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I do notice, those that don't live in elk country tend to prefer heavier weaponry... that right there should be a hint.  | |||
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Not sure what that has to do with anything... | |||
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+1 Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I have killed most of my elk with a 270 Win. A few more with the 375 H&H, 7 mm Mag, 7 mm Mauser and 450/400. My minimum would be the 7 mm Mauser with 160 grain Noslers. That's not to say some other smaller calibers might not also work. 465H&H | |||
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I'm sure part of that comes from the fact that if you're coming from out of state to hunt elk, a hunt costs a lot of money and usually doesn't last more than a week, so people tend to bring a cannon so that they don't have to pass up on quartering shots or head on shots, or even Texas heart shots. | |||
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And the other side of the coin being, if you buy your resident over the counter license and hunt them in your back 40. You can take your time, wait for the right shot angle at a very comfortable distance and shoot it with whatever caliber makes you happy. Its a treat and expensive for me to elk hunt. I take a big gun, but I do bring one I have shot lots and am comfortable with in terms of recoil. If I could just get those Kentucky elk to move 3 counties in deer season then I could legally harvest one on my deer tag with my deer rifle. But alas I'm still waiting.  | |||
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Actually, it's been my observation out-of-state hunters actually have more time elk hunting than us locals, who have jobs and limited time. | |||
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That sounds good, but is rare that you can "shoot a bull in the back 40"... most of us here in MT can't afford the multi-million dollar property that would hold elk during the season... most of us are hunting public ground. | |||
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My favorite elk story involves a guy from Ohio that came out one year to hunt elk and muley with the outfitter I have hunted with. The guy was telling uss that he had wanted to hunt elk for 35 years and had finally gotten the chance. The outfitter had me drive the guy out to the gun range to check his gun out and the guy was pretty dang good. Now he was using a Model 99 Savage in .308. Opening morning, in a 30 minute time frame, he killed a 5x5 bull and a small 4x4 muley with either 2 or 3 shots total fired. We were on a private low fence ranch that backed up to the National Forest. But this guy showed up with a gun he was comfortable and confident with, that he was used to, and he accomplished what he wanted to accomplish with it. I use the larger calibers even on white tail, simply because I want to be able to take any shot offered. It is not that important when setting in a blind watching a feeder, but given the opportunity, I prefer spot and stalk and shot conditions under that type of hunting are not always text book perfect. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I've used a 308 quite a bit here in MT on deer and elk... works just fine. | |||
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I have a pic of one of my friends kneeling beside a buffalo courtesy of a .308 Win. | |||
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my two main hunting rifles are a winchester push feed 7x57 ackley and a remingtin 700 in 8 mauser. i built the 7 around the 139 gr bullet with a douglas 5r bbl in 10 twist and had it throated as such. it is my go to elk rifle. i just had a 25-06 done on a mauser action, with a slower twist bbl to shoot 95-100 gr bullets from. that will be my deer,antelope rifle starting next year. the poor 8mm remington 700 is used mainly on ground squirells with cast bullets. i don't see things changing past that any time soon. | |||
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My elk calibers... 35 Remington (I know blasphemy but its amazing what you can do when you get to within a 100 yards) 358 Winchester 8x57 Mauser 270 Win 308 Win Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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It's been my observation that almost all out-of-staters actually have jobs and some(most?) even have limited time. I know the four elk hunts I've DYI in Co were 5-6 days actual hunting and I had to be back to work(job) the day after I returned to Al. My experience in KILLING elk is that they are big, tough animals that tend to not show much/any reaction to a bullet strike. I've used a 270Win on one elk, dead, three shots/hits, elk ran 100 yards. I also used a 300Win/180grNPs two shots/hits...dead right there. I'd advise eastern deer hunters to use the biggest gun they can shoot ACCURATELY , with Nosler NPs...and NEVER assume ya missed because the elk didn't react like a whitetail would to a hit. my two cents and worth what ya paid for it. Birmingham, Al | |||
