It is unnatural. It is unneeded knowledge for <16.

By your inference above…the school should put Hustler on the periodical shelf. Not doing so is banning.

Lane, you say that it’s unnatural.

You’re 100% wrong. Gays have always been in our culture, it’s just that most in our American history were forced to hide it for fear of the consequences of coming out.

Gays dont choose to be gay; they were born that way. You, being a man of medicine and science, should know that different mothers give different doses of hormones to the embryo/fetus.

I’ve talked to a number of gay men about their gayness (not too many bull dykes. We don’t seem to get along), and uniformly they all say that they knew at an early age that they were attracted to the same sex.

I think that a lot of this fear of exposing the realty of life is that parents fear that if exposed to the truth, their kids will become queers. It ain’t going to happen. It doesn’t work that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Lane, you say that it’s unnatural.

You’re 100% wrong. Gays have always been in our culture, it’s just that most in our American history were forced to hide it for fear of the consequences of coming out.

Gays dont choose to be gay; they were born that way. You, being a man of medicine and science, should know that different mothers give different doses of hormones to the embryo/fetus.

I’ve talked to a number of gay men about their gayness (not too many bull dykes. We don’t seem to get along), and uniformly they all say that they knew at an early age that they were attracted to the same sex.

I think that a lot of this fear of exposing the realty of life is that parents fear that if exposed to the truth, their kids will become queers. It ain’t going to happen. It doesn’t work that way.

I think you're close.....its not that I think exposure is gonna make em gay.....But making it seem normal, its not, and turning it into a fashion statement, making it normal so to speak.....especially on young minds.....I don't consider it healthy.

Look at just tv commercials cat, tv shows, movies? Every other one has a same sex couples. That does not reflect the mainstream, they are what 7% of our population? What is the reason for their over representation in the mainstream? Why do we need to put so much effort into teaching our kids about 7% of our population?

I don't want any harm, none. But it is not a normal lifestyle. They, the majority even, may be born that way, God bless em. But no matter what its not the norm.

People are born with all kinds of mental issues from down syndrome to pure psychosis...... I know they can't help it. But its not pushed as main stream......

Remember 7% of the population.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
One of the arguments offered against any gun control is the “slippery slope” when you start banning things.

Does not that apply to books?

I think it’s all political bullshit to get the loons hyperventilating. Get them sufficiently frightened that their life is being attacked, that their kids are going to be queers, and by god, they will be sending checks and voting for me.

What are these books? Showing guys sucking Dick, or chicks muff diving?

I don’t think any on here are for schools exposing kids to porno, but denying the realities that some men love men and some women love women is not education.

Finally, do any of you have a shred of evidence that by allowing boys to be aware that there are man on man relationships, that that’s going to make the boy think, “Wow, I want to suck me some Dick?”

We had this same discussion here on the pf recently based on another similar news headline. That news article mentioned specific book titles that were easy for me to look up on Amazon. Both Roland and I were shocked, it was nothing either of us would even consider allowing in school.

If you'd prefer I can post an example here but I'd rather not.

I think for public schools, funded by us landowning taxpayers, have a right to the expectations that schools stick to a curriculum of traditional education and not the fluff of any lifestyle.

I would personally prefer when students get into high school many mandatory courses teach things like bookkeeping, home econ, shop skills, basic mechanics, job hunting, etc. I have read that many youth no longer know how to put together a resume, how to attend a job interview, etc. So skills are on the short level and should be taught. I think much of this is due to parents now conditioned to do every stinking thing for their kids. None learn how to earn anything and thus expect it to be provided instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I think for public schools, funded by us landowning taxpayers, have a right to the expectations that schools stick to a curriculum of traditional education and not the fluff of any lifestyle.

I would personally prefer when students get into high school many mandatory courses teach things like bookkeeping, home econ, shop skills, basic mechanics, job hunting, etc. I have read that many youth no longer know how to put together a resume, how to attend a job interview, etc. So skills are on the short level and should be taught. I think much of this is due to parents now conditioned to do every stinking thing for their kids. None learn how to earn anything and thus expect it to be provided instead.

Taking all the books off the shelves defeats the very purpose you support.

In our local school the vocation classes are all cancelled because the manuals are off limits.

First our Senator Scott wants to sunset social security and now the Governor is shutting down every access to books until his private brown shirts can approve what is read.

As shitshooter is the most rampant liar on this forum. Tell us where to find this info that vocational classes are shut down.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Lane, you say that it’s unnatural.

You’re 100% wrong. Gays have always been in our culture, it’s just that most in our American history were forced to hide it for fear of the consequences of coming out.

Gays dont choose to be gay; they were born that way. You, being a man of medicine and science, should know that different mothers give different doses of hormones to the embryo/fetus.

