I have not purchased any. It scares me to be honest.

I have thought about buying a small quantity where it didn’t really matter if I lost it all. I got busy and failed to follow up. When the price skyrocketed, I bagged the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I see articles all the time about hackers stealing Bitcoins. I'm not good enough on the computer to feel safe owning them.

That is the good and the bad of being decentralized. No bank with their hands in the mix, but its also on you to protect your own holdings. Not too hard if you have a good system in place.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:
I would never invest real world money in crypto-currencies BUT there are other ways to get them.

A few years ago I did a bunch of research into what it takes to mine for Bitcoin and found out that it requires a huge amount of computing power that cost a lot of money and burns lots of electricity to operate...during my research though I found some crypto-currencies that can be mined with simple laptop or desktop cpu running the mining algorithm. I researched what ones I though were/are the most stable and profitable. I have a couple old laptops in my house that we mostly use for our media server/file/print sharing so they are always on and consuming power anyways and I decided that they might as well be making me some return on their power consumption so I set them up to mine for CPU based coins.

Doing it this way I'm not spending any money that I wasn't already spending before, I didn't have to invest anything but my time to learn how to do it and when I have enough of the CPU based coins I trade some of them on an exchange for Bitcoins.

Doing it this way I have no risk and all reward and the cost is the same as what I was already spending to have those same laptop running anyways. I'll never get rich doing it this way because the exchange rate between cpu based and bitcoin is very low but when bitcoin spikes up like it did recently I sold most of mine and converted it to U.S. dollars that I can spend on real world stuff. If the bubble burst and it all comes crashing down tomorrow I won't feel bad about it because I don't have any real world money invested in crypto-currency.

I wouldn't recommend anyone spend real dollars to buy crypto-currency but for nothing more than learning how to set-up the software on a computer and how to monitor the rates and use a reputable exchange it can be a decent way to make a few thousand a year with little effort and only the cost of running a laptop(that in my case was running anyways).

It is not cheap to mine. Almost not worth it these days. You would also need to pay for your power usage with real money.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
Did anyone hold since 2014?
CHA-CHING!

Looks like crypto has hit the mainstream and is here to stay. The tech is undeniable (especially Ethereum & Stellar IMO). Barrier to entry to getting lower and lower. Rumors of a big exchange coming making it much easier to buy alt coins with Fiat currency. Anyone out there getting in the mix?

Eth is up 100 fold in 2017. Who cares if the technology is awesome - why buy coins up 10000 percent and massively volatile to use a foundation for any ledger activity.

Yes I owned eth for a whole week or less. Made slightly less than 10k - bought 2 auction hunts at sci last year and had some change left. If I held those coins I could shoot enough game to win a few inner circle awards.

Arpf is the wrong forum for crypto - members are generally too old and not tech savvy hipsters or desperate Asian housewives.

I had a buddy who quit his hedge fund to get into this late 2016 - he talked me into them and i talked myself out of them.

One needs to be a true believer to own stuff up 100x and a true fool to buy stuff up 100z assuming a liner price progression.


The nation states will destroy these currencies by regulation taxation and theft.

Mike

This is the exact reason I love the technology and the movement. It defies all the conventional rules of banking and investing. Making all these old guys that are fat and happy with the old outdated ways, nervous and quick to dismiss it all. Bubble, fraud, tulips, etc...

So I guess I'm a fool for buying ETH at $400 and XLM at .25, but not so much for holding BTC since 2014. So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Whether its a bubble or not, doesn't really matter to me. If I lose some cash by holding, I'm OK with that. It's fun to be a part of something that will change the world. The technology will be implemented in almost everything we do within years. That I am sure of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDGq4aeevgY

https://globalnews.ca/news/397...ockchain-canada-nrc/

http://news.abs-cbn.com/busine...chain-payment-system

https://hbr.org/2017/01/the-truth-about-blockchain

With all due respect for your opinions, your posts remind me of an old Wall St. saying, which you should consider.....You never go broke taking a profit.

+1

Hopefully Bobby bought in size. But when something goes up 30x-60x in 3 years it becomes ones whole portfolio even a 2 percent position.