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Elk are extremely tough, I've always said they are tougher than moose. One guy said that some peoples hunting/shooting skills may not be up to par, well, going to a bigger caliber isn't going to help things, its going to make it worse. Use what you can shoot well, hopefully bigger than smaller but the big guns really only buy you extra distance. Good bullets & good penetration is the key on elk or any other animal, there's no magic to killing them. I've taken 25 elk since 1970, the first 6 were with a custom 270 & 130 gr Hornady slugs, after that I used 30/06's, one 7 mag, a couple with a 257 Ackley & one with the 7X57, again, use good bullets. There was an article in Handloader a few years ago by Dave Scovill that showed the number of moose taken in one of the Scandinavian countries with several different calibers, it also showed the number of shots fired & the distance the moose traveled after the shot. There were thousands of moose taken in the survey. The 6X55 Swede was right at the top, some of the big guns were quite low on the list, the reason being, the shooter was over gunned. Placement, placement, placement! Dick | |||
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14 elk shooting a 270 Win, with 150g Partitions at 3000 fps. Distances ranged from 15 to 400 plus yards, no real long range shots. None went further than 30 yards. All one shot kills. If you gut shoot them or shoot them in the butt, it will probably take a much larger caliber to anchor them. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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As if us out of state hunters don't actually have jobs and limited time as well? I tend to use a larger caliber for the exact reason listed above in that I want to be able to take any reasonable shot from whatever angle is offered to me. | |||
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Maybe I am a little different than most but I have never wanted to kill an elk bad enough to shoot it in the ass. Too much good eating meat there. 465H&H | |||
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Agree, nothing wrong with hunting elk with a 375 H&H or a 500 Jeffery for that matter (that's what I may be doing lol). I knew someone from Seely Lake Montana at charity barbeque where we could "shoot the Buick" for a dollar. It was a big money maker shooting that 1955 Buick on blocks. He had a pre-64 375 H&H that his father gave him and used it to hunt deer and elk. He let me shoot it, and I was impressed. I asked him if it was a bit much for deer and he said: "They don't get up". I just disagree with the thought that it's needed. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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The one piece of advice the outfitter I have hunted elk with in western Colorado gave me that has stayed with me, is that when hunting elk, as long as that sucker is on its feet, keep hitting it till it goes down. That may be one of the more insidious sidfes of the elk hunting issue, especially for first timers, and that deals with shooting an animal that is already hit, again. Elk are tough animals and for folks used to hunting whitetails it can be a whole different ball game. I just prefer to see folks use guns they are familiar with. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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If you guys think elk are tough you need to try a Mtn. goat! 465H&H | |||
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I suppose it matters if you are a trophy hunter with the meat as a side benefit or a meat hunter and don't care at all about the trophy. For me, the meat is the secondary benefit and I usually give a large portion of it away. Here in Texas, you can donate venison to the Hunters for the Hungry program. The hunter pays a flat fee to process the animal, and the meat goes to the local food bank. I usually donate at least half of the meat I shoot every year. So, if I've worked my ass off, climbing mountains as a flat-lander Texan, and I happen to get a chance at an exceptional bull but the only shot is a severe quartering shot to the vitals ... yea, you and I must be different Walt because I'm taking that shot if properly outfitted with a premium bullet like the TSX and an adequate rifle capable of driving that bullet to the vitals. For me, that starts at 300 Mag of whatever variety. But for the OP, options would be to go with the 7x57 and be damn picky about what shots he takes or add a break to his 338WM. Even better, what a great excuse for a new rifle, say a 300 WBY with a muzzle break. I've got a buddy who's 14 year old son, at the time, wanted something larger than his 243. I suggested a 300 WBY with break since the father already had a 300 WBY and I was loading all their ammo for them. We got the gun and I tested it first. I was really surprised how tame that rifle was being breaked. Seems to me that for a fellow who has medical issues restricting him from shooting a hard recoiling rifle, but still wants to hunt large / tough animals, this set up would be ideal. | |||
