The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum SCOTUS strikes down ban on bump stocksGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
Not on 2nd Amendment grounds apparently. Statutory text. "The case did not implement (implicate?) the Second Amendment but instead asked whether the Trump administration, through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), stretched the statutory definition of machine guns too far to cover bump stocks." https://thehill.com/regulation...-era-bump-stock-ban/ -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | ||
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One of Us |
This is good. ~Ann   | |||
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One of Us |
I'm gonna go off the reservation on this one. I agree that these things should be thrown into the "Class 3" bucket. I've seen guys at the ranges use them. They function exactly as a class 3, fully automatic firearm. Same goes for the automatic triggers. I can't recall the acronym but they to function as a fully automatic firearm. That said, I am NOT saying that they should not be allowed, just reclassified. Also, if there were a test case to the SCOTUS challenging the class 3 laws, I would be open to that. But to say these two devices are carve-outs is not correct. They are a different way to fire fully automatic. Edit... WOT (wide open triggers) or forced reset triggers. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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One of Us |
+1, and allowing things like this only invites stricter gun control restrictions down the line. Such devices, or cheats, just become the examples cited by gun control advocates as to why tighter controls are necessary. Once again, we have met the enemy, only to learn that the enemy is us. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
Have to agree with Mike. Make a seperate class if folks want to own them. | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree with Justice Sotomayor’s dissent. Well reasoned from existing caselaw and practical, mechanical function of adding a bump stock. I am afraid this is going to bring unwanted legislative attention to the NFA such as the 200 dollar tax having never been raised. I could see bump stocks getting added, and the tax raised to 2-5k. | |||
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| One of Us |
Statute is clear. Not a machine gun unless fires more than one shot by a single function of the trigger. Trump failed to limit firearm ownership by the cheap trick of rule making. Change the statute if your hysterics require it. That is proper governing. This is no different from Biden changing Title IX by his order rather than legislation. | |||
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| One of Us |
That is what bump stocks enable One pull of the trigger using recoil to fire multiple rounds w one pull of the trigger. Adding the stick is no different than changing parts inside the gun. It is the result that should control. Biden’s Title IX policy reflects rulings from multiple Fed Circuit courts. The policy had to be changed or be in violation of Fed courts applying the statute. The Supreme Court refuses to take the issue up. In part, because there are no circuits in controversy. At least, that is the excuse. | |||
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| One of Us |
Congress has abdicated its authority to alphabet agencies! If these things need to be outlawed that should be done by law, by legally elected law makers through established proceedure. | |||
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| One of Us |
The trigger has to be pulled with each shot.....it doesn't make it a machine gun? So....now with you intent matters???? You are a joke little lord fontleroy, A joke! | |||
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| One of Us |
But do it by law. Not rule.....as we see, rules change on whim... And I do believe a bump stock has been used in a crime all of one time????? Sure hope no one uses a double rifle in a crime one time.... . . | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes. But none of this $200 tax shit. If they want a new class for it, it should be free. And also yes, used one time does not make it a spree, by any means. | |||
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| One of Us |
You mean it was TRUMP who passed the bump-stock antigun rule? Imagine the rightwing outrage if Biden did that. | |||
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| One of Us |
No the trigger does not have to be pulled each shot. It worked of recoil hold the trigger down and let it bump from recoil return. | |||
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| One of Us |
Somehow I'm not surprised at JTEX being misinformed once again. | |||
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| One of Us |
It's stupid, nobody needs it. Cutting off our nose despite our face. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
This decision sets up the Overton of Chevron, and seeks to cause the unelected judiciary decide every term of legislation. The function of implementing legislation cannot exist in this day wo regulations. Deference to the agency that can be overcome by a narrow application if a repeatable legal test is more appropriate than ad havoc physical opinion. Again, this decision will have a negative effect on firearms ownership under the NFA 1934. People do not believe one should simply pay 200 bucks and possess this item and others. | |||
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| One of Us |
I invite him to read Justice Sotomayor’s dissent. Justice Thomas is wrong about the function. Hence, why judges should not make these technical decisions. That reality is why Chevron exists. | |||
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| One of Us |
It's interesting but the statutory language argument is legit. Could have been drafted better. Alito's concurrence invites a language change. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
The Act is from 1934. These things did not exist. The inverse is true, if the people through Congress want to pass legislation (it would probably be a bill amending( exempting bump stocks and echo triggers from the NFA I would say okay. I do have to concise that issue. Legislation is the best way. You can bump fire some semis wo a bump stock. My disagreement is that the trigger is not released by the shooter’s bio-mechanics to reset. I also think folks are going to push for the NFA to be stringently amended if bump stocks are just added for an extra 200 dollars. A lot of folks do not know that you can but automatic, “machine guns” manufactured before 1984. | |||
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| One of Us |
You can not get around the mechanics. The sear has to reset after each shot. The bump stock shortens the time of the reset between shots. A person with exceptional reflexes could do the same thing as the bump stock does. | |||
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| One of Us |
The Avt only distinguishes between the manipulation of the trigger. Not the resetting of the sear. | |||
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| One of Us |