Some blurbs from Goldman

https://www.financemagnates.co...achs%E2%80%8E-warns/

Mike

I'm no expert on any of this. I just know I've only invested what I am OK with losing completely.

One word to remember, and its not Bitcoin. It is BLOCKCHAIN.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
I'm no expert on any of this. I just know I've only invested what I am OK with losing completely.

One word to remember, and its not Bitcoin. It is BLOCKCHAIN.

Me either, but it seems like blockchain is going to fill an awful lot of hard disk drives, even in Bluffdale...

quote:

I'm no expert on any of this. I just know I've only invested what I am OK with losing completely.

The number you should be concerned with is not what you invested, but what you can realize now out of that investment.

Bitcoin, no thanks.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

I'm no expert on any of this. I just know I've only invested what I am OK with losing completely.

The number you should be concerned with is not what you invested, but what you can realize now out of that investment.

Wonder how concerned the guys who bought in at $17,000 are now...

Not to worry, the true believers will support it, maybe?

It's certainly popular with criminals so...

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It's certainly popular with criminals so...

Not really

You want to be the money guy going your cartel boss in Juarez telling him the money you wanted transferred you did via bitcoin at $17k is now 11k.

On the upside there is no payout using bitcoin for the intermediary - on the way down a nice hanging from a bridge.

This is all Asian retail.

Mike

Seth Klarman take

https://www.newsmax.com/financ...018/01/25/id/839471/

Mike

They mention Stripe dropping bitcoin, but fail to mention that Stripe themselves is heavily invested in blockchain technology and will probably partner with another platform to process payments.

https://stripe.com/blog/ending-bitcoin-support


Once again even though the title of this thread is bitcoin, the real discussion should go beyond bitcoin.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
They mention Stripe dropping bitcoin, but fail to mention that Stripe themselves is heavily invested in blockchain technology and will probably partner with another platform to process payments.

https://stripe.com/blog/ending-bitcoin-support


Once again even though the title of this thread is bitcoin, the real discussion should go beyond bitcoin.

Why?

Bitcoin in a nice mechanism to see a bubble. Bubbles are more fun to discuss than alternative computer coding and communication algos.

Mike

To learn about new things that might change the world? no big deal. I guess tulips didn't change the world like they were supposed to either/

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
To learn about new things that might change the world? no big deal. I guess tulips didn't change the world like they were supposed to either/

That is simple - buy a blaser - it is revolutionary.

Bubbles are fun to watch - shows human behavior. Primates will always be primates.

Mike

bobby7321:

It may seem like I am picking on you, but I'm really not, you're just the victim of a common delusion.

AFA changing the world, I direct you to one of my favorite foreign language sayings, in French, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"—"the more it changes, the more it's the same thing", usually translated as "the more things change, the more they stay the same. It applies to bitcoins and their true believers as well.

I wish you the greatest of success with your bitcoins, but remember, to paraphrase Ecclesiates, "to everything there is a season, a time to buy, and a time to sell." Good Luck.

To those who think its just a silly fad:

What would it take for you to believe the technology is a major advancement and something to ? A certain person or large company adopting it? Just curious.

Side note who is up for a friendly wager based on the future of crypto-currencies?

Remind me what you buy bitcoins with? That's right! Real money!

Any commodity one cannot sell is not one I'm interested in.

You do realize that you can sell them at anytime after you buy them right?

A Ponzi scheme sitting on top of a bubble... remind me again what exactly you can buy with a bitcoin. Somehow I can’t see Walmart, your local car dealer, mortgage company, etc taking a bitcoin for payment. Those who got in at the bottom( and cashed out) got rich. The rest of the sheep got fleeced and the pigs got butchered.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
To those who think its just a silly fad:

What would it take for you to believe the technology is a major advancement and something to ? A certain person or large company adopting it? Just curious.

Side note who is up for a friendly wager based on the future of crypto-currencies?

I wouldn't deign to pass judgment at this point, but will mention the legal necessity of paying taxes on barter income...

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
To those who think its just a silly fad:

What would it take for you to believe the technology is a major advancement and something to ? A certain person or large company adopting it? Just curious.

Side note who is up for a friendly wager based on the future of crypto-currencies?

Me me me

I am willing to bet in size - 20 years bitcoin will be worth less than $10k.

