quote:

A sentence of death is reserved for individuals convicted of murder involving aggravating circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Couldn't hurt. Why should we have to pay to feed and house someone like this for the rest of his life?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My attitude is this sort of human trash have no right to breath normal air!

An innocent person unknown to them, has never done any of them any hard, and killed for likes on sick media.

Hang the bastards, and everyone like them.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My attitude is this sort of human trash have no right to breath normal air!

An innocent person unknown to them, has never done any of them any hard, and killed for likes on sick media.

Hang the bastards, and everyone like them.

What justice or vindication do you get? How is your day better after?

At least the Chief was innocent in all this. The guilty perps? Their mother? Their lives are as valuable as any of ours but by their own hand are ruined, doomed, destroyed. Very sad I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
My attitude is this sort of human trash have no right to breath normal air!

An innocent person unknown to them, has never done any of them any hard, and killed for likes on sick media.

Hang the bastards, and everyone like them.

What justice or vindication do you get? How is your day better after?

At least the Chief was innocent in all this. The guilty perps? Their mother? Their lives are as valuable as any of ours but by their own hand are ruined, doomed, destroyed. Very sad I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Couldn't hurt. Why should we have to pay to feed and house someone like this for the rest of his life?

If I understand correctly it costs us more to execute them than it does to house them.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
In China they drug them, lead them into a stadium, line them up and ea h has one standing behind him with a pistol.

BANG!

In the bs k of the head, end of story!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Couldn't hurt. Why should we have to pay to feed and house someone like this for the rest of his life?

If I understand correctly it costs us more to execute them than it does to house them.

I am not saying that is not true…but I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. And if it is…it is our bastardized criminal justice system that has arbitrarily made it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
additional deaths won't bring him back.

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Prashant Yadav, a lecturer at Harvard medical school, said that states have paid as much as a 1,000% markup on execution drugs, compared to the usual market price of the drugs. “These drugs are being traded in a zone of unclear regulatory apparatus, and so they typically charge a higher price,” he said.

quote:

Why is the death penalty so expensive?
Legal costs: Almost all people who face the death penalty cannot afford their own attorney. The state must assign public defenders or court-appointed lawyers to represent them (the accepted practice is to assign two lawyers), and pay for the costs of the prosecution as well.
Pre-trial costs: Capital cases are far more complicated than non-capital cases and take longer to go to trial. Experts will probably be needed on forensic evidence, mental health, and the background and life history of the defendant. County taxpayers pick up the costs of added security and longer pre-trial detention.
Jury selection: Because of the need to question jurors thoroughly on their views about the death penalty, jury selection in capital cases is much more time consuming and expensive.
Trial: Death-penalty trials can last more than four times longer than non-capital trials, requiring juror and attorney compensation, in addition to court personnel and other related costs.
Incarceration: Most death rows involve solitary confinement in a special facility. These require more security and other accommodations as the prisoners are kept for 23 hours a day in their cells.
Appeals: To minimize mistakes, every prisoner is entitled to a series of appeals. The costs are borne at taxpayers’ expense. These appeals are essential because some inmates have come within hours of execution before evidence was uncovered proving their innocence.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I am researching the statement that the execution costs more than keeping them in prison for life - the fed costs are higher, but i'll cover it later - there are 2363 State death row convicts, and 42(technically 41) federal death row.
state
federal 42 or 41

In searching, I went down a couple rabbit holes on what "life" meant, which in some states is 15 to 20 years before parole, but that isn't directly relevant. Let's assume a low of 20 years and a range to 30 years - that should cover the majority, with there being more cases higher than lower

The average cost, per year, in state prison (which hold most of the death row prisoners) is slightly more than $45K per year link here
Which means that the range of cost from $900,000 to $1,350,000 - roughly .9M to 1.35M, or an average of $1.1M more or less

a stiltedly worded, but valuable data, on the cost (we'll use per unit, not totals) can be found here

quote:

Prashant Yadav, a lecturer at Harvard medical school, said that states have paid as much as a 1,000% markup on execution drugs, compared to the usual market price of the drugs. “These drugs are being traded in a zone of unclear regulatory apparatus, and so they typically charge a higher price,” he said.