No the trigger does not have to be pulled each shot. It worked of recoil hold the trigger down and let it bump from recoil return.[/QUOTE] Setting aside the lack of understanding as to statutory construction, this statement is incorrect. The bump stock allows more rapid trigger pulls. The trigger is still pulled for each shot. If the trigger was "held down" it would only fire 1x. Some gunsmith care to jump in and verify this. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes it was. And I was terribly disappointed with his knee jerk reaction! I am man enough to admit it too. You left wing Biden acolytes think the old fool can do no wrong. | |||
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| One of Us |
No one needs a double rifle, no one needs an '06_with A four round magazine.....no one needs a 10/22.... As,usual you are an idiot.... | |||
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| One of Us |
Setting aside the lack of understanding as to statutory construction, this statement is incorrect. The bump stock allows more rapid trigger pulls. The trigger is still pulled for each shot. If the trigger was "held down" it would only fire 1x. Some gunsmith care to jump in and verify this.[/QUOTE] Its a fact. And little lord fontleroy is wrong again....stupidity runs rampant on the left side of the isle...... | |||
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| One of Us |
Computers, word processors didn't exist when the first amendment was written. You continue to prove that you are a juvenile idiot.... | |||
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| One of Us |
The decision was correct, legally. And that is what the Court is tasked with doing. I agree, that bump stocks should be a Class III. That's something for Congress to address. I'm not happy with the result as I don't like those things, but the Court kicked it back to Congress. BATF can't exceed the rules dictated by the statute. | |||
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| One of Us |
It is not correct under the statute of one trigger pull and Chevron deference. | |||
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| One of Us |
Words processors are kit subject to a definition of one trigger pull for multiple projectiles fired. | |||
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| Administrator |
Banning certain parts of a rifle is just as silly as banning automatics. Lots of people enjoy shooting automatics, and they don't hurt anyone. Punish those who actually commit crimes, regardless of what sort of firearms is used, severely! That will stop it. Most gun laws are affecting law abiding citizens, and hardly do anything to deter real criminals. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well written Saeed! | |||
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| One of Us |
Heym needs to stick to law, he doesnt know shit about firearm mechanics. A bump stock produces roughly half the rate of fire of a full auto. The reason being the sear has to reset and the trigger activated between shots. Ed McGivern used revolvers for his speed shooting because he could outrun the sear reset in a semi auto. 5 shots in 2/5's of a second. Watch some videos of Jerry Miculek. His speed with revolver or semi auto match a bump stock, but still short of full auto. It all comes back to the mechanical operation of the firearm. | |||
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Moderator |
And high speed printers? Can print 1000000000 copies with 1 hit of a key opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
You are both right, but wouldn't it be easier for everyone if we did a little self regulating ourselves? We all agree to some kind of dress code, it has nothing to do with free speech or freedom of expression. There's clothing we agree are appropriate and some that just isn't reasonable or responsible so we regulate ourselves. Firearms have proliferated I believe is the correct word. Before the Gulf Wars our options were pretty limited; Colt and Remington, Smith & Wesson, some military surplus Mausers and oddities like Husqvarna. I thought I counted over 200 manufacturers of AR's and assault rifles. Speaking of reasonable, I believe most AR10's weigh over ten pounds.  Who in the hell wants a 10# 308 Winchester?!?!?!?!And yet is seems there's at least two in every household. Twenty years of War on Terror has led the modern sportsman to believe he's a reservist for Seal Team 6 and it's his God given right to bear tactical socks, a pistol braced AR and it sure is tempting to look around the Internet for a Glock switch. I think a little moderation on our part would go along way. | |||
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| One of Us |
There are bigger issues and implications relating to this. It's a combination and culmination of agenda. It's the same agenda, overall, that produced the plan called Project 2025. It not about the gun. It's about gutting regulatory agencies, and the effect is likened to ratcheting up the dystopia we see now in legislature, for example. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...3ac6e44b3395b&ei=203 How the Supreme Court is setting the U.S. up for a major transformation this month The Supreme Court conservatives' agenda is about more that individual cases and issues. Taken as a whole, it's clear the ultimate goal is a radical transformation of how the United States is governed, and the mountain of rulings due to be released this month will make significant steps toward that goal. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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| One of Us |
Everything has a cycle Scott. There was silhouette shooting, bowling pin shoots, cowboy action shoots. The new shoots are all geared to the AR clones. Around here, they are the only match shooting left of the ones mentioned. They have a timed 600 yd shoot at one range. People do surprisingly well too. When the next fad comes around, many of these semi's will be stacked in the corner gathering dust. As far as appropriate clothing..... must be you have never been in a walmart and seen what is worn there. My eyes still hurt from what I saw.  | |||
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| One of Us |
Scott - To your point, We have allowed the opposition to define us, and we have made no effort to dissuade them. Just thumb through the American Rifleman. You see page after page of black Gore-tex and Velco. The left has skillfully identified this as something they can rally their troops with and make "all of us" look like wanna-be Seal Team 6, as you stated. When I go to a local range, I often wonder why a guy needs a vest and or a chest rig to recreationaly shoot his (or her) AR copy. The S.O.F. image does nothing to improve our long term viability. Self regulation....  Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
Scott said "a little moderation". You said "self-regulation". Hummm. Sounds like something someone like Genghis Khan could sort out. Or, OTOH, maybe a civilized society could sort it out- you know - those among us who cherish the underlying aspect of the constitution AKA known as the social contract of Jefferson. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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| One of Us |
Read Scott's post one more time. He said both of those things. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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