"Rich Men North Of Richmond",
AKA bastards of the beltway.

18 million views in 8 days!

Goosebumps...

Thanks for the share.


.

One hell of a song!!!

Definitely speaks of the anger out there that I can understand.

They should make a song of the utter stupidity of the American voters!

And beats the shit of that stupid thing call rap!

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Definitely speaks of the anger out there that I can understand.

Yes, superficially understandable.

The "why" is the tough part. The anger is real, but is the "why" real or artificially fomented over time and by several means and venues? Is it a sense of lack of control? and so forth.

I always support free speech, in song or otherwise, and support artistic expression of practically all sorts.

So, the song in the OP is okay with me, but it doesn't move me in the way the author intended and/or as it moves others.

It's not an affirmation for me.

This is the style of art and expression that suits me better. It's not fomented, nor embellished beyond obvious truth:

https://youtu.be/AHQ7N9lEl_E

"Nasty Man" by Joan Baez

That does not surprise me.

M.E, You wouldn't by any chance describe yourself as an empath?

quote:

empath

Hummm

I never thought of that.

I had to look it up.

On my computer, I can highlight a word and "search" pops up. The search led me to "healthline". "15 signs You Might Be an Empath".

So, I don't know the answer to your question. There's too much introspection therein - overload. But it's worth the thought - over time.

You may be right. It could be - to some degree.

As we get older, more so. I noticed it in my dad. He came back from WWII that way. The word I previously associated with him was pacifist. Empath shares some of those traits.

The empathy also includes animals in addition to humans. I think it's a learned trait. It's a reflection on life, looking back and remembering the cruel moments and the lack of empathy where it should have been foremost. And thus, it's a correction of sorts, making amends while still possible.

My first thoughts are that it's not a bad thing, better than the flip side, as long as it's not harmful.

For the record, I dont think you are an empath, and thats probably a good thing. Its just that the way you brought this conversation back too trump remained me of the fixation trait that Ive seen in those who self describe themselves as such.
That song to me is bipartisan. Its a commentary that the politicians and bureaucrats of all ilks are looking after their own concerns at the cost of the working man and small business owners.
Maybe put trump aside for a moment and ask what comes before partisan politics that makes people choose a side?


People all over the world are doing it incredibly tough right now. So so many are having to dig deep into thier mental, physical and if they have them, financial reserves just hoping that things will get better.
There is an anger out there that is finely expressed in that song.

Well, if more people were empaths the world might be a better place.

I think your song is as much partisan as the one I posted.

Much of the anger is partisan too. and much of it is fomented. The recognition of and rejection of the partisan anger is not fomented. It's a function of something far different, even flipside. That's the distinguishing thing. It's also the distinguishing thing comparing the two songs.

What makes people choose one side or another?

When we have a good answer to that question, well ----?

Why do people even have worldviews?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Well, if more people were empaths the world might be a better place.

I think your song is as much partisan as the one I posted.

Much of the anger is partisan too. and much of it is fomented. The recognition of and rejection of the partisan anger is not fomented. It's a function of something far different, even flipside. That's the distinguishing thing. It's also the distinguishing thing comparing the two songs.

What makes people choose one side or another?

When we have a good answer to that question, well ----?

Why do people even have worldviews?

Too you that song is partisan. Too me its not. That says much.
We are not even close to talking about the same thing, or being able to. You wish to talk about MAGA and BLM. I dont. I want to recognise the causes that drives either group to lash out.

I think MAGA anger is partisan, and that is what your song is about.

I think BLM type anger is not partisan, but perhaps cultural instead.

But neither song is about BLM, specifically, although I think some lyrics in your song go there. I don't want to listen to it that closely.

As to cause, about as far as I can delve - well, Fox News, Newsmax, etc., foment hate and anger among MAGAotts for profit. There's lots of money in it.

Think about it - BLM has no such propaganda machine to foment their anger.

Also, practically all the hate groups and militia groups are all MAGA. The cristofascists, white nationalists, Flynn and Bannon followers, all MAGA. Other fomenters include all the foundations and groups associated with the Right, such as Heartland, judicial watch, etc. BLM has no counterpart which foments in hate and anger, especially using lies and disinformation or propaganda.

I call your bias.

You should maybe listen too it properly- that you dont is on you.
These guys did.
Perhaps you looked at colour and the music style and followed your hatred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zf9odZDzRo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vFB9d4Npj8

Well, chit, Shanks.

