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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here (excerpts) It Can't Happen Here is a 1935 dystopian political novel by American author Sinclair Lewis.[1] Set in the fictionalized version of 1930s United States, it follows an American politician, Berzelius "Buzz" Windrip, who quickly rises to power to become the country's first outright dictator (in allusion to Adolf Hitler's rise to power in Nazi Germany) and Doremus Jessup, a newspaper editor who sees Windrip's fascist policies for what they are ahead of time and who becomes Windrip's most ardent critic. The novel was adapted into a play by Lewis and John C. Moffitt in 1936.[2] Premise The novel was published during the heyday of fascism in Europe, which was reported on by Dorothy Thompson, Lewis's wife.[3] The novel describes the rise of Berzelius "Buzz" Windrip, a demagogue who is elected President of the United States, after fomenting fear and promising drastic economic and social reforms while promoting a return to patriotism and "traditional" values. After his election, Windrip takes complete control of the government via self-coup and imposes totalitarian rule with the help of a ruthless paramilitary force, in the manner of European fascists such as Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. The novel's plot centers on journalist Doremus Jessup's opposition to the new regime and his subsequent struggle against it as part of a liberal rebellion. Presidency of Donald Trump Several writers have compared the demagogue Buzz Windrip to Donald Trump. Michael Paulson wrote in The New York Times that the Berkeley Repertory Theatre's 2016 rendition of the play aimed to provoke discussion about Trump's presidential candidacy.[36] Writing for The Guardian, Jules Stewart discussed the similarities between Trump's America with the country as depicted in the book.[37] In Salon, Malcolm Harris stated: "Like Trump, Windrip uses a lack of tact as a way to distinguish himself" and "The social forces that Windrip and Trump invoke aren’t funny, they’re murderous."[38] In The Washington Post, Carlos Lozada compared Trump to Windrip, opining that "it is impossible to miss the similarities between Trump and totalitarian figures in American literature."[39] Jacob Weisberg wrote in Slate that one "can’t read Lewis's novel today without flashes of Trumpian recognition."[40] Following the results of the 2016 United States presidential election, sales of It Can't Happen Here surged significantly, and it appeared on Amazon.com's list of bestselling books.[41] Penguin Modern Classics released a new edition of the novel on January 20, 2017, the same day as the inauguration of Donald Trump.[42] ========================================================== Nazi Town, USA | Full Documentary | AMERICAN EXPERIENCE | PBS https://www.youtube.com/watch?...icanExperience%7CPBS 1,012,512 views Apr 2, 2024 In February 1939, more than 20,000 Americans filled Madison Square Garden for an event billed as a “Pro-American Rally.” Images of George Washington hung alongside swastikas, underlining the organizers' belief that Nazism was entirely consistent with American ideals. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | ||
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And concisely. That link I posted above, the documentary from PBS American Experience is shocking. I wasn't aware, or had forgotten, the many historical facts it covers. I remembered some about Charles Lindbergh's political views. I copied another link which starts at 43.03: https://youtu.be/g9HmV_-EE8g?s...CzbKcqqKmxPwu&t=2583 The Lindbergh part starts at 46:18. If you don't have the time or will to watch the whole program, then start at 46:18 through the end. IMO, it's worth watching the whole thing although it's long. It's a reminder that it can happen here. One of the slogans reveled in the documentary, "Make America Great Again" was used by the Christian Nationalist Nazi group back in the 30's. Also "America First". XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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We are a lot closer to a Soviet style command economy than we are to fascism. Just saying. | |||
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"An administrative-command system managed a distinctive form of central planning. The Soviet economy was characterized by state control of investment, prices, a dependence on natural resources, lack of consumer goods, little foreign trade, public ownership of industrial assets, macroeconomic stability, low unemployment and high job security." ================================================ I don't think so, Doc. The reason I posted the links in the OP was to show that we have been there before. The same deniers as you were there too, all along. Much the same influences then are now. This far right fear of communism is a fantasy. If you deny that Trumpism is home grown fascism, then you are part of the problem. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Trump is home grown, yes. He has his politically repugnant elements, yes. He isn’t fascism, and the attempts to call it such are pure progressive agitprop that folks like you eat up. I have a great deal of disgust that Trump thinks of himself as above the constitution and that it should be applied as he thinks. But newsflash- so do the progressives and Biden. They are just much more likely to put their ways into the proper language to not get people riled up. They work more as LHeym puts it “in the process” rather than by blunt declarations. You don’t think this whole green energy thing isn’t attempting command economy? | |||
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IMO "this whole green energy thing" is an attempt to reconcile reality with action rather that alt-reality and doing the same over and over again expecting different results. Also, I don't think "progressives" are saying stuff, nonsense, to "get people riled up". That's what Fox does. You are projecting, making false equivalences, denying, relying on conspiracy theory, etc., all in one post. That quite a load. Congrats.  And Trump himself is not what I call home-grown re the Nation. He's just a spoiled, narcissist rich brat who manipulates. Trumpism is home-grown. It's the same as it was back in the 30s. It never went away, just under a rock. Even if it goes back under the rock, like the 50-year Cicada hatch, it will be back. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Look at the crap from squad members re the whole Gaza situation Look at a lot of the diatribe about refund the police. Nonsense the left doesn’t say things just to get a reaction. It’s just that like Obama when they were talking about the riots- he said things in such a way that you know he was supporting the contention, but not saying go riot. Trump said fight, take back, etc. and then no violence. He was either not trained in how to get your point across without crossing a line or he knew and just didn’t care. Yes, in my mind conspicuous stupidity is disqualifying and Trump shows it in spades, hearts, clubs and diamonds. | |||
