The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum George Floyd, Civil Rights, and God…it’s all here! Great interview by Tucker Carlson!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Ahh…your lack of reading comprehension skills have failed you again…let me try to dumb it down for you. My question (typing slowly) did not pertain the physical altercation that put Floyd on the ground. You advocate shooting rioters…I am fine with that. But with that being our mindset… …Floyd high on illicit narcotics is quietly arrested for passing counterfeit money. He is then helped into a squad car fairly nonchalantly (which he was). He then belligerently comes out and heads towards the officers (he did). Why wouldn’t have Chauvin been justified in shooting him at that stage just like any other rioter? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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What I didn’t get was why they let him out of the squad in the first place… | |||
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Chauvin did not shoot him, the threat passed and he squeezed the life out of another human being for no good reason. Murder is a very just verdict. Let him rot.... | |||
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Yes…we all know he didn’t shoot him.  So for the record we’ll just say you avoided answering my question because you know you can’t justify the difference.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Exactly how does an unarmed, cuffed man pose a threat to the officer's life that he would be justified in using deadly force? He was pissed that the guy did not respect his "authority" and kneeled on him to teach him a lesson. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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It is a moot point you mental midget. The threat passed, he did not shoot, then he slowly squeezed the life out of a man, for ten minutes. Just because Floyd got out of the car does not mean he deserved to shot. The rioters that needed to be shot were actively engaged in violence, not just refusing a simple command. There is a difference even you should be able to grasp. And you graduated college and became a Doctor? I'm losing faith in educational just by engaging you.  | |||
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It's my understanding that Floyd was handcuffed before he was kneeded. There is no logical reason, per law enforcement, to intentionally kill him. Being a low-life drugee is not an excuse. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Lane, was Floyd “subdued” when he was non-responsive 3 minutes BEFORE Chauvin stopped kneeling on his neck? Mike | |||
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Don’t confuse people with facts…  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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1) If he was following police training he would not have been convicted of murder. 2) the MD who undertook the autopsy stands by the conclusion of homicide. 3) if it was “ a lie” as per the thread title, the cops lawyers would now be getting him out. Pretty conclusive. | |||
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So let me get one straight. Rioting by going into the street breaking things and throwing things at cops is bad enough to warrant deadly force (your words and I am in agreement). But committing a felony, resisting arrest, belligerently exiting a patrol car with some intent to cause harm (otherwise he would have safely stayed in the car) is not!? Your logic (using the term loosely) is insane. The is no education to fix that^^^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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You should not get shot for breaking things(your words), you should get shot for arson, shooting at others, violently beating others etc. Floyd was not a threat, therefore he should not have had the life slowly squeezed out of him. So simple, even you should be able to grasp the concept. | |||
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Lost cause with people who defend moron, derelict, drugie Simple fact…when you start fighting police, you get what you got coming and death is unfortunately one of them What some of you expect from cops? Pleading with criminals…Hey take it easy man? Some of you are no different than people who excuse Hamas violence against civilians in latest case Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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\ In our society we do not murder people who are cuffed and no longer a threat, only heathens do that. | |||
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He should have stayed safely in the car where they initially put him. And for the record, the gist of the OP: The objective findings of the autopsy does not support your claim of “having the life squeezed out of him.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I have changed my mind about it being a shame that Chauvin was not shot. I think it might be better that he serve out his time being Bubbas girlfriend, he deserves every inch of anything he receives behind bars. | |||
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Wow!  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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What was the cause of death in your "expert" medical opinion? Was he struck by lightning? -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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The objective data doesn’t support mechanical asphyxiation. The objective data does show degenerative cardiac disease and blood concentrations of cardio-toxic and respiratory depressive drugs. The objective data also shows evidence of an exertional altercation. My educated guess is that he incurred a fatal dysthymia from the whole altercation. The objective data supports that conclusion but there is no way to confirm post-mortem. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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That's all very interesting but the question is really whether or not the cop compromising his respiratory system for ten minutes was a proximate cause of his death. You seem to be making the argument that Floyd would have dropped dead at the same time, place and location without the physical assault on him by the police? Is that really your position? -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The man was handcuffed, face down on the ground with a cop sitting on his neck for ten minutes. Here's what the ME said at trial. "Dr. Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner, said Floyd died after police “subdual, restraint and neck compression” caused his heart and lungs to stop. He said heart disease and drug use were factors but not the “top line” causes. He said Floyd had an enlarged heart that needed more oxygen than normal, as well as narrowed arteries." Sorry, but that is a medical-legal determination of cause of death. You don't know what you're talking about. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County medical examiner, testified Friday in a Minneapolis courtroom as prosecutors try to prove former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was responsible for George Floyd's death in police custody last May. Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell questioned Baker about the autopsy report he had completed in Floyd's death, which cites "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." Baker concluded that Floyd's death was a homicide — which as a forensic pathologist he explained means that someone else was involved in the death, not necessarily that it was criminal. Blackwell asked how it was the subdual, restraint and neck compression caused Floyd's death. Baker explained that Floyd had severe underlying heart disease. Floyd also had hypertensive heart disease, Baker said, "which means that his heart weighed more than it should." "So he has a heart that already needs more oxygen than a normal heart, by virtue of its size. And it's limited in its ability to step up to provide more oxygen when there's demand, because of the narrowing of his coronary arteries," Baker said. Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County medical examiner, testifies Friday on the cause and manner of George Floyd's death. "Now in the context of an altercation with other people that involves things like physical restraint, that involves things like being held to the ground, that involves things like the pain you would incur from having your cheek up against the asphalt, an abrasion on your shoulder – those events are going to cause stress hormones to pour out into your body, specifically things like adrenaline," Baker continued. "And what that adrenaline is going to do is it's going to ask your heart to beat faster. It's going to ask your body for more oxygen so that you can get through that altercation." "In my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint and the neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take, by virtue of those heart conditions," Baker concluded. There were fentanyl and methamphetamine in Floyd's toxicology report, Blackwell noted, and inquired why Baker had not listed those as the "top line" causes of death in his report. "The top line of the cause of death is really what you think is the most important thing that you think precipitated the death. Other things that you think played a role in the death but were not direct causes" appear in the "other significant conditions" part of the death certificate, Baker explained. "Mr. Floyd's use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint, his heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint," Baker said. They were items that may have contributed to his death but were not the direct cause, he said. During cross-examination, defense attorney Eric Nelson asked Baker whether Floyd's heart disease, history of hypertension and the drugs in his system played a role in his death. "In my opinion, yes," Baker replied. Nelson asked Baker about the effects of methamphetamine in the circumstances of this case: A person with an enlarged heart and a narrowing of the arteries, how does the introduction of methamphetamine affect that person? "It increases the heart rate, it increases the work of the heart. It's not something that I as a forensic pathologist would want to see in the blood of someone that has heart disease," Baker replied. Blackwell, for the prosecution, asked Baker what he believes were the cause and manner of death, and Baker said that his opinion has not changed from his earlier determinations. Before the Hennepin County medical examiner, the court heard from forensic pathologist Dr. Lindsey Thomas. She appeared as an expert for the prosecution, but she said she was not being paid to testify. "I've never had a case like this," she said, where a person's death is so thoroughly documented – mainly through videos from the scene. When asked if she formed an opinion on "the mechanism" of Floyd's death, Thomas said she has. "In this case, I believe the primary mechanism of death is asphyxia or low oxygen," she told the jury. In Floyd's case, "I believe the primary mechanism of death is asphyxia or low oxygen," Dr. Lindsey Thomas, a forensic pathologist, told jurors Friday. The Hennepin County medical examiner's office ruled last summer that Floyd's death was a homicide, saying his heart and lungs stopped functioning "while being restrained" by police. But it also noted "other significant conditions," including fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as well as heart disease. Chauvin's attorney, Nelson, has said Floyd's heart condition was also to blame for his death. Nelson has also said Floyd may have been overdosing on drugs when he died, airing the theory that Floyd put drugs in his mouth when police approached him. Under questioning from Nelson, Thomas said she would consider Floyd's heart to be "slightly enlarged," but she added that by some measures, his heart would not be considered to be enlarged. High blood pressure is the primary cause of an enlarged heart, Thomas said. She also confirmed that Floyd had a history of high blood pressure. Sponsor Message On Thursday, pulmonary specialist Dr. Martin Tobin told the jury that Floyd died from a lack of oxygen that caused brain damage after the first five minutes of the police officers' restraint of him. Tobin also said that fentanyl did not play a role, citing Floyd's normal breathing rate. It would have been much slower, he said, if Floyd was under the effects of fentanyl. Thomas worked for years in the Hennepin County medical examiner's office, and also worked for or led similar agencies in Minnesota. She's now semiretired, she said, but works part time in medical examiner's offices in Reno, Nev., and Salt Lake City. She is licensed in several states and has performed thousands of autopsies. She and Baker are friends and former colleagues, she said. Chauvin is charged with three criminal counts: second-degree murder — unintentional — while committing a felony; third-degree murder — perpetrating eminently dangerous act and evincing depraved mind; and second-degree manslaughter — culpable negligence creating unreasonable risk. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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And again, the one who caused all of this was Floyd Death could have been preventable if he didn’t resist Nobody knew about his preexisting conditions or how drugged up he was He simply put himself in very dangerous situation and unfortunately died in the process Cop were put in unfortunate position as well and paid the price in public opinion/lynching so ultimately they are victims as well and this thanks to stupid actions of stupid lifelong criminal Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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People put themselves in stupid positions all the time. Shit, almost everybody the police encounter has put themselves in a stupid position. That doesn't mean the police can kill them. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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I agree people do and also die in process Stupidity has no boundaries and God created stupidity to once in awhile clean up the gene pool Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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There was no objective anatomical pathology in the neck suggesting the restraint caused mechanical asphyxiation…which makes that call a subjective opinion. My problem is that pathology CAN almost always be found if a restraint IS causing airway obstruction. There was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin committed criminal homicide. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The jury and the trial court disagreed with you. As did the intermediate appellate court in Minnesota...and, the Minnesota Supreme Court. But...you know better than all of them. Well, you and Tucker Carlson. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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My goodness. We need better civics class. 1) A jury can make any reasonable inference from the evidence presented. 2) A jury May convict on circumstantial evidence including all reasonable inferences thereof. 3 Beyond Reasonable Doubt does not mean all doubt or all certainty. In fact, if you believe that you are disqualified from serving on a jury. 4) An appellate court will not disturb the factual findings of the jury. An Appellate Court can only determine whether there are any errors in law and whether there is sufficient evidence to permit a reasonable jury to find guilt. Dr. Easter’s “empirical position@ is not required. Also, a jury can chose to believe or not believe all or any part of a particular witness’ testimony. Yes, the jury can pick and chose what they want from any witness. Dr. Easter also has no idea the scope of evidence or the law applies to this trial. I have not read the State appellate decisions, nor watched the evidence admitted at trial. This, I do not know either. I do know the following: 1) Chevron was innocent in Dr. Easter’s eyes of a homicide the minute he heard about it; 2) Dr. Easter does not think Floyd’s life counts the same has his life; and 3) Dr. Easter’s position that a homicide guilty finding is not permissible is incorrect. Just because an Appellate Court or Dr. Easter would have reached a different conclusion is not grounds to overturn a conviction. Guilt or Innocence is not the issue when a conviction is obtained under appropriate due process according to Justice Scilla. In that case, Justice Scilla let a man most believe was innocent be executed. | |||
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Like I said: 1) Juries get it wrong. 2) I don’t put my faith in the legal system. 3) and George Floyd was in charge of his own destiny. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Nobody is always right Even the best get things wrong at times SCOTUS included, after all we are all just people Criminals get it wrong more than others so it seems Nothing like standing over your own kill | |||
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Juries rarely get it wrong. I know you're a cow doctor and are consequently an expert on juries but you're wrong on this one all your cow experience to the contrary. You're apparently an expert on appellate issues too and are smarter and know more about evidence and appellate law than those appellate courts in Minnesota. I mean all those judges just went to college and law school and practiced law for decades. Wouldn't expect them to be able to measure up to you on legal issues. How do you have time to be so smart on so many issues between operating on cows? You put your faith in the legal system just so long as the legal system lines up with your politics. Otherwise, not so much. Floyd was in charge of his destiny until a cop was leaning on his neck for 10 minutes asphyxiating him while he stated repeatedly "I can't breathe". Then, not so much. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Well Mitchell, as far as juries go, it seems I constantly hear about someone incorrectly convicted, served years in prison and then found to be innocent | |||
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You think that might have something to do with the fact that out of the thousands and thousands of jury trials each year, when the odd trial is incorrectly decided that it becomes a significant media focus? Nah, must be that most jury trials are decided incorrectly and the media just occasionally focuses on one. I wonder how many of the “jury system sucks” crowd here would actually opt for a bench trial if they were on trial. Mike | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Somebody's throwing a temper tantrum. But, it ain't me. Moooooo. I wouldn't bring your cow credentials into it if you didn't act like you were a neuro-surgeon because of them. Eat shit. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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When you can’t win an argument on merit and your low-bred…you respond like Mike. Do you actually ever win a case? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I'm not like you. Not gonna come on here and brag about how smart I am or how many cases I have won or lost. I've won some and lost some and am not an expert on everything. I'll leave that to you. I will say that I don't know shit about doctoring cows. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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I’m inclined to think it wasn’t asphyxiation but rather prolonged carotid artery occlusion which invariably leads to loss of consciousness. Death follows if the occlusion continues. He was choked out, then died when blood flow to the brain was blocked for another 2-3 minutes. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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I did have a case once many years ago where I represented the King Ranch against a local Dallas rancher who starved a bunch of their cows to death or close to it. Interesting. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum George Floyd, Civil Rights, and God…it’s all here! Great interview by Tucker Carlson!
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