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Due to heart surgery, taking blood thinners, etc. my Dr. has told me not to shoot my .338 elk rifle without ample padding. I've decided "ample padding" is a deal breaker. What suggestions do some of you have for an adequate but lighter recoil cartridge and bullet. I currently own a very nice 7x57 with 20" barrel, but it seems inadequate to me. I'm afraid to use it. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | ||
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30/06 with 180NPs... 270Win with 150NPs.... 7mmRM with 150/160NPs.... Birmingham, Al | |||
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With the availability of premium bullets, much smaller diameter calibers can and have been used very successfully. I know Elmer Keith is rolling over in his grave and Jack O'Conner is jumping for joy but it's a fact. Me, I've got two elk hunts coming up. One next week and the Montana hunt on 20 Oct. I'll be using my 6.5x47 Lapua with the new 127 gr Barnes LRX @ 2800 fps. Other than that......  Alan  | |||
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Your 7x57 will be fine. Find whatever 150-160 grain bullet shoots good in your rifle and go hunting. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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With premium bullets today one could probably make a solid case for the .243 and .25-06. Personally I'd think a .260 Rem or 7mm-08 will get the jobd done pretty well with the 6.5 being the minimum caliber I'd use. I have a fondness for the .270 as well for elk. | |||
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While I am not a fan of any of these myself, I have seen quite a few elk taken with them and they have been doing so for quite a while. .270 - .308 & 30-06. A 150 grain bullet out of the .270, or a 150/165/180 grain bullet out of the .308 or '06 are plenty adequate for lots of folks. Best of luck on your hunt.  Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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7mm-.08 Chuck | |||
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There wouldn't be a problem with the 7x57. That said, depending on your abilities, the minimum is whatever's legal. I would be a little more carefull but would use my .257 Roberts if it's what I had. My .25-06 with several of the heavier bullets would be fine. One of my favorites is the Hornady 120gr HP. Not a shoulder shooter, but holding off the bones it works. The 115 or 120 NP, or something similar and you'd be in business without the abuse of bigger calibers. Stock fit, a good recoil pad, a bit heavier rifle, and a milder cartridge and you should be able to continue to enjoy whatever hunting you want. | |||
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i'll throw in the 280 and 6.5-06 and the 6.5x55/57 blaming guns for crime is like blaming silverware for rosie o'donnell being fat | |||
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That 7X57 with reloads with a Barnes TSX will give all the penetration needed. Get a jell pad as a recoil reducer, but with warm clothing on should not be a problem. 0 to 200yds punch him in the middle of the ribs case closed. Mike | |||
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Nothing below a .30 calibur for serious elk hunting!! When I was guiding/outfitting, for 10 years, my rule was .30 cal and up. No exceptions. Not that you can't kill elk with less, but seen toooooo many things go South with wimpy cartridges. Elk are big, tough critters who don't always present the classic broadside shot, sometimes require cross canyon shots at 200 yds or more. With todays selection of recoil reduction devices, really good pads, muzzlebreaks, mecury type stock implants, etc. no real reason to sucumb to the "little bitty bullets" theory for elk hunting. And lastly the Rocky Mountain Elk deserve better than a .243 or 25-06 (surely you jest, or have never elk hunted), when you suggest these??? Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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Although I use a larger caliber, my dad has alway used his trusty old 270 for elk for as long as I can remember. So, I'd think your 7x57 would be just fine. Good luck and hope to see some pictures in the coming weeks!!! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I agree with Larry to a point. 30 cal is better for elk but I would not hesitate to guide you with your 7x57 as long as you were using heavy bullets (160gr or more) and you weren't shooting barnex bullets. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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I think I would get a 300 of some variation with a muzzle break. I'm not a fan of MB's at all but in your case, it is certainly warranted. Load it up with 180gr Barnes TTSX and you'll be good to go! Good luck with the Elk hunt and your continued good health. | |||
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Use a good bullet and you'll be fine. We were getting exits on Bull camels in Aus last month with 175 grain woodleighs. Didn't notice much difference in the 7x57 or the 300 mag on those beasts, needed to step up to .35 RM/Sambar levels to see much of a difference at all really. Does she shoot sweetly? | |||