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President Trump directed the VP to decertify the election he was told was a due election and he lost in the courts. President Trump did not use his power to stop the violence because he wanted to violence to force the VP to follow that unconstitutional directive. That is not equal to your examples. President Trump as a defeated President had a higher level of responsibility to transition the government peacefully than a rep from nowhere saying we need to stop federal grants for local law enforcement. | |||
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That is what I was responding to. I do not deny Trump did what you are saying there LHeym. And if you look at it as binary of right/wrong, then it is similar. If you are insisting that you can pick up a turd by its less stinky end, then go for it. Your hand will still smell afterwards. Maybe not as badly, but it will still smell. | |||
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Actually he would smell, his hand would stink. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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I interpreted Doc's comment to be regarding the "progressives" in the media. I don't pay any attention to the "Squad". MTG gets my goat. I know several people who say they watch Fox for the truth. Well, I don't watch Fox for the truth, but sometimes I read or see stuff from Fox just to keep up with the frenzy of lies and affirmations they are spouting currently. I think what Doc keeps saying is just a fancier way of making false equivalences. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Both house and senate members are big on wealth caps and wealth distribution. Obo handed the UAW retirement program 21 billion. Biden added 80-90 billion to them in the ARP. Biden is giving taxpayer money/ wealth redistribution to pay off college debt. This is all fascism on the dems side. Yet Kabob cant see the forest for the trees. | |||
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Thats interesting because i look at the squad and MTG through basically the same lense. The crazy fringe of decent parties. | |||
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Gee, I wonder who in here he is referring to?.... https://youtube.com/shorts/6hL...?si=fSc83Oc_9jBtYV5- | |||
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That's not fascism--it's socialism. | |||
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socialism makes up part of fascism. Fascism is the most complicated mish mash I have ever studied on. | |||
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Exactly^^^ Socialism is a prerequisite to Fascism. Something most of these libs here always forget. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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just wanted to capture this "fair and balanced" nugget #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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And trump gave up a trillion dollar tax gift to the wealthiest in the country. That about 50-1. In your mind, that's equivalent. | |||
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And what has that got to do with defining fascism wymple? | |||
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I responded to your comment you used as an example of socialism. | |||
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As you dont understand shit. Socialism is a part of fascism. You could not call one of the US parties fascist, without it being said of the other. If you want to bitch about both parties handing out endless money, start your own thread on the topic. | |||
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It's complicated. That's why I posted info supporting the notion that Fascism is home grown. And, it's always fomented in the far-right. To relate to what's happening now, it's almost unavoidable to reference the historical Fascism, in the 30's etc. IMO, that's a mistake and serves to make current events, Trumpism in particular, more confusing. But anyway, here are some articles and other info to show how opinions and analysis of facts vary: The title headings tell what follows. The first article somewhat contradicts the heading within the body of the article. https://fee.org/articles/there...st-roots-of-fascism/ There’s No Denying the Socialist Roots of Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile Giovanni Gentile https://www.theatlantic.com/ne...l&utm_campaign=share Is it Fascism? Is it Socialism? Words mean things. By Tom Nichols FEBRUARY 11, 2022 https://rlo.acton.org/archives...eQZwIbhoCNO4QAvD_BwE 5 Facts about fascism (there's a lot more) XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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You posted the comment, I responded. STFU and piss off. I responded to a single comment. And like I said, piss off. Maybe Saeed will make you co-owner or moderator so you can order people around, then you can try to control content. | |||
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You responded off topic from my post dickhead. You couldnt even get that right. Obo gave away taxpayer money to the unions. trump let the people have more of their money before sending it in. The truth about Trumps tax cuts by the numbers. by Andy Puzder, yahoo finance. If you want to learn something. But wymple is the one who lives "close enough" to africa to be called black, in his logic. Kabob, as I have said before. Call Tom Twetten, former CIA intel officer and DDA. He is a historic book seller now. He can recommend actual books on fascism, or talk your ear off about what it is. You are posting the media's version, and is simply talking points to sell news. | |||
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... "First they came ..." (German: Zuerst kamen sie ...) is the poetic form of a 1946 post-war confessional prose by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the silence of German intellectuals and clergy — including, by his own admission, Niemöller himself—following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental purging of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution, guilt, repentance, solidarity, and personal responsibility. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum quotes the following text as one of the many poetic versions of the speech:[2][3] First they came for the socialists , and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist . Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Remember when he wrote/published that. It would have been "First they came for the Communists" except that no one in West Germany had any sympathy for the communists given their behavior at the time. His choice of the term socialists was more a sign of the times. The Brown shirts and the reds were constantly battling until Hitler got the upper hand.
