Every day, there reports of people committing minor crimes, that hurt no one, being severely punished.

While career criminals, like Trump and Hunter, go Scott free!

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Originally posted by crbutler:

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Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
Should have consulted a grand jury.

This would be correct and the reason they didn't was the fear that the city would explode when the guy got no-billed.

So why aren’t you upset about the NY AG’s office?

Isn’t the right way to do this go to a grand jury and then to trial if there is any question?

It depends. Law enforcement authorities (police, DA, AG) have broad discretion to charge on their own authority or present the case to a grand jury. In a clear cut case, police can bypass the GJ process and file charges on their own. Other times, the cops don't want to decide and they submit the case the the DA and let them decide to go ahead and charge or submit it to the GJ and let them decide.

Why would I be upset at the NY AG? I assume the paper trail and witnesses they have led them to believe the case against trump is so strong, presentation to a GJ was unnecessary.

I'd say the decision to charge the marine without a GJ indictment was a political decision designed to placate the community. I'd also say that it appears the dead guy was acting nutty but hadn't touched or threatened anyone and he got killed for his trouble. Choking somebody for 15 minutes is going to be an issue. And, it should be.

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Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:


An interesting perspective.

Seems the deceased had an extensive violent history? Would Penny's actions be deemed heroic only if a gun was involved? Are people supposed to wait until someone is injured or killed before acting?

Back to the meme and perspective. If a coyote, wolf, lion entered my pasture my dogs would kill it even if the predator had not killed a sheep first. The dogs know this is a bad thing to have in the flock. They will act at a mere threat.

Now, what is clear is if Penny wanted to kill the man he could have done so within a few seconds. He did not do that. This is a tragic situation for all. That there are so many violent and ill people running rampant in your cities is incomprehensible. There is no effort to take such people off the streets. That right there is the cause of this unnecessary death. The city is responsible.

The law on this is pretty much the same everywhere: you have to be in fear of serious bodily injury or death for yourself or others before the use of deadly force is justified. So, yeah....you do have to wait until you act. The marine didn't know about this guy's criminal history. And, like I said above, I'm not seeing any reporting that the crazy guy had assaulted anybody or displayed any weapons. I understand he was making threats but the reporting I've seen is conflicting on that issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

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Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:


An interesting perspective.

Seems the deceased had an extensive violent history? Would Penny's actions be deemed heroic only if a gun was involved? Are people supposed to wait until someone is injured or killed before acting?

Back to the meme and perspective. If a coyote, wolf, lion entered my pasture my dogs would kill it even if the predator had not killed a sheep first. The dogs know this is a bad thing to have in the flock. They will act at a mere threat.

Now, what is clear is if Penny wanted to kill the man he could have done so within a few seconds. He did not do that. This is a tragic situation for all. That there are so many violent and ill people running rampant in your cities is incomprehensible. There is no effort to take such people off the streets. That right there is the cause of this unnecessary death. The city is responsible.

The law on this is pretty much the same everywhere: you have to be in fear of serious bodily injury or death for yourself or others before the use of deadly force is justified. So, yeah....you do have to wait until you act. The marine didn't know about this guy's criminal history. And, like I said above, I'm not seeing any reporting that the crazy guy had assaulted anybody or displayed any weapons. I understand he was making threats but the reporting I've seen is conflicting on that issue.

She’s ex-law enforcement. It’s in their nature to look for any reason to justify any assault or murder.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by skb:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

Incredible isn't it?

I have never been able to understand how the party of murdering innocents can be against capital punishment of murderers.....

The party of crazy.....

.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by skb:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by skb:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by skb:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

The most innocent...tell me what exactly an underage abuse victim has done to somehow become less than "the most innocent"?

Strange minds for strange times

I have compassion for them. You ever hear that 2 wrongs don’t make a right?

Ever met a little girl destroyed by perverted family member? Nothing makes that right.

Exactly!

I volunteer to pull lever on the gallows under the perpetrators.

Ill furnish the rope and tie the knot!

