quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
There are bigger issues and implications relating to this.

It's a combination and culmination of agenda.

It's the same agenda, overall, that produced the plan called Project 2025.

It not about the gun. It's about gutting regulatory agencies, and the effect is likened to ratcheting up the dystopia we see now in legislature, for example.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...3ac6e44b3395b&ei=203

How the Supreme Court is setting the U.S. up for a major transformation this month

The Supreme Court conservatives' agenda is about more that individual cases and issues. Taken as a whole, it's clear the ultimate goal is a radical transformation of how the United States is governed, and the mountain of rulings due to be released this month will make significant steps toward that goal.

Good lord
Scotus said "Congress should make the laws, agencies implemented them" and YOU have a problem with that?

quote:

Good lord
Scotus said "Congress should make the laws, agencies implemented them" and YOU have a problem with that?

How is the word "implemented" defined?

What if congress said no to automatic weapons, but didn't define exactly what an automatic weapon is?

Heck, SCOTUS can't even agree on a definition.

Then ATF defined it to include bump-stocks.

So, we're back to dysfunctional congress who can't pass anything. ATF is unable to administer the law.

Yes, laws are passed by lawmakers. The writing of regs to fulfill the law has long been the job of agencies, the experts on details, which change sometimes.

What congress gonna do to fulfill the FDA's job? Define the tests, write the regs, etc.?

And yes, I have a problem when GOPers start with agencies being the Deep State, or Administrative State, and what to change long-standing employment status/criteria from being qualified technically for such govt job to the qualification that matters is loyalty to Trump.

Last I knew each president nominates their own agency heads. I suppose occasionally one is carried over from the last administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...in_the_United_States

List of federal agencies in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...earms_and_Explosives

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

Project 2025

Expansion of Presidental Powers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._presidential_powers

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Good lord
Scotus said "Congress should make the laws, agencies implemented them" and YOU have a problem with that?

How is the word "implemented" defined?

What if congress said no to automatic weapons, but didn't define exactly what an automatic weapon is?

Heck, SCOTUS can't even agree on a definition.

Then ATF defined it to include bump-stocks.

So, we're back to dysfunctional congress who can't pass anything. ATF is unable to administer the law.

Yes, laws are passed by lawmakers. The writing of regs to fulfill the law has long been the job of agencies, the experts on details, which change sometimes.

What congress gonna do to fulfill the FDA's job? Define the tests, write the regs, etc.?

And yes, I have a problem when GOPers start with agencies being the Deep State, or Administrative State, and what to change long-standing employment status/criteria from being qualified technically for such govt job to the qualification that matters is loyalty to Trump.

Wrong as usual, the ATF said bump,stocks where not machine guns...I have a letter from the ATF that proves it....came with a bump stock.

Then president Trump, by fiat had them declared illegal after the Las Vegas shooting....just like that. Turn them in,or destroy them, no recompense, none.

That isn't how govt should work!

Congress should do their job!

There are basic laws and there are silly laws.

Basic laws apply to every normal society in every day life.

And there are silly laws applied to certain factions of society.

The former are great and work, if applied.

The latter never work, and all they do is divide.

Here is a perfect example!

Shoot the bastard on sight!

No court.

No lawyers.

No questions.

This is the sort of crime that requires nothing but instant justice.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Banning certain parts of a rifle is just as silly as banning automatics.

Lots of people enjoy shooting automatics, and they don't hurt anyone.

Punish those who actually commit crimes, regardless of what sort of firearms is used, severely!

That will stop it.

Most gun laws are affecting law abiding citizens, and hardly do anything to deter real criminals.

Well written Saeed!

You are both right, but wouldn't it be easier for everyone if we did a little self regulating ourselves?

We all agree to some kind of dress code, it has nothing to do with free speech or freedom of expression. There's clothing we agree are appropriate and some that just isn't reasonable or responsible so we regulate ourselves.

Firearms have proliferated I believe is the correct word. Before the Gulf Wars our options were pretty limited; Colt and Remington, Smith & Wesson, some military surplus Mausers and oddities like Husqvarna.

I thought I counted over 200 manufacturers of AR's and assault rifles. Speaking of reasonable, I believe most AR10's weigh over ten pounds. Who in the hell wants a 10# 308 Winchester?!?!?!?!
And yet is seems there's at least two in every household.

Twenty years of War on Terror has led the modern sportsman to believe he's a reservist for Seal Team 6 and it's his God given right to bear tactical socks, a pistol braced AR and it sure is tempting to look around the Internet for a Glock switch.

I think a little moderation on our part would go along way.

Scott -

To your point, We have allowed the opposition to define us, and we have made no effort to dissuade them.

Just thumb through the American Rifleman. You see page after page of black Gore-tex and Velco. The left has skillfully identified this as something they can rally their troops with and make "all of us" look like wanna-be Seal Team 6, as you stated.

When I go to a local range, I often wonder why a guy needs a vest and or a chest rig to recreationaly shoot his (or her) AR copy. The S.O.F. image does nothing to improve our long term viability.

Self regulation....

There's several here in DLG that exemplify your observations at your gun range. I'm much more than disappointed; these goons masquerading as adults don't identify as fathers or husbands or Christians or even by their trade or home state, they label themselves as some sort of Soldier of Fortune or hitman/assassin. They really think they're deadly, all 5'10" and 300#s of them.

