quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

Interesting, these firebreathing bad asses on this forum seem inordinately focused on fear. Oh, my god, the nut may hurt them. Nothing more than their own projections of their own Lilly livers. Lane makes assinine statements like “the fearful never act”. Bull crap, the coward will always act in an irrational manner; be it to lash out or to cower with piss running down his leg.

This fucking marine was a cowardly bastard riven with fear. If the black had been a Mike Tyson type or Labron James, the spineless cockersucker’s penny loafer would have been filling with urine rather than acting.

The dead guy didn't get the chance to become violent because he wasn't allowed to do so. A properly applied choke hold is supposed to cut off the blood supply to the brain. It is not necessarily deadly force and is, in fact, just the opposite. This choke was improperly applied.
Schrodinger,
Speaking of firebreathing (make believe) bad asses, look in the mirror, Buddy. Regards, Bill.

Police and military have been taught chokeholds forever. Cat, you dumbass, it's exactly what is taught to subdue a larger opponent. I have choked out many, and been choked out in training. It is not deadly when done properly. Some of you need to go to a Ju Jitsu class or two and learn something.

40 you are absolutely correct.

This guy had all the opportunities to defend himself, it is not as if the Marine shot him or hit him in the head with a club. Unfortunately the guy died but hell you act crazy and bother and or threaten people you better be prepared to defend yourself.

Neely had over 40 violations, including breaking a womans eyesocket. On a list in the top 50 for the city to watch as he was violent and refused treatment. I'm not much of one to gamble, but would put coin on Penny not getting convicted.
Two other men stepped in to help Penny subdue him, so it was not just Penny who saw a threat.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

The most innocent...tell me what exactly an underage abuse victim has done to somehow become less than "the most innocent"?

Strange minds for strange times

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

The most innocent...tell me what exactly an underage abuse victim has done to somehow become less than "the most innocent"?

Strange minds for strange times

I have compassion for them. You ever hear that 2 wrongs don’t make a right?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

The most innocent...tell me what exactly an underage abuse victim has done to somehow become less than "the most innocent"?

Strange minds for strange times

I have compassion for them. You ever hear that 2 wrongs don’t make a right?

Ever met a little girl destroyed by perverted family member? Nothing makes that right.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The fearful don’t act.

The noble choking of a man to prevent him from becoming violent. Rationalization only a pro life conservative could manage.

It takes a strange mind to waste a thought worrying about the life of that sicko while not giving a rat’s ass about the most innocent human life on earth. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone even conceives that as logic.

The most innocent...tell me what exactly an underage abuse victim has done to somehow become less than "the most innocent"?

Strange minds for strange times

I have compassion for them. You ever hear that 2 wrongs don’t make a right?

Ever met a little girl destroyed by perverted family member? Nothing makes that right.

Exactly!

I volunteer to pull lever on the gallows under the perpetrators.

Of course, our big tough firebreathers would whistling a completely different tune if a black man choked a white dude for fifteens.

There’s a theory that white guys with small dicks are most fearful of blacks. You think there’s any truth to that theory?

So NYC, a bastion of liberalism, and a place that claims it wants to help folks has a guy who has repeatedly gained attention of the authorities and has assaulted folks...

Yet they don't commit him to treatment.

They don't insist that he get treatment, and enforce it (like maybe having all these social workers actually check up on him...)

They just keep letting a violently mentally ill man loose on the streets...

We all seem to admit that mental illness is a problem.

Yet, the folks in NYC seem to think getting gun control will stop situations like this (no gun used BTW)...

I don't like the idea of vigilantism. Unfortunately, our bigger communities seem to prefer spending their resources on some other problems... and get surprised when the folks dealing with these problems don't want to let them deal with it.

When you are on some top 50 problem list in a city like NYC, you thing they would have addressed it.

I don't have a problem with this being investigated and if the guy who killed this person is really in the wrong, him paying a price... but the DA who prosecuted the ill guy for breaking that woman's eye socket is every bit as much to blame as that Marine (and the two others). The ill guy should not have been there doing that.