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Kabob, there is plenty of issues to bitch about with both parties. When you try to tie one party to fascism, people just block you out as another crazy rant. You posted an opinion piece on fascism from an editor of a womans magazine one time. When it was pointed out, your response was "Well, I agreed with her" Your fascism comparisons are like saying a tricycle is the same as a bicycle because I only look at it from the side. I think the far right R's are full of shit with the pro-life stance. Maybe my single biggest issue with them. I live to work. If I got crippled and couldnt work every day, I would want to say goodby to the world. I'll be dammed if I want someone telling me I cant. Nor should we tell women what they can do. Bitch about the topics, leave the false comparisons out of it just because you think it sounds cool. | |||
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That is a very good analogy! | |||
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I don't think of it as "cool" at all. The problem, IMO, is that too many otherwise apparently sensible people don't take the threat of Trumpism seriously enough. One HAS to ignore or minimize or deny a lot of factors/evidence that Trumpism is akin the fascism to reach the opinion it is not, and comparison with the left is not valid at all. Trumpism is not yet full-blown fascism, but it wants to be. How does one say "fascism" nicely? XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Yes i expect deeper from a very astute poster who i consider a friend. As i said above, both are the fringes. | |||
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You just said it Kabob. It is not yet fascism. Yet, that is the only term you want to use. Fascism is fascism, you cannot pick and choose the parts you want it to be or it is not it. Use your 'trumpism". Then it has it's own exact meaning. You use fascism because you think it has the most bang for the buck, but it is just plain false comparisons. Type that in, you will find endless articles about false equivalence. | |||
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You are still on ignore but I can read your posts when I want to. That doesn't mean I will start engaging with you in debate again. But I'll make exception this time, and maybe more later depending on your behavior. Yes, I can pick and choose. And yes, Trumpism is not full blown fascism - yet. It's a wannabe fascist cult, fully embraced by the GOP, which he owns. See Heritage Foundation's Project 25. What are you gonna do - wait utill it matures into full fascism before changing your tune? I did a search as you suggested on "Trumpism fascism false equivalence". Here are the results. There's many articles. I didn't just pick one. You can do that yourself. https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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I haven't claimed to be "fair and balanced". But, isn't admitting that there's an intentional blind spot in what I choose to pay attention to "fair and balanced"? XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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True we all have blind spots. I know I do. That said, MTG is an idiot and does not represent many in the party. The same should be said of Omar. Im not a fan of "my sides crazy is better than your sides crazy". Both pander to sound bites more than they accomplish things. | |||
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I have read many false equivalence articles. I never panic about things that have not happened yet. I watch, but I never fear things that have yet to happen. I actually fear nothing, just adapt as needed! You can pick and choose which parts, but it just makes you wrong. Just as I dont call the lefts wealth redistribution fascism. It's a trait, but does not encompass everything a fascist goverment covers. Kabob, you dont get it. My behavior is only triggered by yours. | |||
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No, you don't get it. I do my best to NOT let your behavior trigger mine. When it becomes just too much to deal with the best thing is to just ignore you. But if you post reasonable argument and don't make it personal, I can respond in kind with that. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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I could argue the false equivalence thing, but won't. From what little I've seen of the "squad" they don't seem to be pandering. MTG, no doubt, that's what she does, plus apparently, she thinks (???) saying crazy stuff loudly is a good thing from her platform. Where she's coming from is a crazy state of mind. The squad, OTOH, are serious ideologues, but not crazy, IMO. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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