https://www.msn.com/en-us/heal...fa9533d6be0514&ei=23

COVID plan, and never paid a professional price

"In 2019 you would have been considered a quack if you suggested that the best way to get rid of a virus is to spread the virus. But that became mainstream and influenced politicians at the highest levels."

"For a taste of Tucker's worldview, consider a 2016 article entitled "Let the kids work." There he ridiculed the Washington Post for publishing a photo gallery of child laborers from 100 years ago, including miners and sweatshop workers as young as 10.

Tucker's response was that those children were "working in the adult world, surrounded by cool bustling things and new technology. They are on the streets, in the factories, in the mines, with adults and with peers, learning and doing. They are being valued for what they do, which is to say being valued as people.... Whatever else you want to say about this, it’s an exciting life."
---------------

And there are graveyards in coal country full of child laborers who had been "living that exciting life".

Tried to read it.

The fellow who wrote it (it is an opinion piece) does not know “come here” from “sick’em” about what he is writing about.

Leave to ME to sift out the most ignorant articles and bring them to the board…the guy is like a bullshit magnet.

Had you not attached my name to it I would not have wasted the time opining. Steered completely from your other inventory of baloney.

Are you looking for the Bullshit Dredger of the year Award?

BTW…the pandemic has been over for a little while now and the reason it ended was due to Herd Immunity being achieved.

quote:

Berd Immunity being achieved.

I'm sure you meant "Herd Immunity"

But that just reinforces my point.

You think herd immunity was and is ---

As far as I know, the "herd" isn't immune, and never will be.

It looks to me today like closing schools was a huge mistake. All my house has had corona, the youngest suffered the least and I'm talking mild cold. Education on the other hand was crippled. Students were set back years at a minimum with months of failed distance education.

Masking apparently wasn't effective. I guess the grubby paper towel with built in elastic ear bands I kept in my back pocket wasn't a whole lot of good and I did put it up over my nose everywhere I was supposed to.

The vaccine certainly didn't work the way it was advertised and it didn't make any difference in Dillingam or under my roof. We all got it, the elders got it bad, kids not really.

Are we ever going to recover from the economic shut downs and bailouts/ hand outs? I don't think so. This national handout is snowballing and I'm certain "Reparations" is an offshoot of Corona Christmas giving.

America needed some intelligent, capable leadership and instead we got Trump/ Biden. We got injecting chlorox and federal checks for having kids.

I think our kids lives, their entire lives have been altered for the worse by the idiotic corona response.

The Chinks did it on purpose!

They single handed, with one stroke, brought the whole world on its knees!

Right from day one, I said this was so over blown!

I would never have had the bloody vaccine if it was not necessary for me to travel!

I never liked the bloody commie Chinks!

I think the response was well intentioned, I think the vitriol was malicious, destructive.
Here in the pf, participants labeled others that didn't hysterically sprint to masks, shuttering, isolation and the vaccine as murderers, treasonous, genocidal.

Today we move on like nothing happened. Exponentially deeper in debt, culturally victimized, ( voluntarily,) and as a republic, entirely un united.

It's disgusting.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Berd Immunity being achieved.

I'm sure you meant "Herd Immunity"

But that just reinforces my point.

You think herd immunity was and is ---

As far as I know, the "herd" isn't immune, and never will be.

And that my friend shows how little you understand the subject and what “Herd Immunity” actually is.

The analogy of talking to a fence post comes to mind.

quote:

I think our kids lives, their entire lives have been altered for the worse by the idiotic corona response.

The "idiotic corona response" went both ways.

Maybe, in hindsight, I was one of "them" who bought into the "scientists" who made all the restrictive recommendations.

I just figured their intentions were most likely good, and the intentions of the deniers were bad.

I certainly could have been wrong in that regard. But, given similar scenarios in the future, I would make the same default.

Climate science is another example, environmental protection, etc., and especially the next pandemic.