But liberals will stop us as inhumane.......they are all for killing babies though....... Evil or lunatics? I can't figure it....

Compassion for those who have no agency in sexual abuse without recourse condemning them to carry and birth their rapist child is not compassion. It is re-victimization.

Also, your compassion does not take into account the dangers to health of having children being forced to give birth.

I hold out hope in the Fact Most Americans disagree with both of you.

Everyone keeps talking about "fear" and I suspect this Marine was never in "fear", but the standard in most states is "reasonable apprehension" of not only death or serious injury to oneself, but to others. Seems totally justified based on what I've heard.

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Originally posted by lavaca:
Everyone keeps talking about "fear" and I suspect this Marine was never in "fear", but the standard in most states is "reasonable apprehension" of not only death or serious injury to oneself, but to others. Seems totally justified based on what I've heard.

Well, two things:

1. You must know more than me about what the dead guy did. Tell us what actions he engaged in that created a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to the marine or others that would have justified the use of deadly force.

2. Is choking somebody to death over a 15 minute period a reasonable application of deadly force in these circumstances?

Let me put it this way: have you heard or seen anything that you think would have justified the marine pulling out a pistol and shooting this guy?

I may just be uninformed. My understanding is the guy was acting nutty and saying nutty things. He never assaulted or attacked anyone did he? The marine just decided to take him to the ground and to choke him out. I guess I'm good with the first part of that if the guy was acting crazy enough. But, choking him out for 15 minutes until he was dead? I can see a jury thinking that was excessive.

No, the Standard in Most states and Texas is one most possess an objective, responsible fear, and the subject fear of Serious physical injury or death to be justified in the use of deadly force.

I have written that Jury Instruction more than you have digits.

Just wrote it last week.

As for the facts applied. I do not know. My gut feeling is the marine did not have reasonable fear. Thus, he is charged with manslaughter which would be imperfect self defense.

Imperfect Self Defense is when one has the subject standard, but is not reasonable in that belief failing the objective standard.

The jury will decide if the facts are present applied to the Use of Deadly Force for Self Protection (What we call it in KY) to justify the homicide. If there is reporting one way or the other, I will opine. Like MM, I do not know the facts.

The jury and trial will tell us.

I would suggest any interacted in deadly use of force in general with Tx focus look up the Armed Attorneys podcast.

Well, I'm going to predict that this ends in a plea-bargain if the Defendant can't get a change of venue to upstate New York.

A properly trained LEO might have de-escalated the situation. Nothing good about this...

TomP, I had to look and see where Moreno Valley was out of curiosity. You must have seen some tremendous changes in CA in your life.

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Originally posted by theback40:
TomP, I had to look and see where Moreno Valley was out of curiosity. You must have seen some tremendous changes in CA in your life.

I came to this area first in 1980, as an electronics nomad, moved around further until 2000, when my wife got grammaw fever and we came back.
Now I'm marooned.

Yes things are different, warehouses and shopping malls where there were dirt and weeds 20 years ago. Lots of apartments.

Some of the old-timers still have their shops on Sunnymead Boulevard, Hall's Radiators is one, and there are others.

The Sunnymead ACE Hardware is still there, and is my go-to place for odd hardware and gun screws.

The Riverside Raceway is gone, replaced by an now-aging shopping mall.

Muskets and Magnums is long gone, the next-to-last good rifle shop. JW Guns was the last one after the owner of Centerfire Firearms died, and JW retired to Montana. Berman's was good, but the owner got tired of new rules and retired. We have a Cabela's nearby with hired counter help, and Big 5, and Turner's. Not the same.

No waterfowling for awhile now, they may be short-stopping further north. We used to get a fair number of geese. Breast meat, grilled in bacon.

You can still get fresh citrus at the Gless Ranch, for now. The groves used to use smudge pots but we don't seem to get hard freezes any longer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...1b2cc28d3452e9&ei=91

Libertarian journalist details the 'growing bloodlust among right-wing pundits and politicians'
Story by Alex Henderson • 14h ago

Grand Jury issued indictment yesterday.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/15...-subway-jordan-neely