In her very first speech as the presumptive nominee.


That is all I need to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
In her very first speech as the presumptive nominee.


That is all I need to know.

Someone would have to point it out to me if all the assault weapons in the world magically disappeared one day. I'm 53, make my living in the gun trade, never fired an AR platform or a .223 and have zero desire to do so. As a hunter and a shooter, I do not feel that the proliferation of assault weapons over the last 20 plus years has been beneficial to our sport in the least. I know many of you see it differently.

Steve

An honest question.

What if she had said “ban the same of fine rifles and shotguns”?



As Benjamin Franklin said. “We must all hang together or we will assuredly all hang seperatly”. (I paraphrased).

Take a step back and look at the whole situation objectively. Public sentiment was not on the side of the gun grabbers 20 plus years ago, it is now. Why do you think that is? Look at the image gun owners have in public. It is not that of a hunter, or of a home owner wanting protection, we look like wanna be Rambo's to the average person. You don't win in politics by playing to those folks already on your side but rather by convincing the middle and the undecided. The gungrabbers are doing a hell of a lot better job convincing those that are on the fence that they are in the right than we are.

Our all or nothing, no ground given position is not helping win the middle or helping us keep our gun rights. Things continue to tighten down and I feel the change in the gun industry is partly to blame.

I'm not going to change the direction of the industry, I'm not near that naïve, but I do think at times we are our own worst enemy.

Banning firearms, or any sort of weapon, will never stop crime!

Objects never kill anyone.

People do!

As anyone who can read could see
All rifles crime is less than 3% of crime and has been for decades

Pistols, not revolvers, are the 85+% of the crimes

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
As anyone who can read could see
All rifles crime is less than 3% of crime and has been for decades

Pistols, not revolvers, are the 85+% of the crimes

How does the average soccer mom see the issue?

You have to win the middle and the undecided votes, not those of gun owners.

Steve.

I will shoot you a reasoned reply I this as I see some good and debatable points I. Your reply.

I fortunately I have to run off to work.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
As anyone who can read could see
All rifles crime is less than 3% of crime and has been for decades

Pistols, not revolvers, are the 85+% of the crimes

How does the average soccer mom see the issue?

You have to win the middle and the undecided votes, not those of gun owners.

So, everyone should always bow down to ignorance?


.

The left does not wantto ban AR type guns, they want all guns banned.
Saying, well, I dont shoot those, so I dont care plays right into the gun grabbers hands.
Hard to believe some people cant see that. They are looking for a foot in the door.

Political cross-dressing. Express sympathy for poor Donald, while sticking it to his constituency.
We expected this...

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
The left does not wantto ban AR type guns, they want all guns banned.
Saying, well, I dont shoot those, so I dont care plays right into the gun grabbers hands.
Hard to believe some people cant see that. They are looking for a foot in the door.

This is true.

The Left (read Socialists/Communists/Democrats), wants to ban all guns.

The Left is doing that in Colorado again, by trying to outlawing 'sport' hunting of lions. Back in the 90's, they attacked spring bear hunting in Colorado and we lost the ability even though game managers/biologists said there was no biological reason to ban it.

Todays Left (Socialists/Communists/Democrats) operates the same way the Nazi's did, by demonizing what THEY don't like, be it AR-15's, hunting, driving gas powered cars, using fuel to heat homes and cook food, etc., etc., etc.

As a wise man once said, "The Left destroys everything it touches".

Ask yourself a question, if the assault weapons ban had not been lifted, would the left have been able to achieve the gun control gains that they have made recently? I do not believe that they could have. I believe that the change in our gun culture, the increased militarization has created a political environment which has allowed the left to achieve many of its goals.

I know many of you will not agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
I believe that the change in our gun culture, the increased militarization has created a political environment which has allowed the left to achieve many of its goals.

I know many of you will not agree.

I do agree, but the increased militarization has been husbanded by more than two decades of perpetual war.
War that we lost, the West was defeated and Americans are angry, belligerent. So they go buy another AR. I think they're buying AR's to right a wrong, fend off the enemy, (imagined or real,) and to assert their manliness. "I am deadly, I have 30 round magazines!".

