quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Steve

Just look at the mirror.

I have spent a lifetime studying and researching political and social institutions and history. A significant amount of that was in formal education and training. So I can proudly claim good knowledge and understanding of such matters from a GLOBAL perspective (not just from the tiny view point of a 0.5% global proportion of American right wing MAGAOTS or even a 4% American perspective).

Let us assume that you voted for Obama. So what? You may personally not be a racist. I know you promoted a gay manager as your General Manager. Good on you.

But you still defend Right wing bigotry and the hate culture that goes with it. "There are good people on both sides" seems to your defence.

Enough surveys have been done in the US to establish that there is a 30% hard core right wing racist demographic in the US that is mostly comprised of White Old men (over 65% of that group).

If you are not aware of such evidence, then may be YOU need to stop posting on a subject you know nothing about.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
What a one eyed and obtuse perspective.

So you are saying that the 45% who voted against Obama and the 30%+ hardcore right wing racists in the US does not make the US an INSTITUTIONALISED racist society? Really?

Despite all the PROVEN racist hate crimes and cop shootings of innocent blacks and the huge disparity in criminal justice court rulings, you are saying that the US is "post racists"?

You are saying that Obama was being populist for pointing out the unfair and PERSISTENT INSTITUTIONALISED racism among WHITE REPUBLICANS?

Your response is not hollow at all. It is ABSOLUTE PROOF of the level of INSTITUTIONALISED racism in the US AND here on ARPF.

Talking of low expectations, how low can one get than Trump? You RIGHT WING republican MAGA bigots are the ones with the LOWEST OF LOW standards in continuing to defend Trump & the current GUTTER OF A PARTY!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

People like Lane are simply pointing out that Obama created most of the current racial division in America.

You have no knowledge of what you speak.

Prior Obama, we as Americans were pretty much post racial. Obama needs the division and the Democrat party keeps it alive. How racist is a country that elected a Black man, twice?

The Black population is 13% of America, yet Obama received ~69 million votes or 53% (2008)
and ~65 million or 51% in 2012. Your accusations ring hollow.

"The soft bigotry of low expectations" is exactly the Democrats view of race relations in America.

How can you even know that I didn't vote for Obama?

your assessment is that a full 30% of the non-Obama vote is racist?

You have no clue of what you post and your lack of objective thought is astounding.

Perhaps you should limit your post's to subjects you understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


You're a pathological liar and not worthy of a discussion. When caught in one lie, I can never know what is truth and which is not.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
The Tea Party popped up overnight in response to Obama's election under the guise of fiscal responsibility. They melted away to become magats & such when the black guy left. Their phony conservatism shtick didn't matter when little Bush blew up the deficit & debt, & became again irrelevant when trump did it. It was always about racism.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Wow.

That is a debate? ...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


You're a pathological liar and not worthy of a discussion. When caught in one lie, I can never know what is truth and which is not.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Blue cities

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

Are you deflecting?

We are talking about the US in the context of the Original post.

Institutionalised racism is entrenched in the US particularly among older white men and this has been established far beyond doubt for over 150 years and even more so among GOP supporters.

What you are referring to is ETHNOCENTRISM which is people being comfortable among their own ethnicity and wary of others. THAT is not about dehumanising others or denying their human rights through institutionalised oppression.

Trump's policy of targeting Democrat governed states and not using the same logic or values to address the same issues in Republican governed states is a great example.

There are those here on ARPF who deny that institutionalised racism exists in the US and even blame Obama for highlighting the problem as some sort of race baiting. We have had this conversation before on more than one occasion, Doc.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Claiming whites are the only ones who deny others basic human rights and dignity is sophistry of the highest order.

Lots of folks think of others as being lesser. Statistically most of them are not white. (As you like to point out, there are more people of color than white folks in the world.) Don't believe it? Spend some time around Chinese folks from China.

The current "in" thing is to claim that its all power differential, which is also BS.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you want to look at it that way, your claim is ethnocentrism by whites is racism and is not when it’s anyone else…

Nonsense.

I am not denying lynching, racial based misbehavior by LE agents, or that certain elements of the white population hold bigoted views.

You and the “Racist lobby” are the ones deflecting.

The point isn’t that the whites are not racist, the point is that all are to some extent, and it is racist to claim it’s the purview of only one group in one nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Doc

Are you deflecting?

We are talking about the US in the context of the Original post.

Institutionalised racism is entrenched in the US particularly among older white men and this has been established far beyond doubt for over 150 years and even more so among GOP supporters.

What you are referring to is ETHNOCENTRISM which is people being comfortable among their own ethnicity and wary of others. THAT is not about dehumanising others or denying their human rights through institutionalised oppression.

Trump's policy of targeting Democrat governed states and not using the same logic or values to address the same issues in Republican governed states is a great example.

There are those here on ARPF who deny that institutionalised racism exists in the US and even blame Obama for highlighting the problem as some sort of race baiting. We have had this conversation before on more than one occasion, Doc.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Claiming whites are the only ones who deny others basic human rights and dignity is sophistry of the highest order.

Lots of folks think of others as being lesser. Statistically most of them are not white. (As you like to point out, there are more people of color than white folks in the world.) Don't believe it? Spend some time around Chinese folks from China.