The cost of the drugs ranges from less than $90 (yes, less than ninety dollars) in TX to as high as nearly $64k in TN, with the average at $20k - let's add a factor of 5 to cover costs, for $100k for States

The $1M cost, bandied about? Well, it's an interesting story - but the fulcrum is the incarceration costs (see above) for the entire time is included in these costs - that is, the $1M to hold a prisoner is added to the cost - here

Here some of the components of the $1m cost

quote:

Why is the death penalty so expensive?
Legal costs: Almost all people who face the death penalty cannot afford their own attorney. The state must assign public defenders or court-appointed lawyers to represent them (the accepted practice is to assign two lawyers), and pay for the costs of the prosecution as well.
Pre-trial costs: Capital cases are far more complicated than non-capital cases and take longer to go to trial. Experts will probably be needed on forensic evidence, mental health, and the background and life history of the defendant. County taxpayers pick up the costs of added security and longer pre-trial detention.
Jury selection: Because of the need to question jurors thoroughly on their views about the death penalty, jury selection in capital cases is much more time consuming and expensive.
Trial: Death-penalty trials can last more than four times longer than non-capital trials, requiring juror and attorney compensation, in addition to court personnel and other related costs.
Incarceration: Most death rows involve solitary confinement in a special facility. These require more security and other accommodations as the prisoners are kept for 23 hours a day in their cells.
Appeals: To minimize mistakes, every prisoner is entitled to a series of appeals. The costs are borne at taxpayers’ expense. These appeals are essential because some inmates have come within hours of execution before evidence was uncovered proving their innocence.

In other words, it's the same costs until the point of execution to a house a prisoner for the same period of time


So, sure, the cost of holding someone for 20 years is roughly the same as holding someone for 20 years - so zero difference -
the specific costs of execution, which I stipulate $100k would be all inclusive, is roughly the cost of two years of "housing" all else being equal

I trust this disproves the concept that it costs more to execute prisoners than it does to house them for LIFE

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Scott,
I was comparing "housing" them for a life sentence vs the actual cost of execution - I believe in every up-level appeal they can make - assuming a higher court makes a better decision for reasons - and takes the local aspects out of it---

In the case of these two, exhibit A sort of wraps up the case - show that 5 times to juries, with whatever defense witnesses/experts they want - should be pretty rapid --

The Idaho killer? dude, that case is going to take FOREVER

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Tell me my friend, what is the difference between these two?

Why shoot the alligator?

And not those two utterly inhuman criminals?

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Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

Is there any doubt about these low lives?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

Is there any doubt about these low lives?

Not much, but in this Country we place such store by "due process of Law" that it's in two different Amendments to our Constitution, including in the Fifth which, as one of the Bill of Rights, isn't really an amendment so much as an integral part of the Constitution.

All those appeals people hate so much are part of due process.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

Is there any doubt about these low lives?

Not much, but in this Country we place such store by "due process of Law" that it's in two different Amendments to our Constitution, including in the Fifth which, as one of the Bill of Rights, isn't really an amendment so much as an integral part of the Constitution.

All those appeals people hate so much are part of due process.

Isn't the whole idea of due process is to make sure the guilty ARE guilty?

Why wast millions on jails and paying stupid lawyers for something we all know to be true?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
It need not cost so much. I just bought 100 rounds of .45 ammo for about $100. A dollar a round, while outrageous, is a whole lot cheaper than the drugs.

The drugs are dirt cheap as well. Hundreds of animals are “humanely” euthanized each day for less than $100 of drugs.

Put them on a timeline after they are sentenced to death. Let's say five years. If their lawyers can't stop it, it happens with a $1 bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

Is there any doubt about these low lives?

Not much, but in this Country we place such store by "due process of Law" that it's in two different Amendments to our Constitution, including in the Fifth which, as one of the Bill of Rights, isn't really an amendment so much as an integral part of the Constitution.

All those appeals people hate so much are part of due process.

Isn't the whole idea of due process is to make sure the guilty ARE guilty?

Why wast millions on jails and paying stupid lawyers for something we all know to be true?

Because what "all know to be true" too often turns out to be wrong. Eyewitness testimony, long considered the most reliable evidence there is, has been proven over and over to be very unreliable, police officers, either through corruption or a sincere belief in a suspect's guilt, manufacture, plant or slant evidence. If you and I are observed performing the exact same actions in exactly the same place yours will be interpreted as "suspicious" more frequently than mine, regardless of the reality.