You darn sure got me there with those two links.

I shouldn't have seen that just before going to bed. I might have bad dreams. That's disgusting.

I wish I could shock and awe someone herein as much as you just did.

As dismissive as you are. or can be.

Spend some time and read the comments below each video.
people are not as divided or biased as you, it would seem. Most can see that song for its value and recognise it in their lives.

MAGA and BLM are exactly the same!

Dreamt up by selfish idiots and championed by even more stupid idiots!

How can a career criminal make America great?

How can you stop racism by creating it?

Only in America!

WE ARE FREE!

Yes.

To be stupid!

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro

Hear hear!

I wandered if it would make to the ARPF. Been on 24HCF for a while.

Many here will have a hard time relating to it. It is on my playlist.

It was late and I jumped to conclusions, in haste.

I thought you were messing with me. I may have empathy for those people, but don't ID with them.

After all, I'm a recovering racist. Being an empath, as you suggest, I'm over compensating.

I did as you suggested, and read some of the comments after the first video, (quoted below). Interesting.

Anyway, regarding the anger the song expresses and people can relate to, here's a black guy who has experienced it:

Skip ahead to 3:30 for when he starts his interview.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...9f7aa0e834c75d&ei=55

She uses the words "Earth One" and "alternate reality", and a few other choice words.

The Truth is, IMO, that the anger expressed in your song and others can relate to is a product of Earth Two and alt-reality, which is exactly why we are now with an X_POTUS with multiple charges and indictments, all directly related to the "anger".

It's good to express your feelings, but not good if that song or any other means affirms your anger.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I call your bias.

You should maybe listen too it properly- that you dont is on you.
These guys did.
Perhaps you looked at colour and the music style and followed your hatred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zf9odZDzRo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vFB9d4Npj8

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Well, chit, Shanks.

You darn sure got me there with those two links.

I shouldn't have seen that just before going to bed. I might have bad dreams. That's disgusting.

I wish I could shock and awe someone herein as much as you just did.

So its an alternate reality that people are struggling to make ends meet and view their politicians as out of touch and self serving?



The reason I asked about empaths, is from what Ive seen, those who describe themselves as such are a particular type of narcissist. They have found a way of appearing to care yet its really all about them. Something in your continual need to bring every single conversation back to trump/maga/alt reality themed conversations reminds me of that.
But as I said, I dont think thats the reason with you.

quote:

So its an alternate reality that people are struggling to make ends meet and view their politicians as out of touch and self serving?

Of course that's not what I mean.

I'm glad you asked because I didn't foresee that misunderstanding.

If the anger is whipped-up - fomented - stirred and embellishing grievances, such as what Fox and Newsmax, etc., does - that might be alt-reality.

Those who rioted Jan 6 had their heads in alt-reality, and over 1000 of them have been convicted or pled guilty.

The grievances themselves are mostly real. Believing in lies, stoked hate, disinformation is the door to alt-reality. Those two sentences may be combined.

Anyway, I might be out on a limb here because I assumed alt-reality had a definition. But I can't find it in this context.

Let's use the words reality - challenged instead. MTG and Matt Gaetz are two examples.

Yeah thats fine, but thats not as far as I can see, the overt intent of this song. Its quite possible someone will grab hold of it and use it inappropriately. Wheras the baez number was overtly and directly political.
How do you reconcile what you just wrote when you posted a song called evil man, thats directly about a political individual?

To be honest I simply just think you made a mistake and judged either the source ( Me) or the direct source, ( the look of the artist and the style of music) and jumped straight into trumpism.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I call your bias.

You should maybe listen too it properly- that you dont is on you.
These guys did.
Perhaps you looked at colour and the music style and followed your hatred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zf9odZDzRo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vFB9d4Npj8

A "neo-nazi anthem"??????
Bloody Hell, the left has lost it's mind.

Only a fringe lunatic (from either end) could even begin to view this song as anything but a classic poke at classism.

I remember a time when the left supported folks like Arlo and Woody Guthrie.

Now, outlets like Rolling Stone are nothing but shills, spending their ink pimping what they need you to hear, corporate crap,
like the #1 Hit W.A.P. (wet ass pussy) by Cardi B, & demonizing anyone with an "alternate" view.

Me, I guess I'm "livin' in a new world, with an old soul", exactly like the composer of
"Rich Men North of Richmond" , Oliver Anthony a self-professed Centrist.