I’ve talked to a number of gay men about their gayness (not too many bull dykes. We don’t seem to get along), and uniformly they all say that they knew at an early age that they were attracted to the same sex.

I think that a lot of this fear of exposing the realty of life is that parents fear that if exposed to the truth, their kids will become queers. It ain’t going to happen. It doesn’t work that way.

Absolutely zero of that^^^is proven.

The syndrome has never been reproduced in animals.

Homosexuality has never been shown in animals.

So what?

The ability to compose an opera has never been shown in animals.

Look at the number of pharmaceutical trials that proved to be successful on various species of animals fail on humans.

“Abstract

After proposing the organizational hypothesis from research in prenatally androgenized guinea pigs (Phoenix et al., 1959), the same authors almost immediately extended the hypothesis to a nonhuman primate model, the rhesus monkey. Studies over the last 50 years have verified that prenatal androgens have permanent effects in rhesus monkeys on the neural circuits that underlie sexually dimorphic behaviors. These behaviors include both sexual and social behaviors, all of which are also influenced by social experience. Many juvenile behaviors such as play and mounting are masculinized, and aspects of adult sexual behavior are both masculinized (e.g. approaches, sex contacts, and mounts) and defeminized (e.g. sexual solicits). Different behavioral endpoints have different periods of maximal susceptibility to the organizing actions of prenatal androgens. Aromatization is not important, as both testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are equally effective in rhesus monkeys. Although the full story of the effects of prenatal androgens on sexual and social behaviors in the rhesus monkey has not yet completely unfolded, much progress has been made. Amazingly, a large number of the inferences drawn from the original 1959 study have proved applicable to this nonhuman primate model.“

And, Lane, I might note that you are wrong in your statement that animals don’t engage in homosexual behavior.

Bonobos have the closest dna to humans of an animal 98.7% the exact same dna.
Their homosexual behavior has been well documented for years.

My rams are always trying to hump each other. Does that mean they are gay?

That in itself proves zero.

Please cite the source.

While I was at TAMU…I was on thesis committee on a similar topic. That would have been 1998. After reading and sitting through 8 hours of discussion of this on that committee. The evidence was nil for natural occurrence of homosexuality in animal species.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
My rams are always trying to hump each other. Does that mean they are gay?

Put an estrus ewe in there with them and you will get your answer.

Google will offer you many sources that support homosexuality with Bonobos. It is will recognize with scholars who study Bonobos. This from Wikipedia:

“If a Bonobos form a matriarchal society, unusual among apes. They are fully bisexual: both males and females engage in hetero- and homosexual behavior, being noted for female–female sex in particular,[91] including between juveniles and adults.[92] Roughly 60% of all bonobo sexual activity occurs between two or more females. While the homosexual bonding system in bonobos represents the highest frequency of homosexuality known in any primate species, homosexuality has been reported for all great apes, as well as a number of other primate species.[93][94][95][96][97]“

And this from “Science” publication

From a strictly Darwinian viewpoint, homosexuality shouldn't still be around. It isn't the best way to pass along one's genes, and to complicate the picture further, no "gay genes" have even been identified. According to a newly released hypothesis, the explanation may not lie in DNA itself. Instead, as an embryo develops, sex-related genes are turned on and off in response to fluctuating levels of hormones in the womb, produced by both mother and child. This tug of war benefits the unborn child, keeping male or female development on a steady course even amid spikes in hormones. But if these so-called epigenetic changes persist once the child is born and has children of its own, some of those offspring may be homosexual, the study proposes.

Evolutionary geneticist William Rice of the University of California, Santa Barbara, felt there had to be a reason why homosexuality didn't just fade away down the generations. Research estimates that about 8% of the population is gay, and homosexuality is known to run in families. If one of a set of identical twins is gay, there's a 20% probability that the other will be, too.

Furthermore, Rice notes, "homosexuality isn't just a human thing." Among California gulls, which he watches from his office window, about 14% of pairs are female-female. In Australian black swans, some 6% of pairs are male-male, and 8% of male sheep are attracted exclusively to male partners.

But many genetic screens have failed to turn up genes that are responsible for sexual orientation. So to find out what makes homosexuality persist, Rice and colleagues began a comprehensive survey of the literature.

According to conventional wisdom, an embryo becomes a boy when a gene on the Y chromosome triggers the development of testes, which then begin to produce male sex hormones, including testosterone, at about the 8th week of gestation. With no Y chromosome and hence no testosterone, the embryo becomes a girl.

But testosterone doesn't explain everything, the researchers found. For one thing, female fetuses are exposed to small amounts of the hormone from their adrenal glands, the placenta, and the mother's endocrine system. At many key points of gestation, male and female fetuses are often exposed to similar amounts of testosterone. Levels of the hormone can even be higher than normal in females and lower than normal in males without any effect on genital or brain structure.