The current "in" thing is to claim that its all power differential, which is also BS.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you want to look at it that way, your claim is ethnocentrism by whites is racism and is not when it’s anyone else…

Nonsense.

I am not denying lynching, racial based misbehavior by LE agents, or that certain elements of the white population hold bigoted views.

You and the “Racist lobby” are the ones deflecting.

The point isn’t that the whites are not racist, the point is that all are to some extent, and it is racist to claim it’s the purview of only one group in one nation.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Millions of white race crimes?

Prove the allegation. Document over 100,000 unpunished racial crimes by law by living people.

I don’t see racial injustice as the basic defining principle of the US. I see that it occurs, and that we are trying to do better, but no, we have not achieved perfection.

You need to tend to your own issues before throwing bricks at others.

It exists, it is wrong, but we also admit that it’s wrong.

You want an example of a black accusing a white of racial crimes and getting folks in trouble? Try Jesse Smollet.

It happens.

Race based crime should be prosecuted. If we have laws that place someone at preferential treatment due to their race, color, or creed then those laws should be changed.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
This, coming from someone who's race make child sacrifices to gain prosperity through "witchcraft".

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
This, coming from someone who's race make child sacrifices to gain prosperity through "witchcraft".

quote:

Nobody is asking for perfection. The US is a RACIST society. Period. No if and buts. THAT is the fundamental characteristic of your society and system. THAT is why you voted and elected TRUMP. That is why there was so much hate against Obama and his family. THAT is why the well known members here keep denying the issue and blaming blacks and Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
No, I'm talking about cutting the heads off kids to gain a change of luck.
No comment on that? This from such a superior country you claim India is.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Indians will ALWAYS be better than you. Even the poorest slum dweller has more decency than you. The more insults you throw on me, the lower you sink into your bigotry.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Indians will ALWAYS be better than you. Even the poorest slum dweller has more decency than you. The more insults you throw on me, the lower you sink into your bigotry.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Indians will ALWAYS be better than you. Even the poorest slum dweller has more decency than you. The more insults you throw on me, the lower you sink into your bigotry.

Northern Indians, or Southern Indians? There could be quite the squabble over which Indians are better than American Tejanos.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Nobody is asking for perfection. The US is a RACIST society. Period. No if and buts. THAT is the fundamental characteristic of your society and system. THAT is why you voted and elected TRUMP. That is why there was so much hate against Obama and his family. THAT is why the well known members here keep denying the issue and blaming blacks and Obama.

I disagree that racism is the fundamental characteristic of US society. The fundamental characteristic of our society is equality. At least that is the ideal, as expressed in our constitution and laws. Many times we've failed to live up to the ideal, but we haven't abandoned it. Things have gotten better--at least from the time when, as a child, I saw separate "white" and "colored" restrooms at a train station. Or when blacks were made to sit in the back of a bus.

Yes, there is still discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere. But it's no longer blatant, open, and enshrined in law.

Racism (along with ethnocentrism and xenophobia) are the natural conditions of mankind. We lived that way for countless generations. Hard-wired into our brains are fear and hatred of the tribe in the next valley who compete with us for food and resources. People who look, act, or talk differently. We still have that instinct and impulses.

You might argue that racism has only become more insidious as it's moved underground. There's a point there. People are now afraid to express it openly, lest they be criticized. But I think it's likely we are all racist and ethnocentric at least subconsciously; it's just that a lot of people lack the self-awareness to detect it in themselves.

Yes, Trump's election was a set-back for equality. I still can't understand why so many voters would overlook his racism and his other character flaws. I guess we have to say that many people who might not be racist themselves lack sensitivity to the problem.

I've heard that India has enshrined racism or ethnocentrism in its inflexible caste system. And NZ probably has problems with racism too. Instead of looking to America for perfection, maybe you should look at things closer to home.

quote:

But you totally lost it with your personal barbs at the end.

Firstly this is sn international forum.
Secondly the OP is the context. Please stay on point.
Thirdly, I do not have to justify why I post here. I have my rights to my views.
Fourthly, your logic is warped and distorted. Why do you or anyone else hunt in Africa? Why not just stay in your own country or town and. Hunt just in your county for squirrels and mice?

The bigotry of attacking the person rather than engaging in factual debate is s MAJOR CHARACTERISTIC of Right Wing Americans whereas well as some others.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Blue cities

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Blue cities

literally nothing has changed --

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Blue cities

literally nothing has changed --

Cities.....

and States, Red and Blue.

Same as it ever was.......

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Urban areas in America skew largely to the left, none of our largest cities vote red that I can see.

https://www.pewresearch.org/sh...ervative-big-cities/

quote:

I'm just as entitled to comment on racism in your country as you are to comment on mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Roland

yes you have your rights and I respect that. I think you mistook that right for the liberty to take MY THREAD off topic.

If you want to discuss Indian or NZ issues, great, do so but start your own thread.

That will not change the fact the the US is a racist society for centuries and more so under any GOP leadership.


Roland said

quote:

I'm just as entitled to comment on racism in your country as you are to comment on mine.