The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum A question re: chronology of events at the Capitol.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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It’s occurred to me that the scaffold to “Hang Mike Pence!” couldn’t have been erected spontaneously in a few moments. That took premeditation, and was on site before anyone knew whether or not Pence would ratify the election results - and even as Trump was exhorting Pence to refuse, and was agitating the crowd (“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol..“, etc.) and (“We’re going to fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore!”) Then factor in an pre-established slate of ‘replacement’ electors…? How can anyone consider this anything other than a premeditated and active incitement of a riot, and an active effort to overthrow the election? This is literally the textbook definition of both sedition and insurrection. | ||
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It'd be a mistake to say I've actually been paying attention, but my recollection seems to be somewhere along the following: "It's ok when it's our guys/ team" "Look over there, those guys are doing it and getting away with it so we should too!" "If he hasn't been convicted yet he can't be presumed guilty yet in any venue. That he said it, what he said meets the dictionary definition of a crime is regardless.!" (That one is a favorite of mine since apparently you can witness a murderer committing murder but you are required to presume his innocence despite what your own eyes and ears tell you until after a conviction and all appeals are exhausted,). In conclusion, if nobody has been convicted of building a gallows for Mike Pence it actually never happened.  | |||
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I assume that this is meant to be humorous, but if you are a witness and on the stand how can you testify to what you saw if you are required to presume him innocent? I saw him do it, but he didn't do it. I expect that that requirement extends mainly to the jurors. I OTOH can presume whatever the hell I want and I am 110% sure that he is guilty. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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And where does one stash a scaffold in DC near the Capitol? On that day no less? | |||
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the guy with the pipe bomb folded it up in the bushes. | |||
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I did mean to be humorous but I'm under the impression we've been told repeatedly here on the pf that, (in this specific subject,) if there's been no conviction the subject of conversation is innocent. So, even though Don Trump called for the suspension of the Constitution and called for Mike Pence to not certify the election, (Don's words, not mine,) and those words meet the dictionary definition of sedition,...... right, Trump is to be presumed innocent by all here without a conviction at trial. It all makes perfect sense to me | |||
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Was there a grassy knoll nearby as well? | |||
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Now, now, to give credit where due- there were TWO mysterious placings of 'pipe bombs'. All the cameras around those locations and no one has any idea how such got there. Laughable forever. ~Ann   | |||
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Tim McVeigh only needed one van. | |||
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Some of them had sweatshirts made in advance "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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 That thing was basically a prop for skit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Inconvenient facts to this lot. | |||
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And, the take-over of the United States Capital by insurrectionist trumptards was just Act II in the skit. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Mike, You must admit the gallows are a gimmick prop. The picture tells all. Yes, a handful of total morons created a tragic event that day with a riot of epic stupidity. I can agree with you on that. Beyond that…the facts don’t make it into more. Back to the gallows for a minute. Someone had to haul those in and set it up. There are countless selfies and pictures of them there for hours. Why did police allow them to stay? I suspect because they looked at them as a prop as well…an inoperable “symbol” to hanging in effigy. Another thing we can probably agree that was in poor taste. None the less…they were NOT part of some preconceived plot to overthrow the government and actually hang someone. Don’t you agree? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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And all the zip-tie restraints were just for the BDSM after-party... "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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So let me get this straight Jeff. These unarmed idiots were going to subdue Pence defeating armed police. They were going to zip-tie handcuff him and walk him all the way from Capitol to this mock-up gallows and attempt hanging him. And they believed they would encounter no armed resistance between the Capitol and this prop out on Mall. Is that^^^the scenario you are suggesting? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I agree it was a prop that couldn't have been used to actually hang someone. I disagree that it was not some part of a preconceived plot to change the outcome of the election. That's what that group of morons was there to do that day. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Great! At least we can agree on something. I will go further and state I can agree that some of the idiots participating in the riot did have a preconceived plan that they thought would effect some change. This had to be the stupidest thought process that ever crossed anyone’s mind as well. Beyond that…I don’t believe there was any conspiracy. There was passion and hyperbolic words yes. The gallows was a prop and that alone dispels TWs evidence of conspiracy he was running with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Easy answer for the MAGAggots, the FBI built the scaffold with materials supplied by the Capitol Police, airlifted in by silent black helicopters authorized by Nancy Pelosi. It's obvious. Mike | |||
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Obviously “someone” brought it in. And, obviously police allowed it to stay. I have seen no evidence stating “who” brought it in and I am sure there is camera surveillance that can demonstrate who did. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Please. The FBI was way too busy planting pipe bombs.... -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Who did plant the non-functional pipe-bombs? Again the investigation shows the area in which they were found was thoroughly covered with camera surveillance. Why don’t we have an apprehension? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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. . . because it was the FBI wearing their special ops suits that make them invisible.  Mike | |||