There are compulsive deniers of all sorts, based on beliefs and ideology - not that I'm the flip side.

But, I will default to the flipside view of what I think is denialism every time.

quote:

And that my friend shows how little you understand the subject and what “Herd Immunity” actually is.

As I explained before, I consider it a Vet thing; a wildlife biologist's thing; something they teach to the over-educated. Might as well be saying it's cull the herd in my view.

Maybe it doesn't matter - just semantics. The herd will be culled either way, no matter how we label it. Too many people in old-folks homes anyway, past life expectancy and productivity.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

And that my friend shows how little you understand the subject and what “Herd Immunity” actually is.

As I explained before, I consider it a Vet thing; a wildlife biologist's thing; something they teach to the over-educated. Might as well be saying it's cull the herd in my view.

Maybe it doesn't matter - just semantics. The herd will be culled either way, no matter how we label it. Too many people in old-folks homes anyway, past life expectancy and productivity.

Again…a demonstration of lack of understanding. Has ‘ZERO’ to do will culling anything.

It is ALL about the immune response formed by a percentage of a population to a pathogen.

Big sigh!

Funny how Dr. Butler and myself can communicate effectively on the subject and rarely have major disagreements.

quote:

It is ALL about the immune response formed by a percentage of a population to a pathogen.

And all this time, I thought that's what vaccines were for.

Back to the premise of the OP:

"In 2019 you would have been considered a quack if you suggested that the best way to get rid of a virus is to spread the virus. But that became mainstream and influenced politicians at the highest levels."

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

It is ALL about the immune response formed by a percentage of a population to a pathogen.

And all this time, I thought that's what vaccines were for.

Back to the premise of the OP:

"In 2019 you would have been considered a quack if you suggested that the best way to get rid of a virus is to spread the virus. But that became mainstream and influenced politicians at the highest levels."

Another display of pure ignorance.

Yes, 100% vaccines are a method/tool of augmenting, boosting, and shortening the time interval to herd immunity.

However, (a few points):
1) People and animals were surviving pathogens for eons prior to the first vaccine. And populations routinely form herd immunity without them.

2) Due to host/antigen interaction and a variety of other factors above your (ME’s) paygrade…they rarely provide complete immunity and better immunity comes after a successful (for the host) host/pathogen interaction. Certainly vaccines give the advantage to the host.

3) Vaccines are “almost” NEVER the force that which keeps herd immunity strong — that force is natural exposure. Guaranteed ‘you’ have been exposed infected with Sars CoV-2 by now and your immune system has analyzed it, fought it off, and stored information (more than the vaccine provided) for future interactions (amnestic response) which WILL occur.

4) I am very pro-vaccine. We use them daily in practice. I was among the the first to receive a COVID vaccination.

quote:

Certainly vaccines give the advantage to the host.

I always figure that it's best to have whatever advantage when dealing with a pathogen, whether biological or political.

guess per this "AUTHOR"

i was one of those "QUACKS"

at the time of "sequestration" (as we did not truly quarantine)
i stated -
"we have just lengthened the pandemic by at least a year"

that statement was based on knowledge of historical viral spread patterns as well as that of herd immunity and vaccine effects.

as it turned out,
i had underestimated that time line,
the "sequestration effect" on the pandemic prolonged it for greater than one year

(not to mention the effects upon our economy and freedoms)

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Certainly vaccines give the advantage to the host.

I always figure that it's best to have whatever advantage when dealing with a pathogen, whether biological or political.

Something we can agree on…in theory anyway.

quote:

Something we can agree on…in theory anyway.

Moral high ground is where the theory breaks down, re politics. Shit always flows downhill and floods the swamp.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

I think our kids lives, their entire lives have been altered for the worse by the idiotic corona response.

The "idiotic corona response" went both ways.

Maybe, in hindsight, I was one of "them" who bought into the "scientists" who made all the restrictive recommendations.