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Use a good bullet, i.e. Barnes, Nosler PT or Accubond etc, stick it in the right place, and the 7x57 will do fine. | |||
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If you use good bullets and don't expect to shoot over 300 yards, your 7x57 will get the job done just fine. If it's a modern rifle (not an old M95 Mauser) you can get performance thats in between 7mm-08 and .280 Rem levels with handloads. IMO, you're not going to get much of an improvement in killing power over the 7x57 without moving up to something that kicks just about as hard as your .338. | |||
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I'd consider downloading the 338 with 210 grain Partitions or something like that. | |||
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Never used the 7x57 on elk, but have killed afew with a .280 Remington, and a lot with other calibers. While not my first choice, I would use a 7x57 for elk if I already owned one. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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1. Load the 338 down to 33 Winchester levels and get closer. 2. Get a past recoil shield to reduce the impact. 3. Get a 308 or 7-08 and go kill an elk. 4. Get one of the hand rifles and shoot an elk DEAD. Don't limit your challenges . . . Challenge your limits | |||
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There are tens of thousands of dead elk who disagree with you. A 270 shooting 150g Partitions, TSX's or A-Frames drops them like lightning if you hit them right. Don't shoot at ranges you can't hit at, and avoid Texas heart shots. My first five elk dropped to a 243 shooting 105g Speer spitzers, then in 1968 I stepped up to a cannon, a BDL in 270 ...  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I sure wish we would have known the above before one of the outfitter I have been huunting with since 1992, hunters put a 5x5 bull down at a little over 500 yards with a .270 and a 150 grain bullet. I guess when we got to the bull to gut it, we should have told it, it wasn't dead.  Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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The responses are all over the board here. For me, I would use that 7x57 you already have and you are use to shooting, find a nice 175 gr. bullet in either a NP, TTSX, or similar, and re-zero your scope, and never look back. The 7x57 was designed to use 175 gr bullets originally. If your rifle doesn't shoot the 175's well due to barrel twist, then I'd try 160 's in a good bullet, probably TTSX. Add a little "cheat pad" under your shirt and you'll be fine. There are no flies on the 7x57. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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I can tell you first hand that the 7mm-08 with a 140gr Partition absolutely works on elk. While I would be hesitant to shoot out past 300yds with one, I used it to bag my Colorado 5x5 "though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." ---Thomas Jefferson | |||
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A 160gr bullet in a 7mm anything seems to have just terrific impact on game. Must be the sectional density, and good BC, but they are magical. | |||
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You hit your elk right and they are dead. They may not know it and might walk off but any bullet through the heart / lungs and no animal on the planet survives it. I've seen elk shot with big boomers that acted like they weren't the least disturbed only to die and I've seen them killed with small rifles. Elk are very seldom swept off their feet so to speak. I would use my .257 Roberts and 117 grain bullets anytime for elk. My sons first Bull was killed with a .284 shooting reduced loads and 130 grain bullets. Good shots make dead animals. Big "serious" elk rifles poorly shot make for a long track job. | |||
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I love the 338wm for elk and other big stuff. Minimum I would use would be a 30-06. That said, the 7x57 will work fine. Just not at the distance the 338 will. | |||
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I have killed 4 elk, 3 mule deer, kudu and wildebeast with a .280 Rem shooting 140gr NP bullets. A .270 or .280 is an easy one to shoot with little recoil. | |||
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I killed an nice 4x4 elk with my 7x57 loaded with 160gr TSX's. He was walking towards me at about 120 yards so I shot him center of his chest. He ran 20 yards and piled up dead. Perry | |||
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i use my 7x65R FOR 20 YEARS NOW WITH NO PROBLEM | |||
