at least the first call to China. trump's Secretary of Defense. There was intelligence that the Chinese thought trump might attack China....since he is batshit fucking crazy. Milley was trying to avert conflict. Sorry, but that's not treason or anything close to it. It's smart and it was designed to protect the interests of the United States.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Tell me you never held a clearance or work with someone holding same with telling me.....

So, he admits calling, but denies wrong doing... sounds exculpatory to me

Let's see what a court Marshall thinks

Again, he was ordered by the Secretary of Defense to make at least the first call to China. trump's Secretary of Defense. There was intelligence that the Chinese thought trump might attack China....since he is batshit f**king crazy. Milley was trying to avert conflict. Sorry, but that's not treason or anything close to it. It's smart and it was designed to protect the interests of the United States.

And Mendez tried to plead long service...11 years

No one is above the law, right?

As a retired Army Lt Colonel and combat veteran,
my opinons are based on 30 years service.

First, GEN Miley had lost respect among his active duty peers. "Credibility is like virginity, you will not be getting it back."
He is known throughout HQDA as "Thoroughly modern Miley". When a General Officer reaches his 4th star, its time to stand up for his branch and country. Another star will not be in his future.

GEN Miley will have a legacy like Biden: very questionable
if not disgraceful. SECDEF Austen went AWOL, and told no one. The new SECDEF will not do that.

Harry Truman would fire the Democratic Party-in toto.

As a retired person, new life from my old life, which includes military and combat service and other govt. service, and at least 30 years of observations and experience, I say to general Milley and Biden: Thank you for your many years of service. Best wishes in your retirement.

quote:

Harry Truman would fire the Democratic Party-in toto.

You're right about credibility and virginity. With that line, you destroyed yours.

a presidents pardon doesn't prevent him from being prosecuted under the UCMJ.

Why not? What's your authority?

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
a presidents pardon doesn't prevent him from being prosecuted under the UCMJ.

It does if the pardon says it does.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Tell me you never held a clearance or work with someone holding same with telling me.....

So, he admits calling, but denies wrong doing... sounds exculpatory to me

Let's see what a court Marshall thinks

Court Marshall?