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Are Israelis able to own and keep firearms for personal protection? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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It’s my understanding that they can, but it’s not a right, it’s a privilege and fully under government control. They had tightened the rules over time prior to this last outrage. I’m sure they will liberalize them for a time, then once again revert back to more control. It’s the nature of government to control if they can. | |||
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they are but there's more paper work, training, and waiting time involved than getting a CCW permit in California. it's at least a 6 month long program. | |||
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I am curious to hear Don’s description of how it is. If these folks had had and AR-15 in the home…they could have gone a long way to saving themselves. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Moderator |
Yeah, there is some truth to that - it's harder to raid a farm when the grandmothers are shooting back - wouldn't have helped the kids at the concert much opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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When I was a kid…there were still some old folks alive in Jacksboro, TX that lived through (as kids) the last Comanche raids. They made it by being prepared and fighting back. Having a Winchester 1873 definitely upped their odds. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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One of Us |
Same old story over and over Government denies citizens firearms for protection until shit hits the fan and then it’s ok to arm but it is usually late for some and when it blows over, they come for your guns That is why we in US are lucky having 2nd thanks to our founding fathers Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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The Hamas killers had RPGs and heavy machine guns. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Not all of them did. | |||
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Jeff, Had you been living along the periphery of the Gaza Strip when this occurred and saw it unfolding…would you have rather had an AR-15 or AR-10 and a chest-webbing with extra high-capacity magazines are not? Simple question…yes or no. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Administrator |
Lane: I have been to Israel many times. I have cousins there. One close cousin lived on a Kibbutz before moving to Las Vegas about 5 years ago. He carried a sidearm at all times. Automatic weapons are not carried by citizens, because until Oct 7 the terrorists never did. The kibbutz he was on had a fence and a guard shack with 2 soldiers. It was far north and their worry was always the occasional rocket from Hezbollah (you know, that organization that Trump called "smart"). I never felt unsafe visiting Ricki. About 14 days ago he headed back as his unit was called up and he is an officer (even though he is 70). The Kibbutzim along the border have fences, soldiers assigned and armed civilians. BUT, the Hamas butchers were well armed and thousands came across with but one purpose. Die a martyr and kill, rape and torture as many as they could before going down. No civilian with a hand gun could defend against hundreds of missiles, automatic weapons and trained terrorists. Hamas must be destroyed so this can't happen again. Don The game has now changed forever. | |||
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And that is why there is nothing wrong to be armed better then just handgun ( good home armory ) That one time when you need it and don’t have it is the time when you get hurt or die If Ukraine citizens were armed to their teeth, Russia may not have been so eager to attack Again it is same old story again and again I wonder if Mexican citizen could arm themselves with arms available like here in US, the cartels wouldn’t rule them as much Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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Thank you kindly sir for the reply. All your points accepted. My question was more aimed at what if (or could they legally) each home had an AR equivalent/adult and the adults in the home had training to use. While it would not stop the attack and protect all…I myself would certainly rather have some realistic capacity to defend/fight back rather than await my turn at the chopping block. In this incident…if the citizenry were well armed…they could have made a difference and certainly each armed individual would have increased their personal chance of survival. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Moderator |
either he'll never answer directly, or pivot off and still never answer  opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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To be clear if destroying Hamas resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths would that be acceptable to you? | |||
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Certainly Yes. But any house that showed that kind of resistance would have been reduced by either heavy MG or missile fire in short order. The failure was not in the civilians not being heavily armed, it was in Netanyahu ignoring intelligence warnings, including reportedly from Egypt, and shifting troops from facing Gaza to lean on the West Bank. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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"To be clear" - BS. It is clear that Hamas knew in advance that the results of its acts would result in tens of thousands of civilian deaths, and that was acceptable, if not planned. Israel's goal of the complete destruction of Hamas is not equivalent IMO, regarding the "acceptable" civilian deaths, at least I hope not. Though the outcome may be the same and they will call it "necessary" or "collateral" or say they should have left when they were told, whatever, and still be unacceptable yet not forestalling. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Do I correctly remember that one of Zelensky's first moves was to open the armories and hand out AK-47 rifles to the citizenry? TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| Moderator |