Schro,

Why make this a race thing?
I noted earlier. That train was likely filled with a diverse group of people. Has anyone present complained about the situation?
If someone on the train car thought what was transpiring was out of order (subduing the individual) I would think someone would be capitalizing on it negatively.
Where is Al Sharpton?

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Of course, our big tough firebreathers would whistling a completely different tune if a black man choked a white dude for fifteens.

Doc B, I brought all of those points up earlier. To a lib, only their feeling matter.
If Neely was held for 15 min as claimed, there was no way Penny was trying to kill him. He would know as well as I do, if he wanted Neely dead, he would have swung his hips to the side and used his shoulder to dislocate/break his neck. In the video, Penny never even arched his back to increase pressure. Keeping him in a choke hold puts your nostrils and eyes at risk. He was trying to subdue.
If a black man is in similar situation and kills a white, asian, Jew, or any other denomination, I'll come out and tell him good job.
The race is just a talking point libs jump on.

Kinda ironic to see so many members here actively participating in their own emasculation. Somehow they think they have superior intelligence while doing so. Bizarre, but required lockstep behavior to be entre nous in their circles.

JudgeG, if you are or were ever a judge, you certainly didn’t master the art of the written word. Your post like 90% of them posted by your fellow loons is barely understandable.
Question, where does the “judge” come from, or are you of those southerners that like to self-attach neat sounding monikers to their god given name, like Colonel or Captain or General?

I can't see the sense in waiting for an assailant to make physical contact before subduing the assailant or defending yourself. If a feller said more than once he was going to punch me in the nose I'd take the time to make sure he doesn't. Waiting for the assailant to swing first seems stupid.

Scott, I agree with you, but if an assailant says he’s going to punch you in the nose, you don’t have the right to kill him. You don’t have the right to choke him as hard as you can for 15 minutes. Some say, that the deceased continued to struggle.

Funny, how when you cut a guy’s breath off, he won’t much like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Scott, I agree with you, but if an assailant says he’s going to punch you in the nose, you don’t have the right to kill him. You don’t have the right to choke him as hard as you can for 15 minutes. Some say, that the deceased continued to struggle.

Funny, how when you cut a guy’s breath off, he won’t much like it.

Of course you're right.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Neely had over 40 violations, including breaking a womans eyesocket. On a list in the top 50 for the city to watch as he was violent and refused treatment. I'm not much of one to gamble, but would put coin on Penny not getting convicted.
Two other men stepped in to help Penny subdue him, so it was not just Penny who saw a threat.

But, he was trying to turn his life around.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Neely had over 40 violations, including breaking a womans eyesocket. On a list in the top 50 for the city to watch as he was violent and refused treatment. I'm not much of one to gamble, but would put coin on Penny not getting convicted.
Two other men stepped in to help Penny subdue him, so it was not just Penny who saw a threat.

The dumbest excuse for murdering a man. None of us would have broken bread or had a glass of spirits with this man, but what the fuck, you can kill him then?

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Neely had over 40 violations, including breaking a womans eyesocket. On a list in the top 50 for the city to watch as he was violent and refused treatment. I'm not much of one to gamble, but would put coin on Penny not getting convicted.
Two other men stepped in to help Penny subdue him, so it was not just Penny who saw a threat.

The dumbest excuse for murdering a man. None of us would have broken bread or had a glass of spirits with this man, but what the fuck, you can kill him then?

That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Was this guy trying to defend himself and others and had an unfortunate outcome, or was it an attempt to kill him out and out?

Both guy's histories tend to make it sound like an actual case of self defense... on one side a USMC vet who put his life on the line for country and his fellow citizens, on the other, a guy who has a known history of attacking other people...

But then the evidence is apparently a bit questionable.

Sounds like the lefty DA's in NYC went with the presumption of its better to let the jury decide than to make a potentially unpopular decision since we really don't have many facts out there.

I will trust the system to work.

I don't think given the evidence presented so far that I would vote to convict, but then again, I am probably a bit biased.

Should have consulted a grand jury.

“That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Was this guy trying to defend himself and others and had an unfortunate outcome, or was it an attempt to kill him out and out?”

There is a 3rd option and that is that he was negligent.