I just figured their intentions were most likely good, and the intentions of the deniers were bad.

I certainly could have been wrong in that regard. But, given similar scenarios in the future, I would make the same default.

Climate science is another example, environmental protection, etc., and especially the next pandemic.

There are compulsive deniers of all sorts, based on beliefs and ideology - not that I'm the flip side.

But, I will default to the flipside view of what I think is denialism every time.

I believe their intentions were entirely good. Maybe there was some random nefarious figure hoping for something, but it doesn't look to me like there's any foreign entity with any more or less authority today than there was before corona.

It's the response of the uneducated here and nationally that was disappointing. You know, Aspen Ann was insulted all kinds of ways because she didn't want the shot. The ignorant here labeled her a murderer and treasonous. Isn't it interesting that in the end it appears she made the right decision for herself?

Rachel Maddow refered to maskless Americans as, "the enemy". How do you like that for fascist propaganda?

We sure demonstrated the need for good old fashioned FDR/ JFK/ Lincoln/ George Washington leadership and we got saddled with Biden/ Trump.

perhaps you aren't old enough to remember chicken pox and measles parties

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

I believe their intentions were entirely good. Maybe there was some random nefarious figure hoping for something, but it doesn't look to me like there's any foreign entity with any more or less authority today than there was before corona.

It's the response of the uneducated here and nationally that was disappointing. You know, Aspen Ann was insulted all kinds of ways because she didn't want the shot. The ignorant here labeled her a murderer and treasonous. Isn't it interesting that in the end it appears she made the right decision for herself?

Rachel Maddow refered to maskless Americans as, "the enemy". How do you like that for fascist propaganda?

We sure demonstrated the need for good old fashioned FDR/ JFK/ Lincoln/ George Washington leadership and we got saddled with Biden/ Trump.

I never watch or read Maddow, so I didn't know that she did that. If what you say is true, then I oppose it too.

I don't know anything about Aspen Ann, nor the insults and accusations.

I'm not so sure that the leadership is the problem, or foreign entities. Our reactions/responses were all our own. People act like (or think) that they think on their own. I doubt it.

I think it was a test run for the real thing. Now we know what to expect next time. Same old shit, only worse and longer.

IMO, it's kinda like the Durham Report and other stuff, and after the fact spin, claims of vindication, or I was right all along stuff.

IMO, people like Rand Paul, Gym Jordon, DJT can NEVER be vindicated.

Part of the problem is trust. Who ya gonna trust - ghost busters? The Right didn't trust Fauci, maybe for reasonable reasons, maybe not. The same people don't trust science in general, and mostly are alt-right. (alt-reality)

Anyway, there is a lot of spew out there. For example:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/heal...068ec0681c4b46&ei=34

WHO chief warns of future pathogens with 'even deadlier potential' than COVID-19
Story by Julia Musto • 5h ago

This article and video is convincing. It's designed to be. But -----

The video interview starts by saying this guy had this view from the beginning, and now he's vindicated. He says we need an HONEST review. Can you imagine Fox News using the word "honest"? Let's talk some more about "trust" in a proven lying/spinning news source.

IMO, the seeds of distrust are nurtured in sources like Fox. It makes my head spin for them to be talking about honesty and trust, like it is of value to them.

Magine,

As I said at the beginning of Covid, there are many pathogens much worse than sars cov 2. If and when a hemorrhagic fever becomes airborne just dig you a pit and get in

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

I think our kids lives, their entire lives have been altered for the worse by the idiotic corona response.

The "idiotic corona response" went both ways.

Maybe, in hindsight, I was one of "them" who bought into the "scientists" who made all the restrictive recommendations.

I just figured their intentions were most likely good, and the intentions of the deniers were bad.

I certainly could have been wrong in that regard. But, given similar scenarios in the future, I would make the same default.

Climate science is another example, environmental protection, etc., and especially the next pandemic.