.

Well, I concede.

The song is significant, and I like it.

It's a conservative's anthem.

And it's a bit scary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...l=WarriorPoetSociety

Magine Enigam thanks for that link.

Pretty darn good critique.

The suits in the beltway should take note.

Politics is downstream from culture, and the way this song is resonating, some of them may be out of a career next go round.


.

I think the song is a reflection of a phenomenon that pre-existed, and ready to burst out.

It's that, not the song itself, that's a bit scary.

There are several themes common to conservative's grievances nailed in that song.

IOW, it's loaded in many ways. That's what makes it popular.

Several aspects are scary - such as the stereotyping of welfare recipients.

I could go on and on, but rather not. I just want to point out some of the superficial scary themes.

One of the main themes of DJT was his supposed affront to the elite, the deep state, the "establishment". Only he could fix it. Excuse me please, but that's one of the main themes of fascism - both from the point of view of the leader and the led.

This song reinforces that theme.

I'm not saying Anthony is wrong. I'm just saying that we have been down that path, and it actually made problems worse.

What to do? Double down or re-think it?

I'm trying to be brief here, and respectful.

I hope you appreciate that.

I'll give an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ab_channel=MattWalsh

Why Oliver Anthony's Song Has Become The Anthem Of Normalcy

The narrator is very convincing, and even I agree with what he says - up to a point. It's a long video, and you don't need to see the whole thing to get the message.

Skip ahead to about 17:00 and listen to his conclusion. It's not right. He's connecting dots that don't exist, or at least don't connect with facts and reason and logic.

Sorry, but that's what happens. The song is emotional rousing.

I don't see the song as a device.

I view it as a measure of frustration.

As for Matt Walsh, honestly, not really a fan, but, I'll give it a listen, thanks.


.

I don't see the song as a device either. Not from Oliver Anthony. IMO, he's genuine - the real deal.

I don't know if he's frustrated or just an artist who instinctively tapped into frustration.

It's the fact that it went viral - people are getting a message from it, and the core of that message was already internalized.

The fact that it went viral basically reaffirms that the same sentiments that got Trump elected are still very strong.

The Walsh video, the conclusions he reaches, seem to be inevitable. I'm certainly not a fan either. I've not previously known of the guy. I just picked his video because he offered a reasonable explanation until the end.

He taps into a bunch of truths, then caps it off with conspiracy theory.

That's all.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Well, I concede.

The song is significant, and I like it.

It's a conservative's anthem.

And it's a bit scary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...l=WarriorPoetSociety

Its also not new. I think an author from another age Thoreau, wrote something along the lines of "The mass of men live in quiet desperation."
I cant sit and watch that link in its entirety at the moment but will do tonight as it looks fair and thoughtful.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I think the song is a reflection of a phenomenon that pre-existed, and ready to burst out.

It's that, not the song itself, that's a bit scary.

There are several themes common to conservative's grievances nailed in that song.

IOW, it's loaded in many ways. That's what makes it popular.

Several aspects are scary - such as the stereotyping of welfare recipients.

I could go on and on, but rather not. I just want to point out some of the superficial scary themes.

One of the main themes of DJT was his supposed affront to the elite, the deep state, the "establishment". Only he could fix it. Excuse me please, but that's one of the main themes of fascism - both from the point of view of the leader and the led.

This song reinforces that theme.

I'm not saying Anthony is wrong. I'm just saying that we have been down that path, and it actually made problems worse.

What to do? Double down or re-think it?

I'm trying to be brief here, and respectful.

I hope you appreciate that.

I'll give an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ab_channel=MattWalsh

Why Oliver Anthony's Song Has Become The Anthem Of Normalcy

The narrator is very convincing, and even I agree with what he says - up to a point. It's a long video, and you don't need to see the whole thing to get the message.

Skip ahead to about 17:00 and listen to his conclusion. It's not right. He's connecting dots that don't exist, or at least don't connect with facts and reason and logic.

Sorry, but that's what happens. The song is emotional rousing.

Heres the thing though- he can be quite as easily railing against trump and his broken promises. Because he sure made and broke them. If Trump had of actually drained the swamp then he'd be one of the best presidents to exist. But he didnt. He spoke the words and then was too lazy or whatever you will call it, to walk the walk. content to sit back and use the power he had for himself.
There is a leader in the world right now who is trying, and it will be interesting what becomes of his country if he succeeds and if he beats the Russians.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
I don't see the song as a device.