Cat, you told of yourself chasing a crook out of a coffee shop. Of which I applaud you for. That was not needed, as he left, and could have turned ugly, but your intent was never the death of the man. Penny was trying to do good. Even the mayor was on his side until he got pushback.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Should have consulted a grand jury.

This would be correct and the reason they didn't was the fear that the city would explode when the guy got no-billed.

I don't know what the law is in NY and it's likely not consistent with Texas law in this regard. And I'm not a criminal lawyer, but it's my understanding that it's not only "self-defense" that is a defense, but also "defense of others". From what I've heard, pretty much everyone was afraid of this nut job. While the Marine may not have been afraid of imminent death or serious injury to himself, if he had that fear for other innocent parties, would his actions not be justified under NY law? Welcome thoughts from NY lawyers.

Back40, I never would have killed the man unless I felt that he was a DEADLY THREAT to myself or others.

I suppose there is one sketchy excuse: Once the marine had jumped him and taken him down, the marine was fearful the dude if released was now a real physical threat to others. Once you take a man down and mauled him some, was the marine really that much of a chicken shit?

It’s an objective standard, not a subjective standard that got that fat little bastard, Rittenhouse, off in Wisconsin.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
It’s an objective standard, not a subjective standard that got that fat little bastard, Rittenhouse, off in Wisconsin.

He is a hero!

But, you lot like to support criminals and crimes.

Hunter Biden?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
It’s an objective standard, not a subjective standard that got that fat little bastard, Rittenhouse, off in Wisconsin.

He is a hero!

But, you lot like to support criminals and crimes.

Hunter Biden?

MBS?? Now that is a real criminal, a murderer, and because he is family, you look the other way and pretend that is not the case.

Your stretching Cat. You chased him.
If he had turned to "defend" himself it would have turned into a you or him conflict. You are being a lawyer to the core, twist and turn, twist and turn.

Does anybody know for a fact what the dead guy did that precipitated the chokeout? Did he physically assault the marine or some other passenger?

Also, does anybody know what the cause of death actually was? Are there autopsy results?

I'm not one to second-guess someone in a lethal force situation where you have a legitimate fear of death or serious bodily injury but why would it be necessary to choke this guy for 15 minutes? If the choke hold was properly applied, he would have blacked out in less than 30 seconds, right? So, why did the guy keep choking him for 15 minutes?

You are right MM. His choke hold was more a restraint, as was the two men holding his arms and legs. Different reports on what he actually did... If I remember, autopsy said asphyxiation, dont hold me to that. If Penny wanted him out, it would have been easy, if he wanted him dead like some claim, he would have just shifted his body to dislocate his neck. I think Penny and the others were trying to subdue him, and it went wrong.
I am looking at it from a fighters viewpoint, my area of expertise, not a law point.

What if…someone got hurt and nobody stood up to defend…

All of us would be screaming “ cowards “ , condemning everyone there and recalling laws that meant to punish people in dangerous situations for doing nothing

quote:

Originally posted by Kanec:
What if…someone got hurt and nobody stood up to defend…

All of us would be screaming “ cowards “ , condemning everyone there and recalling laws that meant to punish people in dangerous situations for doing nothing

That would be a moral argument in a post moral America.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Should have consulted a grand jury.

This would be correct and the reason they didn't was the fear that the city would explode when the guy got no-billed.

So why aren’t you upset about the NY AG’s office?

Isn’t the right way to do this go to a grand jury and then to trial if there is any question?

An interesting perspective.

Seems the deceased had an extensive violent history? Would Penny's actions be deemed heroic only if a gun was involved? Are people supposed to wait until someone is injured or killed before acting?

Back to the meme and perspective. If a coyote, wolf, lion entered my pasture my dogs would kill it even if the predator had not killed a sheep first. The dogs know this is a bad thing to have in the flock. They will act at a mere threat.

Now, what is clear is if Penny wanted to kill the man he could have done so within a few seconds. He did not do that. This is a tragic situation for all. That there are so many violent and ill people running rampant in your cities is incomprehensible. There is no effort to take such people off the streets. That right there is the cause of this unnecessary death. The city is responsible.