"to be clear" Hamas PLANNED that Israel would retaliate, and HAMAS factored in civilian deaths into their "story" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Hamas has built their entire military infrastructure specifically to be shielded by Palestinian civilians, with the most critical nodes under hospitals. Hamas doesn't give a damn about dead civilians, Palestinian or Israeli. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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If you will notice, bright bulb, I was specifically directing the question to Don based upon his assertion. Maybe let him answer first? | |||
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Unless the west (including Israel in that) is willing to cause some collateral damage in clearing out bad actors, all we will do is encourage them to continue to behave outside the norms of civil conduct. In my mind, while Israel might be justified in just dropping a bunker buster and being done with it on a Hamas command center underneath a hospital, at some point it’s more civil to go in with ground forces, try and not kill the hospital patients, and kill every last Hamas fighter hiding behind them… and then move the hospital patients and destroy the whole site. State that is what you are doing, and then slap a press ban on it so they don’t get the agitprop photos the Hamas types want. Print media may be ok to show you are trying, but no photos. | |||
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Edd was carrying one for a while, not sure if he still is. To be fair no amount of AR armed citizens are going to deter Russia or any other national military. Unless your citizenry also has training in the manufacture of IEDs and a supply of suitable artillery shells, mines, reasonable coms, is organised and with some degree of coordination there is only going to be one end result, tho it would doubtless be more satisfying to have something you could use to be able to take a few with you. | |||
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But, many if not most homes have safe-rooms that can hold up to rocket fire and thus might have saved them from RPG & MG fire if they were armed well enough to get there. Also, if the civilian resistance were great enough...they could not eliminate them all. Thank you kindly for the honest answer above...I think every honest person would rather have some viable defense. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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It might deter Hamas however...which is who we are speaking. And, even if it did not deter...it would give people a fighting chance to live. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Moderator |
If i were in a kibbutz under attack, I'd rather be sent to hell fighting back, than live forever on my knees further, RPGs tend to have low rates of fire, and a fairly high signature, when it's face to face on a farm. yes, hamas has heavy MGs - though most were armed with small arms - especially the evil b@astards in their "air force" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I would not expect to "win" against the sort of firepower Hamas brought on this mission, except in my own personal definition of "winning": If I kill two I win because they can only kill me once. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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They can kill you but... they're not allowed to eat you... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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I'm not sure this bunch follows even that rule, but considering I got so-called "lifetime" doses of radiation on several separate occasions they might get what they deserve. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Or identify as a pig, and get double revenge.  | |||
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I've eaten enough of them it should count. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Wait, ...... pigs, or Muslims????? | |||
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Pigs, preferably barbequed. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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All I will add is that if I was living there…I would want an AR equivalent and vest full of magazines in my near vicinity at all times and a 1911 on my person to potentially facilitate me getting to it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Administrator |
To be clear, yes. They built their tunnels under refugee housing. They fired their missiles from hospitals and mosques. It's on them, not Israel. When the US bombed afghan and Iraqi civilians I don't recall you speaking up. To be clear, when the US kills civilians it's acceptable to you but when the Jewish state does it, it's not? What about Russia raping and killing Ukrainians? Where was your "moral" outrage last year. Don | |||
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Don, Is it possible for a family to own an AR equivalent rifle in Israel? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Administrator |
No. Single shot rifles yes. The purpose of each Kibbutz having a soldier and locked armory for trained reservists to use failed except in a few cases. I suspect things are going to change now. And then there is Inbar Lieberman. A hero. Kibbutz Nir fights off butchers Don | |||
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Thank you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Don, you never replied in the other thread where you all but called me a liar for stating that Netanyahu shoveled money from Qatar to Hamas to prevent a two-state solution. What do Israelis think about Netanyahu helping finance the killing of Israelis by Hamas? "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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How do you know? If you are the aggressor and know place that you wanna invade is armed to the teeth, you will think twice I think, being from England, you are sheltered and you don’t know anything about aggressive behavior of despotic leaders/countries/criminal elements Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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