We find people on Death Row who are factually innocent all the time but what we'll never know is how many we executed without ever discovering their innocence.

If we can make sure we have the right guy I'm all for whacking him, and for particularly egregious offenses I'd favor some relaxation of the prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishment" because some acts "deserve" exactly that; hell, if the pay is good enough I'll take the job on BUT, let's make sure we're right.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I have no objection to executing the guilty, but we really should make damned sure we're only executing the guilty.

Anything else is murdering the innocent, which our government shouldn't be doing.

Is there any doubt about these low lives?

Not much, but in this Country we place such store by "due process of Law" that it's in two different Amendments to our Constitution, including in the Fifth which, as one of the Bill of Rights, isn't really an amendment so much as an integral part of the Constitution.

All those appeals people hate so much are part of due process.

Isn't the whole idea of due process is to make sure the guilty ARE guilty?

Why wast millions on jails and paying stupid lawyers for something we all know to be true?

Because what "all know to be true" too often turns out to be wrong. Eyewitness testimony, long considered the most reliable evidence there is, has been proven over and over to be very unreliable, police officers, either through corruption or a sincere belief in a suspect's guilt, manufacture, plant or slant evidence. If you and I are observed performing the exact same actions in exactly the same place yours will be interpreted as "suspicious" more frequently than mine, regardless of the reality.

We find people on Death Row who are factually innocent all the time but what we'll never know is how many we executed without ever discovering their innocence.

If we can make sure we have the right guy I'm all for whacking him, and for particularly egregious offenses I'd favor some relaxation of the prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishment" because some acts "deserve" exactly that; hell, if the pay is good enough I'll take the job on BUT, let's make sure we're right.

Are we wrong in this instance?

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Tell me my friend, what is the difference between these two?

Why shoot the alligator?

And not those two utterly inhuman criminals?

I wanted to speak to this specifically.

Mosquito Abatement goes on almost nation wide and the USA is the better for it. Wolves and Brown Bears were eliminated in the Lower 48 and our agriculture industry was the better for it. Prairie Dogs were poisoned, coyotes trapped, and even here in AK, Arctic Char had a bounty on them in order to preserve salmon and there was no down side.

I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a snake that shouldn't be shot. I don't care, Lucifer took the form of a snake, so fuck that, fuck him, fuck snakes, where's my suppressed .22 .

Why in the world do we have 14' long man eating reptiles living in urban America?!?!?!?! I live with man eating bears and wolves every day here, but there ain't but a few dozen of us residing here and the motion sensor outdoor lights send the predators scurrying.

I saw a video just today of an alligator wrangler roping a big gator off someone's front porch. Man, I mean that is the only reason I can see for a homeowner to have two 30 round magazines taped together for their AR.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Tell me my friend, what is the difference between these two?

Why shoot the alligator?

And not those two utterly inhuman criminals?

I wanted to speak to this specifically.

Mosquito Abatement goes on almost nation wide and the USA is the better for it. Wolves and Brown Bears were eliminated in the Lower 48 and our agriculture industry was the better for it. Prairie Dogs were poisoned, coyotes trapped, and even here in AK, Arctic Char had a bounty on them in order to preserve salmon and there was no down side.

I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen a snake that shouldn't be shot. I don't care, Lucifer took the form of a snake, so fuck that, fuck him, fuck snakes, where's my suppressed .22 .

Why in the world do we have 14' long man eating reptiles living in urban America?!?!?!?! I live with man eating bears and wolves every day here, but there ain't but a few dozen of us residing here and the motion sensor outdoor lights send the predators scurrying.

I saw a video just today of an alligator wrangler roping a big gator off someone's front porch. Man, I mean that is the only reason I can see for a homeowner to have two 30 round magazines taped together for their AR.

Here's to you, Scott
https://youtube.com/shorts/iLr...?si=-TBmy8dBEHgdsMcy

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
It need not cost so much. I just bought 100 rounds of .45 ammo for about $100. A dollar a round, while outrageous, is a whole lot cheaper than the drugs. Put them on a timeline after they are sentenced to death. Let's say five years. If their lawyers can't stop it, it happens with a $1 bullet.