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Todd, I am not sure how you define a severe quartering shot. If you mean in front of the rear leg and into the vitals through the stomach area, I might take that shot if no other is possible. I do hate cleaning stomach contents out of the abdominal cavity though. I did have to take that shot once on a wounded cape buffalo that had gored local villager in Zim. The 550 grain Woodleigh from a Lott made it all the way through the stomach, liver, left lung , rib cage, left shoulder and was found under the hide on the shoulder. I doubt any other Premium bullet would have done any better. 465H&H | |||
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I've only got a cow tag, big difference between a cow and a 350 rutting bull, but it's still an elk. I'm not going to use a muzzle brake as my ears ring constantly now from 55 years as an avid shooter and hunter. I mail ordered a HS Precision stock for my 7mm Rem. mag. and borrowed bottom metal from another Rem. 700. It's shooting MOA out to 200 yards, haven't shot any farther yet since it's been in the new stock but I will. Load is 160 gr. Nosler Accubond at a little over 3,000 fps. I doubled a bath towel to simulate winter clothing and noticeable recoil with the 7 mag. wasn't any worse than my 7x57 is when wearing just a t- shirt. I just can't bring myself to elk hunt with my 7x57. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate and respect your opinions. Even though I load my 7x57 to modern pressures, the 20" bbl. limits it's velocity and range. I think the recoil of the 7 mag. will be fine when I'm wearing a heavy coat. I don't want to buy a new rifle for this one hunt and don't want to stay at home either. Your posts have given me much more confidence in my 7 mag. than I would have had before. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I think your 7x57 would work nicely. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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+1 A lot of the Montana locals used them with plain old 175g CoreLokts and brought home their elk every year. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Swampshooter - If it isn't gonna bang you up that 7 RM will work well. Get your mind off the gun now, shoot it plenty, but make it your "go to" for a bit and get some exersize. Your hunt will be pleasant and your gun familiar. | |||
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Context matters. It matters alot. If this were a deer rifle thread I would have no problem stating that the .22-250 is a great deer rifle around here. A .22-250 is not what I would take on a time-limited, pricey hunt around here. Not ever. When I've gone away for elk, moose, deer I've been happy to have a .300 in my hands. Sometimes it has comforted me, sometimes it has seemed superflous. Twice it definitely helped. If I lived in elk country, could pick and choose what nice weather days I go out, would never be looking at a "end of last day of my hunt and there's this elk 400 yds quartering" scenarios (see preceding paragraph) I'd be perfectly happy with a .270, 7X57.....maybe even a .25-06 with 120s. Sam | |||
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+1 on that Nate, that's what I fully intend to do. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I skimmed through this thread quickly, but I am struck by the lack of two things: 1. Almost no one mentions how many elk they have killed (easy to say "xyz" will work if you have killed an elk or two), to say nothing of the number of six by's 2. Almost no mention of the bullet. Seems Chuck 375 addressed both... | |||
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Elk can certainly be killed with smaller calibers, but in my opinion it makes sense to use a minimum of .30 caliber and the heaviest premium bullets that shoot well from your rifle. I hunt some nasty terrain and I want my elk dead in their in tracks. I shoot a .300 RUM and use 200grn TSX bullets. The last 5 bulls I have killed have traveled a sum total of 20 feet. I'm a big believer in the high shoulder shot. ______________________ I don't shoot elk at 600 yards for the same reasons I don't shoot ducks on the water, or turkeys from their roosts. If this confuses you then you're not welcome in my hunting camp. | |||
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I can't believe this thread is still treading water Not an elk but I recoverd a 130 grn Accubond from the last inch of the hind quarter of the antelope buck I killed Sunday from a frontal shot Thats nearly 3 feet deep from my .270 at 2950 Not the best elk rifle in the world no but it'll do....especialy if you shoot it good Placement is still the key....bullet construction and a big .30 will help with bone but gut shot or to low is bad with all of them ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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AZ writer, I thought I gave a pretty good description of the calibers I've used over the years. I've also taken 11 with revolvers, 2 with the 41 maggie, 5 with the 44 maggie & 4 with a Ruger 45 Colt, all but one with cast slugs. There is no such thing as a miniumim or maximum gun/caliber, its bullet placement & penetration, can anyone tell me something that is more important, I'd like to hear it. Dick | |||
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Sorry, I skimmed it quickly. But thanks for clarifying. You certainly have the resume and consequently credibility, at least IMO. | |||
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