Rice and his co-workers were more intrigued by studies showing that male and female fetuses respond differently to the hormones that surround them, even when one hormone is temporarily higher. In their study, published online today in The Quarterly Review of Biology, the authors propose that differences in sensitivity to sex hormones result from "epigenetic" changes. These are changes that affect not the structure of a gene but when, if, and how much of it is activated—by chemically altering a gene's promoter region or "on" switch, for example. Epigenetic changes at key points in the pathway through which testosterone exerts its effects on the fetus could blunt or enhance the hormone's activity as needed, the authors suggest.

Although epigenetic changes are usually temporary, they involve alterations in the proteins that bind together the long strands of DNA. Thus, they can sometimes be handed down to offspring. According to the hypothesis, homosexuality may be a carry-over from one's parents' own prenatal resistance to the hormones of the opposite sex. The "epi-marks" that adjusted parental genes to resist excess testosterone, for example, may alter gene activation in areas of the child's brain involved in sexual attraction and preference. "These epigenetic changes protect mom and dad during their own early development," Rice says. The initial benefit to the parents may explain why the trait of homosexuality persists throughout evolution, he says.

"The authors have done a terrific job providing a mechanism for genetic variation, especially a variation that might not be expected to persist because it's so tightly bound to reproduction," says evolutionary biologist Marlene Zuk of the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities. But she adds that to go from changes in gene expression to why someone is attracted to a person of the same sex is a question for which science may never fill in all the blanks.“

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Google will offer you many sources that support homosexuality with Bonobos. It is will recognize with scholars who study Bonobos. This from Wikipedia:

“If a Bonobos form a matriarchal society, unusual among apes. They are fully bisexual: both males and females engage in hetero- and homosexual behavior, being noted for female–female sex in particular,[91] including between juveniles and adults.[92] Roughly 60% of all bonobo sexual activity occurs between two or more females. While the homosexual bonding system in bonobos represents the highest frequency of homosexuality known in any primate species, homosexuality has been reported for all great apes, as well as a number of other primate species.[93][94][95][96][97]“

Exactly what type of sexual activity are 2 female apes doing?

See, I need to see proof. You on the other hand are gullible and eat stuff up like that^^^at face value.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
My rams are always trying to hump each other. Does that mean they are gay?

Put an estrus ewe in there with them and you will get your answer.

She wouldn't even need to be in estrus.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
My rams are always trying to hump each other. Does that mean they are gay?

Put an estrus ewe in there with them and you will get your answer.

She wouldn't even need to be in estrus.

But Doug will now want the label them Bi.

Sounds like to me that mental constructs of sexuality such as gay and straight do not really apply to animals.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Sounds like to me that mental constructs of sexuality such as gay and straight do not really apply to animals.

You hit the nail on the head with “mental constructs!”

Wrong. "Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species."

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/new...t%20across%20species.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Lane, you say that it’s unnatural.

You’re 100% wrong. Gays have always been in our culture, it’s just that most in our American history were forced to hide it for fear of the consequences of coming out.

Gays dont choose to be gay; they were born that way. You, being a man of medicine and science, should know that different mothers give different doses of hormones to the embryo/fetus.

I’ve talked to a number of gay men about their gayness (not too many bull dykes. We don’t seem to get along), and uniformly they all say that they knew at an early age that they were attracted to the same sex.

I think that a lot of this fear of exposing the realty of life is that parents fear that if exposed to the truth, their kids will become queers. It ain’t going to happen. It doesn’t work that way.

Absolutely zero of that^^^is proven.

The syndrome has never been reproduced in animals.

Animals aren’t people.

While there may be some same sex activity, who knows what it really means?

In a continually and electively sexually active species like humans with cognitive aspects to sexuality, it’s different.

As to gay identity being inborn, no one knows. The studies trying to link nature vs. nurture all have issues. Identical twin studies show a correlation to sexual identity but it’s not 100%, so the best guess is a combination of causes.

As for gay folks identifying from youth, while I grant a majority do so, not all do.

A common theme in lesbians is sexual assault by a man is historically common.

My best guess is that there are a group of people who can be “taught” to change sexual identity, and they are usually folks with problems unrelated to that. How large a group? Who knows.

It’s pretty obvious that the current permissiveness towards transgenderism is dramatically increasing the numbers found in the population. Is it removing stigma, or is it giving unhappy people a “socially acceptable” label to give their unhappiness?

I dont have an issue with gay men.
But I'm less than thrilled with lesbians.
There is enough competition for good looking women as it is.

I like that Back40.

I have no evidence, but suspect that gayness between men and women may have different causes.

Maybe some bulls are xxy. Look at the East German shotputters from the 80’s.

Why is there I high incidence of lesbianism in women softball teams.