I view it as a measure of frustration.

As for Matt Walsh, honestly, not really a fan, but, I'll give it a listen, thanks.


.

Exactly.

On walsh. he has his place, hes intelligent and he asks sometimes uncomfortable questions. Like Peterson does. But both are flawed and what we as society need to be able to comprehend, is where the intelligence is overtaken by the flaws.

quote:

Exactly.

On walsh. he has his place, hes intelligent and he asks sometimes uncomfortable questions. Like Peterson does. But both are flawed and what we as society need to be able to comprehend, is where the intelligence is overtaken by the flaws.

Intelligence no longer exist in the West's FREE voters minds.!

It's a boogie man song.

“Men at some time are masters of their fates: The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings”. Nowadays, it should be added: "and we are emotional, ideological fools, easily duped, easily used".

Somewhere north of Richmond VA, it's all their fault.

Maybe he's Right - pun intended.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...fptaskbarhover&ei=16

https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...cid=socialshare&t=20

(One small excerpt - there's much mpre)

And now the Court is gutting the EPA—the agency Justice Gorsuch's mother infamously ran into the ground before resigning in disgrace during the Reagan administration—using Gorsuch's own BS "textualist" rationale to go after the agency today.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...4b06e4b0f800ce213c32

The Supreme Court’s Conservatives May Be Set To Kneecap Federal Regulations
The increasing invocation of the "major questions doctrine" could imperil a wide swath of federal government regulatory actions.

https://slate.com/technology/2...smantle-the-epa.html

Remember When Neil Gorsuch’s Mother Tried to Dismantle the EPA?
It happened under Reagan.
BY LISA HYMAS
JAN 31, 2017

"major questions doctrine"

https://www.natlawreview.com/a...r-questions-doctrine

Major Questions About the Major Questions Doctrine
Thursday, July 13, 2023

https://www.vox.com/scotus/237...oans-gorsuch-barrett

How the Supreme Court put itself in charge of the executive branch
The major questions doctrine, explained.

By Ian Millhiser Jul 17, 2023, 6:30am EDT

(excerpt)

This major questions doctrine, at least as it is understood by the Court’s current majority, emerged almost from thin air in the past several years. And it has been wielded almost exclusively by Republican-appointed justices to invalidate policies created by a Democratic administration. This doctrine is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution. Nor is it mentioned in any federal statute. It appears to have been completely made up by justices who want to wield outsize control over federal policy.

And the implications of this doctrine are breathtaking. In practice, the major questions doctrine makes the Supreme Court the final word on any policy question that Congress has delegated to an executive branch agency — effectively giving the unelected justices the power to override both elected branches of the federal government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...nts_in_mouseholes%22

Major questions doctrine

The major questions doctrine is a principle of statutory interpretation in United States administrative law which states that courts will presume that Congress does not delegate to executive agencies issues of major political or economic significance.

In the years since the Supreme Court adopted the broader version of the major questions doctrine, legal scholars have criticized the doctrine along various lines.[3] These include arguments that the major questions doctrine is a symptom of "judicial self-aggrandizement," that it is inconsistent with both textualism and originalism, and that it is at odds with normal tools of statutory interpretation.[4][5][6] In an article for the Harvard Law Review summarizing this transformation in the major questions case law, Professor Mila Sohoni wrote that the "first crucial thing to understand about the major questions [doctrine] is what it did to administrative law."[7] She continued, "[w]hile ostensibly applying existing major questions case law, the [Supreme Court] in actuality altered the doctrine of judicial review of agency action in its method and content, in ways that will have momentous consequences."

No, you are completely wrong in the bow you try to draw, and its ironic that you do so and at the same time try to blame conservatism.Especially while there is a democrat government.

Who is moved by your boogie man song?

And in what way are they moved?

And why does it resonate with them?

What do they read between the lines?

Who do they blame?

It's always "them", never "us".

The parallels I "draw" are always already present. Those "dots" are already connected.

Rightists can't see it.

The reaction to the song is evidence.

The song going viral is not a stand-alone phenomenon. It's evidence of a bigger thing.

That "thing" is related to:

Who put Trump in the WH? Who thought and thinks Trump can "fix" it all, and perhaps is a tool of God?

Who condoned denying Obama a SCOTUS appointment.

Who condones the 20,000 shock troops loyalists and putting Trump back in the WH to implement the plan.