That kid Rittenhouse, the guy with the AK in Austin that got shot by the soldier, Trump's would be assassin should all have been collared by their mamma who was being backed up by Daddy and "re educated.".

The Left is trying to contain this male frustration and anger by taking away the weapons they use. America need to confront the frustration and anger.

What exactly is an assault rifle? It’s the media’s favourite name for anything black but actually I assume it’s just a name which means nothing.

If you want to reduce spree shootings linking the ability to own a gun with a mental health check in some way might help.

quote:

America need to confront the frustration and anger.

100%^^^

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
The left does not wantto ban AR type guns, they want all guns banned.
Saying, well, I dont shoot those, so I dont care plays right into the gun grabbers hands.
Hard to believe some people cant see that. They are looking for a foot in the door.

While I am actually probably quite similar to Steve in my shooting/hunting hobbies…

..what TB40 says above is 100% correct. If we ever give an inch here…we open the floodgate to lose it all.

And while I don’t enjoy shooting AR/AK style rifles…they are a tool and one I want to have in my toolbox.

I feel the costs associated with having AR platform rifles everywhere far outweigh the gains.

In the last 20 years we have had many more gun laws passed here which I feel would never have been possible if the assault weapons ban remained in place. Today we have, background checks at gunshows, a 3 day wait, increased requirements for concealed carry, a new state regulatory agency for FFL holders, increased safe storage requirements, restrictions on magazine capacity and more.

My feeling is that by lifting the assault weapons ban the political environment that allowed these increased restrictions to pass was created.

I am going to remain Libertarian on guns.

Appeasing the left in the history of this nation has gotten us nowhere.

Maybe Reagan got it wrong on mental health institutions? However, we will never put the cat back in the bag there.

Reagan certainly got it wrong on mental institutions and I feel lifting the assault weapons ban was a mistake as well. We are not better off as a society as our gun culture has militarized. I feel that winning the middle is key to maintaining our gun rights long term and that we are not doing a very good job of that.

Short memories on some here. The left was pushing to ban handguns. Now that the "assult rifles" are in the news, they are focused on them.
How many of you are certain if they ban AR types, they wont go back to a handgun ban in their attacks. Especially as handguns are used in more crimes than rifles.
The ignorance of some here is amazing. Imagine, going to a gun range and hearing gunfire. Fucking moron.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am going to remain Libertarian on guns.

Appeasing the left in the history of this nation has gotten us nowhere.

Maybe Reagan got it wrong on mental health institutions? However, we will never put the cat back in the bag there.

Maybe? He got it wrong. Between mental health and its close relative, drug addiction, virtually every city has a homeless encampment problem. Bill

Not a short memory at all, I said I did not think the gains the left has made would have been possible if the ban had stayed in place, not that they did not want the changes before, they did. The general public today is willing to accept restrictions that would not have been palatable in the past, I feel the changing public opinion is a direct result of the increased militarization of our gun culture and the increased numbers of assault weapons on the market.

Are soccer mom’s educable? If so…the facts are on our side.

I will remain a Libertarian on guns.

I am all for reversing the trend on mental institutions. The problem here is the current crop of psychiatrists…one of the most left leaning groups in the US today and happy to work in the realm of “bad science.”

quote:

Appeasing the left in the history of this nation has gotten us nowhere.

Appeasing the Far-Right - look where it has gotten us.

On the brink of institutionalized Trumpism.

Aside that, I own a few AR 15s and one AR10. They are rigged the least tactical as that firearm type gets. I don't have high capacity mags either. Don't need them. I use mine for hunting specifically. The reason I like them is ease of cleaning, maintenance, and especially the accuracy.

I certainly don't like the way a part of culture has become militarized, militia, open display of ARs and paraphilia, menacing. IMO, they have screwed things up. Of course they have rights too, but flaunting in-our-face like they do is not necessary and counter-productive, and IMO represents something anti-civil (to use a nice word). The problem of course is it's based in hate and the notion that violence is a solution, and a lot of it if not all is a very twisted worldview, affirmed with lies from peers and leaders.

The argument that it's not the gun, but the person is true. The gun is just a tool. Thus, the persons are self-defeating, and the repercussions affect us all in several ways.