We can put the wagered amount in us govt bonds.

I am not willing to have the bet close before 20 years and payoff is only bitcoin value at end of 20 years not during.

Mike

These are the swell folks mining and maintaining bitcoin

http://www.businessinsider.com...shp2pool--1649-22220

End of day you are massively long china risk as bitcoin is basically based in China.

Mike

https://www.lifewire.com/big-s...oin-payments-3485965


there ya go. just a few. But that doesn't make it anything special. You guys are missing the point behind the technology and just focusing on what you've heard others say about Bitcoin.

I don't even own ANY bitcoin anymore. I am not trying to convince you that bitcoin is a good investment. I am telling you that blockchain (tech that Bitcoin runs on) is going to be a huge innovation across many different spaces. So it might be worth looking into and at least understanding.

I can tell you one thing. This sure as shit isn't tulips.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
https://www.lifewire.com/big-s...oin-payments-3485965


there ya go. just a few. But that doesn't make it anything special. You guys are missing the point behind the technology and just focusing on what you've heard others say about Bitcoin.

I don't even own ANY bitcoin anymore. I am not trying to convince you that bitcoin is a good investment. I am telling you that blockchain (tech that Bitcoin runs on) is going to be a huge innovation across many different spaces. So it might be worth looking into and at least understanding.

I can tell you one thing. This sure as shit isn't tulips.

I will extend the bet to any existing crypto curriency. If this the best thing since slice bread it would be a easy bet to win over 20 years.

My issues is not with block chain. My issue is with speculation in a currency used as a accounting unit. The volatilty via speculation negates its use as a functional currency, this is Zimbabwe in reverse - the outcome is still the same for functional currency use. You cannot have a functional currency increase or decrease 1000 percent in a year or 10 percent in a day.

As to block chain - hope you played the derivatives trades in chips and computing. For block chain to be next best thing - computation power has to increase. You cannot use this much power https://www.theguardian.com/te...imate-cryptocurrency

I have more faith in cheaper computation power that in hopes that something up 100x and moving 10 percent a day with be the basis of a functional currency.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
You do realize that you can sell them at anytime after you buy them right?

One of the big owners moved 100,000 coins to an exchange to sell and the whole flock of sheep panicked and the price plummeted. Good luck trying to "sell them at anytime".

Since I've been dropping them like the price of Bitcoins, I thought I'd add one I just read today to the mix:

Ben Graham’s saying:

"You are neither right nor wrong because the crowd disagrees with you. You are right because the data and reasoning are right.”

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It's certainly popular with criminals so...

Not really

You want to be the money guy going your cartel boss in Juarez telling him the money you wanted transferred you did via bitcoin at $17k is now 11k.

On the upside there is no payout using bitcoin for the intermediary - on the way down a nice hanging from a bridge.

This is all Asian retail.

Mike

That's not how it works Mike. The blockchain is bought and sold on the same day within minutes. Cartels are not investing in blockchain, only using it to cover the transaction.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
It is not cheap to mine. Almost not worth it these days. You would also need to pay for your power usage with real money.

That's why I don't mine Bitcoin, the cost of equipment, the power consumption of the mining rig, the cooling cost to keep the hardware from over heating.

Coins that can be CPU mined can still be cost effective if like in my case the computer is already running 24/7 consuming power. Just have to do the research and chose ones that are stable and have a decent rate of exchange.

Like I said I won't get rich doing it this way but I am already spending the money to keep the computer on 24/7 so it might as well be doing something to make a bit of money for me.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar: remind me again what exactly you can buy with a bitcoin.

It's a pretty long list because it includes everything you can buy with every other currency in the world but here goes...Real Estate, Precious medals, vehicles, hotel rooms, airfare, plastic surgery center in New York is now taking them...those are kind of infrequent purchases so how about some everyday or smaller stuff...some burger kings are accepting them so you could get fast food or there is a club in Las Vegas that lets you pay for there services including lap dances with bitcoin. Cab fare, some Uber and Lyft drivers and even some main stream cab companies are accepting Bitcoin.

There is of course a a lot of online retailers that accept them. If you do any amount of online shopping you've probably already done business with a company that accepts them and didn't even notice.