There are compulsive deniers of all sorts, based on beliefs and ideology - not that I'm the flip side.

But, I will default to the flipside view of what I think is denialism every time.

I believe their intentions were entirely good. Maybe there was some random nefarious figure hoping for something, but it doesn't look to me like there's any foreign entity with any more or less authority today than there was before corona.

It's the response of the uneducated here and nationally that was disappointing. You know, Aspen Ann was insulted all kinds of ways because she didn't want the shot. The ignorant here labeled her a murderer and treasonous. Isn't it interesting that in the end it appears she made the right decision for herself?

Rachel Maddow refered to maskless Americans as, "the enemy". How do you like that for fascist propaganda?

We sure demonstrated the need for good old fashioned FDR/ JFK/ Lincoln/ George Washington leadership and we got saddled with Biden/ Trump.

There is insulting going on daily on PF so just carry on
And of course we will never know if long dead politicians would act differently
Power is an ugly thing and it affects all of us

So - herd immunity???

China hit by new Covid-19 wave, with tens of millions of cases expected
2h ago

Beijing, China - A new wave of Covid-19 is sweeping China as millions of new cases are being reported every day.

Leading Chinese epidemiologist Zhong Nanshan is expecting around 65 million new cases of infection per week at the end of June, when he expects the wave to peak, according to state media. Zhong is currently assuming around 40 million cases per week.

quote:

Originally posted by Kanec:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

I think our kids lives, their entire lives have been altered for the worse by the idiotic corona response.

The "idiotic corona response" went both ways.

Maybe, in hindsight, I was one of "them" who bought into the "scientists" who made all the restrictive recommendations.

I just figured their intentions were most likely good, and the intentions of the deniers were bad.

I certainly could have been wrong in that regard. But, given similar scenarios in the future, I would make the same default.

Climate science is another example, environmental protection, etc., and especially the next pandemic.

There are compulsive deniers of all sorts, based on beliefs and ideology - not that I'm the flip side.

But, I will default to the flipside view of what I think is denialism every time.

I believe their intentions were entirely good. Maybe there was some random nefarious figure hoping for something, but it doesn't look to me like there's any foreign entity with any more or less authority today than there was before corona.

It's the response of the uneducated here and nationally that was disappointing. You know, Aspen Ann was insulted all kinds of ways because she didn't want the shot. The ignorant here labeled her a murderer and treasonous. Isn't it interesting that in the end it appears she made the right decision for herself?

Rachel Maddow refered to maskless Americans as, "the enemy". How do you like that for fascist propaganda?

We sure demonstrated the need for good old fashioned FDR/ JFK/ Lincoln/ George Washington leadership and we got saddled with Biden/ Trump.

There is insulting going on daily on PF so just carry on
And of course we will never know if long dead politicians would act differently
Power is an ugly thing and it affects all of us

Political Opponents burned effigies of President Washington. President Jackson shot and canned political rivals.

The election between Adams and Jackson was horrible for its lack of civility.

President T. Roosevelt was made out to be a mad man.

President John Adams had political opponents jailed under the Alien and Seduction Act for merely calling him a “fat tyrant.”

exactly what act of Alien Seduction
would that be

inquiring minds want to know

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Berd Immunity being achieved.

I'm sure you meant "Herd Immunity"

But that just reinforces my point.

You think herd immunity was and is ---

As far as I know, the "herd" isn't immune, and never will be.

You mean like we wont achieve herd immunity via the vaccine either?
Dont get me wrong I have had 3 shots, but its becoming clear from those around me whoare also vaccinated and have had it, and those who've not been vaccinated and have had it, that it does not offer much.

I think it's sortof like the flu.

Yes, I get the annual flu shot, even though they say it doesn't cover all variants.

The idea as I understand it is to reduce the effects should I catch it.

So far I haven't had the flu in over twenty years.

quote:

perhaps you aren't old enough to remember chicken pox and measles parties

I do, I do.