I was told an interesting story by the father of a Recon Marine: he said his son was promoted to Recon because of the distance and speed he could run. When I point out to my para military middle aged associates that they can't run at all, not fast nor long, not even two steps one foot after the other they reply with a sneer and repeat how deadly they are at the gun range off the bench.

I think this is what perpetual war does to us/ our society. Maybe you and I wanted to be cowboys because of John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies, but today its "Blackhawk Down" and Chris Kyle. I guess the militarization is across the board in our society, gangs and cops, professional soldiers and volunteer citizens. It seems a mistake to me. America was farmers and merchants, bankers and builders teachers and plumbers and transporters.

I'm fly-fish guiding this summer and raising a 7 year old. Tactical socks and pistol brace not required.

Cool--I didn't know you were a fly fisher, Scott. Are you going to be working for one of those lodges that fly you to the stream by helicopter?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Cool--I didn't know you were a fly fisher, Scott. Are you going to be working for one of those lodges that fly you to the stream by helicopter?

Nope.
I have my own thing, "West Side Charters" and I just run my jet skiff locally on the Agulowok, Wood and Muklung rivers.

Simple, uncomplicated. Streamers and beads.

Scott,
If you do not mind, I will pass along your name to a friend who is looking to do just that, some simple fly fishing in Alaska. If you PM me your phone number, I will pass it along as well.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Cool--I didn't know you were a fly fisher, Scott. Are you going to be working for one of those lodges that fly you to the stream by helicopter?

Nope.
I have my own thing, "West Side Charters" and I just run my jet skiff locally on the Agulowok, Wood and Muklung rivers.

Simple, uncomplicated. Streamers and beads.

Kind Folks, I want you to know that Scott is the Real Deal, a rare and prize phenomenon these days. https://dictionary.cambridge.o...ry/english/real-deal

What he does with his charters, where he goes, is World Class, in the locations/geography and the fishery, and the company.

https://www.alaska.org/detail/wood-tikchik-state-park

WOOD-TIKCHIK STATE PARK

There is an interactive map in the website link:
https://www.alaska.org/detail/...kchik-state-park#map

You can scroll around, enlarge, follow links, etc.

One thing to note is the park is large and those lakes shown all have streams linking them together.

https://www.bing.com/images/se...s.&form=IGRE&first=1

quote:

Setting aside the lack of understanding as to statutory construction, this statement is incorrect. The bump stock allows more rapid trigger pulls. The trigger is still pulled for each shot. If the trigger was "held down" it would only fire 1x. Some gunsmith care to jump in and verify this.

A FRT trigger will only fire one round if the trigger is firmly held back. The greater issue is that if classified as a machine gun they do not qualify for NFA registration, they would need to be destroyed. I agree that NFA registration wouldn't be the worst idea but how would such a law be worded that didnt include ALL aftermarket triggers?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...957c3574994bdb&ei=56

The simple thing Supreme Court can’t agree on
Opinion by Richard Galant, CNN • 10h • 11 min read

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Cool--I didn't know you were a fly fisher, Scott. Are you going to be working for one of those lodges that fly you to the stream by helicopter?

Nope.
I have my own thing, "West Side Charters" and I just run my jet skiff locally on the Agulowok, Wood and Muklung rivers.

Simple, uncomplicated. Streamers and beads.

Kind Folks, I want you to know that Scott is the Real Deal, a rare and prize phenomenon these days. https://dictionary.cambridge.o...ry/english/real-deal

What he does with his charters, where he goes, is World Class, in the locations/geography and the fishery, and the company.

https://www.alaska.org/detail/wood-tikchik-state-park

WOOD-TIKCHIK STATE PARK

There is an interactive map in the website link:
https://www.alaska.org/detail/...kchik-state-park#map

You can scroll around, enlarge, follow links, etc.

One thing to note is the park is large and those lakes shown all have streams linking them together.

https://www.bing.com/images/se...s.&form=IGRE&first=1

I once floated by canoe through the upper lakes in that chain of lakes, but we didn't find good fishing until we hit the Agulukpak (sp?) River. Didn't have time to go all the way to the Agulowok River.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It is not correct under the statute of one trigger pull and Chevron deference.

I have not shot a bump stocked weapon. From what I've read the bottom line is not much different from automatic fire, maybe slower but not easier to fire accurately.
The Pederson Device was not propagated into civilian society, differs legally in minor respects from a bump stock.

Just saw on PBS News Hour youtube video Brooks and Dionne, that the Obama Administration looked at banning bump stocks and didn't pursue it due to their reading the statute just like Thomas and the majority did.
It took Trump and his complete disrespect for law and order as well as the separation of powers, to say "I do what I want".
Trump and the anti gunners here and in society are sympatico.

i have shot bumpfire stocked firearms ... it's fun for 30 seconds... but the "fitment" is rather wobbly.. in single fire they pattern, not group ... 3 aimed shots at 50, about 8-9 inches...

not for me, but if it floats your boat, good for you

I’ve fired bump stocks, bump fired semiautomatic weapons, and fired the military versions.

I’ve yet to see a bump stock that was as controllable as the military item.

Bump firing a regular rifle is doable, but I’ve never had more than 2-3 shots… and you can hit what you are aiming at with those.

Near as I can tell a bump stock can fire a variable length burst of fire that is good for minute of berm accuracy. I could put more rounds on target with a full auto M14 than with the bump stock AR 15.

They are essentially useless.

If you want one, now that they are legal again, have at it… but I’m not buying one.