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And as Alan noted, J O'C used the 7 x 57 extensively, and it was Eleanor's go-to rifle for N.A.; he writes about her killing a few elk with it. For myself, I'd have no qualms pushing a partition out of that 57, even out to 300 yards. Enjoy your hunt! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Those who say it's where you hit them that counts are right to a point. Having guided many hunters however that isn't the norm, (their skills). Most have marginal shooting and hunting skills and need every advantage they can get. One guy even wanted me to shoot his elk for him.  My thought is if a hunter is sooooo undergunned he must have some reason???? for not shooting an adequate round. It my be physical as in the case above, but most likely it's another reason. Tooooo cheap to buy an "elk rifle", afraid of the recoil of a .30 cal and above, all things that lead me to be wary. FWIW a lot of "smaller" cal guns kick a lot harder than some of the bigger cartridges as in smaller caliburs usually result in lighter rifles. My 5 1/2 pound HS Precision in .270 WSM bangs me a lot harder than my .375 H & H does.Only a couple of guys who didn't like my 30 cal rule didn't follow along and book a hunt. I set those folks up with another outfitter and everyone lived happily everafter??? (I think).  Larry Sellers SCI Life Member Elk Adventures Unlimited Guide and Outfitter (Retired) | |||
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Larry is very "matter of fact" in his opinion here, but I would say in a more polite way - that I totally agree Larry! I've long since lost count of the number of bull elk I've guided, and I've shot plenty of big bulls myself as well. I've never seen a tougher animal anywhere in N.A., never! I've also never LOST more clients animals - of any other species, after being shot either. They can truly be amazingly tough, and some of the country they live in - extremely difficult as well. In some cases, chasing/persuing a wounded elk very far, can be all but impossible! The issue always seems to be what you "can" or "have" killed an elk with, versus what's a logical choice. Certainly a .243 can/will kill an elk, but really? Not a very logical choice, IMO! An African Lion is slighter in stature than a big bull elk, by a fair bit actually - but the thought of shooting a Lion with a .243 or a .25-06, would never cross my mind - how about you? Just as hunting an elk with either of these rounds would never cross my mind either. Bare bones minimum in my opinion, the .270 - but I definitely prefer the .300's. Hunting in the field can/will offer many difficulties. Shoot an elk with the largest cartridge you are comfortable with, if not, some day you will regret it. JMO. | |||
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Aaron, you forgot to add your hunting motto...if you can't shoot straight, get a 600 NE :-) | |||
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Yes, that's true! If the .600 was a logical choice for elk, I'm sure I would use it. | |||
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Although most of us don't like muzzle brakes, how about a brake on your 338? With your health concerns, sounds like a reasonable alternative. Also how about trying a lighter bullet in your 338? | |||
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Yes, a brake and a 180 Barnes should lighten it up, for sure. | |||
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I probably should have explained that I am a meat hunter. I don't have room for any more antlers on my trophy room wall anyway. I'm going to shoot a cow and will be able to pass on a shot which presents a poor angle. I have a 7mm Rem. mag also but it is currently in need of a gunsmith and I doubt if I can get it ready in time to hunt this year. I also have a 300 Mashburn mag. but it also kicks too much for this years hunt. I've tried reduced loads with lighter bullets in the 300 and 338, but they still kick too much for this year. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I am a .30 cal guy......but the 7x57 with 173 grain premium bullets will kill and has killed anything on the planet. I would not have a problem going forward with that choice except I inherited a bunch of .30 cal guns (sentimental attachments) and I hate owning redundant calibres. | |||
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Swampshooter added a very important clarification. Cow elk, spikes, and small raghorn bulls are in an entirely different class than a big, mature 350+" bull. These fired up, big bulls typically take a lot more killing, and few hunters are willing to pass on shots at such a trophy from a poor angle. The 7x57 will do just fine on a cow from a proper angle. I've killed a number with a 270 win and 308 using Nosler partitions. With no physical limitations, I routinely step up to a 30 caliber for better performance. I don't think of the 7x57 as particularly effective beyond 300 yards on an elk size animal, but it will even do the job at long range if you know your trajectory. Use quality bullets like Barnes TTSX and Nolser partition, in the 150-160 grain range, and your cow elk will die very nicely. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 7x57 if willing to pick your shots and pass the acute angle and Texas heartshots. Bill | |||
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