You can do what I do, mine for a cheap coin, exchange for Bitcoin when it is low and then sell high and have the sale transferred into a bank account(real world money at that point).

You can buy pretty much anything with bitcoin if you want to.

And since this is a Gun Forum I know of at least one gun shop in Texas that lets you buy guns with Bitcoin.

Just imagine buying real world stuff or investing in things with nothing more than a medium of exchange that is only backed by the idea that everyone agrees it has value...ohh wait we do that everyday with fiat money. Banks fail, we bailed some of ours out a few years back if I remember correctly. Governments fall, it's happened all over the world time and again. Business' go bankrupt everyday. Currencies and economies can be manipulated, consider Zim dollars, I have a couple 1 Million dollar bills...hyper-inflation, yeah that currency might have been a little unstable and remind me again what was it backed by?

The point is I wouldn't recommend putting real world currency into crypto-currency unless you were treating it just like any other high risk speculative investment but I also don't have any problem with finding other ways to get it and I certainly don't have any problem using it as a medium of exchange just like any other medium of exchange.

Then again a couple weeks ago I fixed a rifle for my cousin's boss and he paid me with a Pig that I promptly butchered and put in my freezer. So I am pretty flexible when it comes to what constitutes a valuable medium of exchange for goods and services.

From what I read, Bitcoin value can vary as much as 10% in a single day. How would any business know what they have in dollar value for a physical product they are selling? You buy a house in the morning for $100,000 and by days end it could be worth $110,000 or $90,000? using third world currency- especially Zim- as a case in point for owning bitcoin is pretty disingenuous....There is a good reason the dollar is the gold standard worldwide.

Bitcoin trading volume

https://data.bitcoinity.org/ma...s/volume/all?c=e&t=b

It can go away pretty quick.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...ercent-of-the-market

How easy is it to move bitcoin prices

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/2...to-1000-in-2013.html

This is the wild Wild West of trading. Last guy to the party normally gets left with the tab.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
From what I read, Bitcoin value can vary as much as 10% in a single day. How would any business know what they have in dollar value for a physical product they are selling? You buy a house in the morning for $100,000 and by days end it could be worth $110,000 or $90,000? using third world currency- especially Zim- as a case in point for owning bitcoin is pretty disingenuous....There is a good reason the dollar is the gold standard worldwide.

You misunderstood my point, I wasn't using Zim dollars as a reason to own Bitcoin, I was using it as an example that currencies fail. I also pointed out that gov't fail banks fail and businesses go bankrupt in that same paragraph.

Currently the U.S. dollar is the world reserve but that doesn't mean it will always be that way and it is looking more and more like the global standards are changing these days.

The U.S. Dollar isn't immune, a short history reading will easily confirm that the U.S. Dollar has had more than a couple problems in our countries short existence. Sad as it is to say, we aren't the world leaders we used to be.

I'll say it again, I wouldn't invest real world money in Bitcoin, but I will invest time in learning how to get crypto-currencies without spending more than I am already spending.

Like any investment you have to put in the time and do the research to know if what you are doing is a good choice.

I have a question for you jdollar...why be negative about what other people are doing when it has no bearing on your own life since you aren't participating?

How did you guys feel about the internet when it first came on the scene? Amazon? Facebook? I can only guess.


If anyone is actually interested in learning about this new technology, watch this 15 minute Tedx video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplnSVTzvnU


If anyone is interested in learning more or interested on how to acquire some of these less known coins/tokens (NOT BITCOIN), shoot me a PM.

and this one too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSN5BaCzsbo

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
How did you guys feel about the internet when it first came on the scene? Amazon? Facebook? I can only guess.


If anyone is actually interested in learning about this new technology, watch this 15 minute Tedx video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplnSVTzvnU


If anyone is interested in learning more or interested on how to acquire some of these less known coins/tokens (NOT BITCOIN), shoot me a PM.

Other than amazon most first gen internet companies went bust.

Google was second gen ipo in 2004

Facebook was gen three ipo in 2012

The move in eth in last year has exceeded Amazon entire return since ipo.

The price appreciation and volatility in eth and other cyber currencies destroys their proposed core use.

Till then enjoy the ride.

Mike