Who cheered when Trump loaded SCOTUS with three conservative extremists?

Who wants to gut the EPA, FDA, and other essential agencies?

Who would welcome the pardon of over 1000 convicted of crimes related to Jan 6?

And so forth.

You know what. I posted up two reaction videos too the song. Do yourself a favour and some research and grab a coffee or beer and spend half an hour tonight clicking through and watching the reaction videos and note where they are coming from and the genuine-ness of them. Read the commentaries and watch peoples faces as the words hit them.

Heres 3 for you. I did this last night because I had a feeling you would come back and double down, and wanted to check my assumptions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflNGWchZ3o

Listen too this guy right at the end and You will realise the lie you are speaking, where he recognises that you must spend at least the same time working for others, working on or for yourself. Actually listen!

The last two women in these videos. Very different backgrounds and yet watch both as the song hits them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6TVPC-EPgg&t=310s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vjGM9FECY&t=325s

The only person in denial is yourself and your need to totally absolutely lay all blame on the conservative voter.

I did review and listen to several commentary videos, and they swayed me.

Then I listened to the one by Walsh. All was good until the end and listening to his conclusions said all I needed to know. It was like a dam broke, and flooded me.

I will review the links you provided and get back with you.

================================================

I quickly reviewed the three youtube video links you posted.

I stand by my claims.

The song is a boogie man song.

It's an emotional rouser.

So, maybe it's not just conservatives, but I think it's mostly conservatives.

The only substance it has are the sentiments already out there. It's a consolidation with lots of room between the lines.

In my view it carries all the baggage of conservativism that I listed above, and more - if not the song, then the reaction to it, which is emotional, not rational.

What solution does it offer or suggest?

huh?

So you found the flaw in walsh I talked about, and your bias decided to lay that on every person who connects with the song and interpret their connection in the same way.

quote:

your bias

Rational analysis, or critical thinking may be construed by others to be bias. I'm open to being convinced either way.

For now, I think what I'm doing is the former.

Maybe these two dots don't connect?

1. The song is about frustration, anger, emotion, with a premise basis of much of the conservative grievances, including blaming the elite or establishment, with a dose of Christianity. It's a boogie and a victim song.

2. Those same factors are directly related to the rise, and hopefully fall, of Trumpism.

I'm pretty sure we all know there is a direct connection of 1. and 2.

If it is merely an expression, artfully done, that's fine. But if it's affirmation which serves for the continuation of some form of Trumpism, that's not OK.

So, you tell me, which is it - the song went viral due to it's artistic value - merely expression?

Or

because people are desperate, especially now with recent events, for affirmations of their feelings?

Will it change anything?

Well You know you can work that out. I tire of showing you. You will see what you see. You know you suffer from the same flaw as Walsh. Ive pointed that out many times.

I have worked it out.

You just won't acknowledge it.

There is a big difference in seeing and saying what something is vs a conspiracy theory.

Walsh reached a conclusion that took a conspiracy theory to complete the take-away.

That's a pretty common thing, especially among conservatives. They assemble some facts then draw the conclusion they already believe with a leap into theory.

Here, with this song, some may say that's what I'm doing.

In summary, I've stated my case:

The song rouses the grievances of the Right - mostly.

Those SAME grievances got us Trump.

It's not a coincidence.

That's not all. It's gotten worse - not better, despite or because of Trump.

Maybe the song is a good thing because maybe it makes people think. But the song stops way short of solutions, and dwells on feelings and problems. It's still stuck in no way out or up.

There are articles and media - documentaries, that delve into solutions:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...694556a985e41c&ei=72

Abcarian: Lies, damn lies and social media — there's a reason this country is so deeply polarized.
Opinion by Robin Abcarian
•
13h

(excerpt)

As trustworthy a figure as Uncle Walter was, he represents a world that is long gone. That was a world where Americans got their news from the three major television networks, AM radio and their local newspapers. There was no cable news, no Google, no Facebook, no TikTok, no Twitter/X. No podcasts. There was no online Russian interference in our presidential elections, no deep fakes, no AI.

Yet even before all those digital distractions and deceptions, I daresay we have always been a nation divided. Division, in some ways, is the essence of democracy.

But what has become so distressing in our current moment is the cynical and widespread manipulation of those divisions with the use of outright lies. Truth itself, something we used to be able to agree on, has been undermined.

https://www.trustworthydoc.com/

Trustworthy documentary trailer