I CAN do without my ARs. I have alternatives. But it's just a shame that people can't control their impulses and additionally so many are off the deep end crazy.

I will give you an A- on that post ME.

Here are your soccer moms.

And basically a lot of urban progressives feel this way. I am shocked at how many of these posts are out there.

You can find nutters on either side, the battle is for the middle and the undecided.

Not every liberal is adamantly anti-gun, that is a total fallacy. I know plenty of gun toting Democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Here are your soccer moms.

And basically a lot of urban progressives feel this way. I am shocked at how many of these posts are out there.

I notice the interviewer (kid) here mistakenly suggested that 60% of Americans support Donald Trump. Believing that could cost them the election. The young woman was being candid. She said she didn't advocate for killing Trump; she just wouldn't be devastated if it had happened. I'm sure there are many, who if they were honest, would welcome a head on collision between two buses carrying the Republican and Democrat candidates.
A month ago, we were looking forward to an election between two men who were too old for the job. Now we have one old man and a woman who was rejected when she ran in the primary.
In the case of the old man, at least he was selected by his cult followers through the primary process. The inept woman was selected by the same incapable elites who thought Hillary was a winner.
So, we have two candidates; each will try and outdo the other in finding a way to throw the election. America will lose. Regards, Bill.

She said she wished it had hit him in the forehead. When pressed…she backed off a little.

quote:

Originally posted by frankinthelaurels:
Great, tired of those fucking noise makers and the wannabe Rambo's shooting them at all our local ranges..

I'm right there with you, Frank. I'm not only tired of them, but all the noisemakers. The bastards shooting rifles, handguns, and shotguns are all very annoying as well as endangering us all. I know it won't be easy to get rid of them all, but at least it's a start.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Here are your soccer moms.

And basically a lot of urban progressives feel this way. I am shocked at how many of these posts are out there.

I notice the interviewer (kid) here mistakenly suggested that 60% of Americans support Donald Trump. Believing that could cost them the election. The young woman was being candid. She said she didn't advocate for killing Trump; she just wouldn't be devastated if it had happened. I'm sure there are many, who if they were honest, would welcome a head on collision between two buses carrying the Republican and Democrat candidates.
A month ago, we were looking forward to an election between two men who were too old for the job. Now we have one old man and a woman who was rejected when she ran in the primary.
In the case of the old man, at least he was selected by his cult followers through the primary process. The inept woman was selected by the same incapable elites who thought Hillary was a winner.
So, we have two candidates; each will try and outdo the other in finding a way to throw the election. America will lose. Regards, Bill.

Bill I normally disagree with most of what you post.



You nailed it with this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:

Bill I normally disagree with most of what you post.



You nailed it with this one.

Gosh, I don't know how to take this. The first part of your statement shows you are not thinking clearly The second part, you seem pretty lucid. I am, of course, joking. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Are soccer mom’s educable? If so…the facts are on our side.

I will remain a Libertarian on guns.

I am all for reversing the trend on mental institutions. The problem here is the current crop of psychiatrists…one of the most left leaning groups in the US today and happy to work in the realm of “bad science.”

Another area of expertise for you: psychiatry.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
In her very first speech as the presumptive nominee.


That is all I need to know.

Someone would have to point it out to me if all the assault weapons in the world magically disappeared one day. I'm 53, make my living in the gun trade, never fired an AR platform or a .223 and have zero desire to do so. As a hunter and a shooter, I do not feel that the proliferation of assault weapons over the last 20 plus years has been beneficial to our sport in the least. I know many of you see it differently.

Steve-

Here's how that would evolve; Lets say ALL, AR/AK platform weapons, magically are gone and there simply are none left.

The next shooter, who ascends a building with a scoped .300 Win mag. will create the next new firestorm... "Who needs a sniper rifle" or "Why do you need a sniper rifle to hunt? you must be a terrible shot." and on and on it would go, until there are only H&R single shot .22's left for us to enjoy our 2A freedoms.

However- I do agree with your assertion to a point. WE have allowed the anti-gun movement to define most of us as gore-tex wearing buffoons who feel the need to wear camo and a chest rig to the shooting range.

"I have seen the enemy and it is us."