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I have never credited MAGAts with any propensity towards logic. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Its a valid question.....so it will be mocked by those that want a foregone conclusion  | |||
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I don’t buy that the FBI planted them. I have no idea why they can’t find the person. Perhaps because there were so many folks around and the video footage isn’t precise enough? Someone dropping off even gag pipebombs is probably going to hide their identity. That being said, I don’t buy this as a serious attempt. Maybe some of the individuals involved had deeper plans, but most of the folks were there because they were upset Biden won for whatever reason (and yes, I’m sure a lot of them thought there had been wholesale fraud at that time… the media had been overtly favoring one outcome, so why would the other side all the sudden decide that they were being truthful given that the president was saying elsewise)… I’m all for finding these folks liable under the law for what they did. The individuals they have proof of being in a seditious conspiracy deserve long sentences. The rest of them should be treated under law as rioters or trespassers. I do find it interesting the difference in how these folks are getting treated vs other riotous protestors and yet the left refuses to admit the obvious. There is a two (or more) tiered system here. Just because some of you think it’s false equivalence doesn’t make everyone agree with you. | |||
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The offenders are treated differently because there is a material difference in their actions. If someone cannot see a material difference in a street riot and looting versus a violent attack on the Nation’s Capitol they are just not interested in being objective. Mike | |||
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There is a difference in the way they want to change things… mechanism of government vs brute force intimidation in what you are claiming. Again some small number of the protestors in general did do what you claim. But isn’t it part of common law (our heritage but not precedent) that in order for an act to be illegal it has to be possible that it would work? A bunch of Capitol police with guns and body armor and good communications. Secret service agents with full auto weapons plus lots of training in dignitary protection and knowledge of the terrain. Versus some small percentage of guys with zip ties and some guns in cars? Oh and an obvious effigy gallows? These guys had as much chance of taking over the US by force as the Portland or Minneapolis rioters. I have no problem with arresting these guys, but it’s hardly a national emergency. Similarly, I feel Trump failed in his duty and is incompetent at the job for various reasons. But after Marion Barry was allowed to run again, our precedent seems to be that regardless of how bad a choice, if the voters want it, we let them have it. I do tend to agree that if we start telling the electorate who they can vote for we are on a slippery slope to dictatorship way down the line. More so than “Trump is a fascist and will become a Hitler” is right. | |||
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"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I can see some significant design flaws in that scaffold. The thing is, right up until they decided to storm the capitol building(after being incited to do so by Donald Trump), this was a group of peaceful protesters. At least what passes for peaceful these days. Ultimately, I think the whole thing can be considered to be over. It's a dead horse which will not respond to beating. Regards, Bill | |||
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Because about half of your ass-clown buddies that were present were wearing surgical masks, pulled-up balaclavas or gas masks that covered their faces? Here's a picture of one of your pals that illustrates the problem. This one won a Pulitzer prize. https://clarknow.clarku.edu/20...ize-for-jan-6-photo/ Believing that the FBI or anybody associated with the government planted those pipe bombs is the same as believing that trump lost because of election fraud. It's factually unsupported bullshit. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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"some small number of protesters"???!! There were 10,000 that participated in the riot. Over 2,000 entered the Capital Building. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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You know, it appears we're not even talking about the right topic here. According to some reports, not only were the pipe bombs planted by the government, the rioters didn't even bring or build the gallows. It was "Anti-trump" operatives. >>>Lawyer Ed Martin, who has helped over 100 riot suspects fight their cases, has reviewed hours of video and believes that the structure from which a noose was hung was planted by anti-Trump operatives, not the election protesters.<<< https://www.washingtonexaminer...built-jan-6-gallows/ Never mind that he's a lawyer defending over 100 of the seditionists. And, that it's that bastion of reliable ass-wipe reporting, The Washington Examiner, publishing this nonsense....Something else for you whackjobs to believe.  -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Don't those posts look like 4X4s? For the most part, the riot was organized about like a panty raid, but this piece was workable. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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I dunno, they look like 2x4's to me....without any bracing. Plus, it looks like one nail is halfway pounded in holding on the top piece. Might be able to hang a chihuahua but not Mike Pence. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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And how many convicted of seditious conspiracy? The crowd was 10,000. 2000 broke and entered. How many were carrying firearms and zip ties? Again, not complaining that the guys who actually did something got arrested and convicted. I’m just wishing a similar percentage were held accountable in Minneapolis.
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Pre-cut in advance and transported and assembled for an impromptu "riot"... "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Doc, I think we've had this discussion. Not excusing the behavior of the rioters in your neck of the woods but there is a world of difference between protesting social conditions and engaging in an effort to overturn a general election for POTUS. It's not analagous. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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There is the disconnect. You think rioting for one reason is better than another, I don’t. | |||
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Well, we can agree to condemn all rioting but all rioting ain't the same in terms of a claimed justification. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum A question re: chronology of events at the Capitol.
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