This is my small-town, hill-Billy talking, but a lot of lesbians that I’ve seen are so damn butt ugly, they couldn’t get a guy and resorted to other women to satisfy their sexual gratification. After that statement, you can call me “dumb shit”, but certainly not woke.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
I like that Back40.

I have no evidence, but suspect that gayness between men and women may have different causes.

Maybe some bulls are xxy. Look at the East German shotputters from the 80’s.

Why is there I high incidence of lesbianism in women softball teams.

This is my small-town, hill-Billy talking, but a lot of lesbians that I’ve seen are so damn butt ugly, they couldn’t get a guy and resorted to other women to satisfy their sexual gratification. After that statement, you can call me “dumb shit”, but certainly not woke.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Wrong. "Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species."

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/new...t%20across%20species.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Lane, you say that it’s unnatural.

You’re 100% wrong. Gays have always been in our culture, it’s just that most in our American history were forced to hide it for fear of the consequences of coming out.

Gays dont choose to be gay; they were born that way. You, being a man of medicine and science, should know that different mothers give different doses of hormones to the embryo/fetus.

I’ve talked to a number of gay men about their gayness (not too many bull dykes. We don’t seem to get along), and uniformly they all say that they knew at an early age that they were attracted to the same sex.

I think that a lot of this fear of exposing the realty of life is that parents fear that if exposed to the truth, their kids will become queers. It ain’t going to happen. It doesn’t work that way.

Absolutely zero of that^^^is proven.

The syndrome has never been reproduced in animals.

You can find anything in print. I am talking hard science.

Like I said I sat through a thesis defense on the subject in 1998. No one has ever proven homosexuality exists in animals. Males always prefer a female in estrus if given the choice. I don’t know any studies even trying to look for it in females.

I will stick by my guns on it being unnatural.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I will stick by my guns on it being unnatural.

What is closer to a human, a ram or a bonobo?

You sat in on a study in 1998? A lot has been learned in the last quarter of century.

And…”the more things change…the more things stay the same.”

Cat, I have only one lesbian friend. Meaning we can talk more than "hi, how are you" and such.
One day I went over and carried a new woodstove into her house and put it together. Having a cup of coffee after, I told her " see, men can be useful"
That started the conversation. She said she was attracted to men and women. She said, I was watching your muscles bulge as you moved something with ease, marie and I couldnt move together. But as it excited me, it scared me too. I also though how I wouldn't stand a chance if you wanted to hurt me. She said it is something alot of women struggle with, and she had never been abused, as many women have before they turned to women as partners. " The level playing field" as she puts it, plays a big part in lesbianism.
She said there are men hating Dykes. She felt, they hate men because they felt inferior to them in terms of power. Physical, at the job or in life. And that there were plenty of predatory lesbians, that want to turn all women and unite against men.
This is all one womans opinion. I respect her as telling me how she sees things, whether it fits a large picture or not.....?

In the animal kingdom, homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end so I'd expect that what many here claim is homosexuality in animals is nothing more than coupling (or more) for the simple purpose of physical stimulation similar to grooming.
Also, a friend of mine was a clinical psychologist in the field of sexual behavior and he told me there is no correlation to fetal conditions or scientific support of the notion of being born gay.
They know there is no correlation by studying multiples (twins, triplets) whom were separated at birth to different adoptions. It is incredibly rare that homosexuality in one would be mirrored in another.
He thought that it was primarily environmental, as in the societal acceptance or promotion of a gay lifestyle, that steered the subject one way or another.

Regarding the OP and these books, I read or heard that one would not be allowed to read the text of these books aloud in a school board meeting due to their explicit content. So, why would it be proper to allow them in the libraries of minors if they are too graphic to read to an audience of adults?

This may clear the issue a bit but, of course, depends on what is deemed "obscene":

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/obscenity

This whole thread is proof that society in the USA has lost the plot and common sense should be renamed rare sense soon to be extinct sense.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I dont have an issue with gay men.
But I'm less than thrilled with lesbians.
There is enough competition for good looking women as it is.

.

12-14 years ago I was sitting in the surgery doctor’s lounge on a Saturday afternoon watching college football between cases. There, watching with me was a well known OB-GYN lesbian. During a commercial she turned to me and said “Dollar, you know what we need ?“No”, I said. She said, “a couple of 6 packs and 2 hot chicks”….. I damn near fell out of the chair laughing

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I dont have an issue with gay men.
But I'm less than thrilled with lesbians.
There is enough competition for good looking women as it is.

.

12-14 years ago I was sitting in the surgery doctor’s lounge on a Saturday afternoon watching college football between cases. There, watching with me was a well known OB-GYN lesbian. During a commercial she turned to me and said “Dollar, you know what we need ?“No”, I said. She said, “a couple of 6 packs and 2 hot chicks”….. I damn near fell out of the chair laughing