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
In her very first speech as the presumptive nominee.


That is all I need to know.

Someone would have to point it out to me if all the assault weapons in the world magically disappeared one day. I'm 53, make my living in the gun trade, never fired an AR platform or a .223 and have zero desire to do so. As a hunter and a shooter, I do not feel that the proliferation of assault weapons over the last 20 plus years has been beneficial to our sport in the least. I know many of you see it differently.

Steve-

Here's how that would evolve; Lets say ALL, AR/AK platform weapons, magically are gone and there simply are none left.

The next shooter, who ascends a building with a scoped .300 Win mag. will create the next new firestorm... "Who needs a sniper rifle" or "Why do you need a sniper rifle to hunt? you must be a terrible shot." and on and on it would go, until there are only H&R single shot .22's left for us to enjoy our 2A freedoms.

However- I do agree with your assertion to a point. WE have allowed the anti-gun movement to define most of us as gore-tex wearing buffoons who feel the need to wear camo and a chest rig to the shooting range.

"I have seen the enemy and it is us."

This is the truth.

And I see that we have won more of our freedoms back from the gun grabbers....not lost more....

The end of the AWB
Much easier concealed carry
Many more states with Constitutional carry.
Here in Texas we don't have any waiting period.

We need to keep going. We, they, aren't doing anything about mentally ill people.

And the criminals that do commit crimes with guns are not punished near severely enough. Check criminals in general are not punished near severely enough.....

Ahrenburg is correct, get the " assaultweapons" then handguns, then she's rifles....it will continue.....

.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
In her very first speech as the presumptive nominee.


That is all I need to know.

Someone would have to point it out to me if all the assault weapons in the world magically disappeared one day. I'm 53, make my living in the gun trade, never fired an AR platform or a .223 and have zero desire to do so. As a hunter and a shooter, I do not feel that the proliferation of assault weapons over the last 20 plus years has been beneficial to our sport in the least. I know many of you see it differently.

Steve-

Here's how that would evolve; Lets say ALL, AR/AK platform weapons, magically are gone and there simply are none left.

The next shooter, who ascends a building with a scoped .300 Win mag. will create the next new firestorm... "Who needs a sniper rifle" or "Why do you need a sniper rifle to hunt? you must be a terrible shot." and on and on it would go, until there are only H&R single shot .22's left for us to enjoy our 2A freedoms.

However- I do agree with your assertion to a point. WE have allowed the anti-gun movement to define most of us as gore-tex wearing buffoons who feel the need to wear camo and a chest rig to the shooting range.

"I have seen the enemy and it is us."

This is the truth.

And I see that we have won more of our freedoms back from the gun grabbers....not lost more....

The end of the AWB
Much easier concealed carry
Many more states with Constitutional carry.
Here in Texas we don't have any waiting period.

We need to keep going. We, they, aren't doing anything about mentally ill people.

And the criminals that do commit crimes with guns are not punished near severely enough. Check criminals in general are not punished near severely enough.....

Ahrenburg is correct, get the " assaultweapons" then handguns, then she's rifles....it will continue.....

.

My home, Arizona is pretty safe as far as firearm violence goes.

Our CCW laws are simple, there are none. Concealed carry without a permit.

I tell people this and they can't believe it;

You could get up Saturday morning and go to Cabela's and buy a Bushmaster .50BMG, fill out the computerized 4473 (or whatever the number is) Get a Nightforce scope mounted on it, while you go wait in their cafeteria and eat a shitty cheeseburger.

Pick up a couple hundred rounds of Hornady .50BMG target ammo and be out in the desert shooting the same day.

Why are we safer than most? I don't possess the answers.

I have not checked lately...
There are millions of semi auto's out there, correct? The number used to commit a crime compared to the ones people use for whatever purpose, legally, must be a fraction of a percent. But some libs here think they should be banned, because they dont use them themselves.
I have several, only shoot them when a match pops up nearby, but I know the slippery slope that comes with bans.

“Those PEOPLE bother me when I am at the range”


I’ve seen that a couple times here.


I’m not a shotgunned really. I own a bunch but rarely use them but some of the higher end SxS ones fascinate me.

They are all shooters in my book even the ass hats.