None of us prefer to make those long range shots, but Idaho hit it on the mark. Being up here in the near great white north it is not uncommon to see those 500+ yard shots. Proper eqipment and training certainly takes out alot of the guess work.

I shot an elk once at 618 yards once in MN.

The Cabelas store was getting ready to open and the animals were being moved in. My cousins bet me I couldn't/wouldn't shoot an animal on the sidewalk. The closest/furthest hill was ~6oo yards away. I couldn't be too close or I'd get caught and I couldn't be too far to attempt it. Everyone was amazed when we walked in the store opening day and found the hole in the elk!

Did it with a 300 whisper in a ten inch Contender off my shoe on a case of Budweiser. I only made $34 off the shot- the guys have been bitten too many times by my shootin to bet the big money.

(We knew the distance, 618 yards, when a salesman let us "try out" a range finder in the sunlight.)

I, reading some of these posts, notice that the HUMBLE! part in web code IMHO is laying in the ditch gagging. You better get Mommy in before your heads blow clean off. IMHO "long range shooters" are either boneheads or if they really do try these stunts they write about on game animals are assholes.

I haven't noticed many highpower silhouette shooters write about attempting curve of the earth hunting shots. THey shoot 500 yard/meters STANDING. Lets hear them talk about thier comfort in 500 yard shots on big game.

Idaho Shooter!

most of your last post was very reasonable. I wonder about two points you made though. The average shooter in your area is capable of making 400 - 450 yd shots? Go out to your local rifle range and watch the average hunter sighting in before opening day. Most are not capable of hiting a deer off hand at 100 yds. Also what do you do with your 12X scope when you jump a deer at 50 yds?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by nelsonted1:
I, reading some of these posts, notice that the HUMBLE! part in web code IMHO is laying in the ditch gagging.

IMHO can also mean: In My HONEST Opinion...

I have made clean one shot kills out to 450yds. But that was an exception. I limit my shots to 300 yrds.Although most are inside 200 yrds.

465H&H,

You make a good point. I should have written "the average of the hunters which I hang out with".

I really doubt that their level of dedication to the shooting sports is typical of the average Idaho hunting license purchaser.

I might make a point here though, in my case anyway, a deer has a much greater chance at survival if I am shooting at him offhand at 100 yds than if I am shooting at him from 400 yds from the prone position with the use of a Harris bipod.

We often carry our variables at 4X just in case we get one of those close shots you mentioned. But on three seperate occasions I have killed mule deer at ranges inside of fifty yards and when I thought to check the scope after dressing the deer, it was on 12X. Only on one of these shots did I have any problem. It was barely legal shooting hours in the morning of an overcast day and I encountered a four point mulie face to face as I was crossing through an aspen thicket on my horse. The deer jumped forward twice as I dismounted my horse and chambered a round in my bolt action 06. Those two hops moved him from due North of my position to due East. This deer was very close!
When I mounted the rifle to my shoulder, I could not make out a target. I peeked around the scope, yep the deer is still right there. So I sighted on an antler tip, and followed it down until I saw hair and shot him in the second vertabra behind his skull. It was a short six steps from the side of my horse to the position of this dead deer. Yes we often encounter deer that seem to be almost tame, on opening day anyway.

The problem was not the field of view, but the light gathering ability of the scope and the exit pupil under this twilight condition.

It takes a lot of training for a scope to actually be pointing at your target when you mount the rifle to your shoulder. I was fortunate that I grew up on a farm and later worked on cattle ranches for a couple of summers. I often had to walk a mile or more to move irragation water several times a day. I usually carried my rifle on the shoulder sling as I made these walks and repeatedly picked out targets and snapped the rifle to firing position and dry fired it. Thus I was able to squeeze in a couple hours of rifle practice almost every day, seven days a week, for several weeks a summer, for several summers. These practice sessions also often involved live fire. There were many troublesome critters which needed killin on the farm or ranch. I usually budgeted for about 400 rounds of ammo for the game rifles each month during the summer. This practice was very beneficial to my snap shooting ability.

quote:

It takes a lot of training for a scope to actually be pointing at your target when you mount the rifle to your shoulder.

Very True, Alot of guys skwalk about high power scopes just because they can't quickly aquire a target at close range while the scope is set at a High X setting but, w/ years of practice it is very easy to aquire close targets regardless of the setting. When I shoulder my rifle, then animal is almost always in the scope regardless of the power setting. It's no different than "snap shooting" a scatter gun while out wing shooting. Now, I'm not talking about "snap shooting" a rifle but, just aquiring the animal in the scope is the same as wing shooting, it's just a natural act after it's been done enough.

Reloader

400 - 450yards will get me in the ball park reasonably well. This is for deer however. Hogs are another story.

Rancher says" if you see them shoot them or at them wether you hit them or not. Or you might not come back. Makes perfect practice out across the 800 acre cotton field. With the 7mag or the 25/06, on a bi-pod, I have no probelms practicing long range work. They seem to squeel a lot mor when you hit them that far out.

Either way about 600 has been our furtherest hits on the hogs. This was done off the front of the home made land cruiser we use to get around on the farm. Makes for a nice flat platform to get all comfy on before slowly squeezing off on something.

Hopefully by the end of next year I will be reaching out much further than this with a better connect rate.

....."Get all comfy on before slowly squeezing off on..." Squeezing off on what? Reality?

Good grief

quote:

Originally posted by Mke / Tx:
400 - 450yards will get me in the ball park reasonably well. This is for deer however. Hogs are another story.

Rancher says" if you see them shoot them or at them wether you hit them or not. Or you might not come back. Makes perfect practice out across the 800 acre cotton field. With the 7mag or the 25/06, on a bi-pod, I have no probelms practicing long range work. They seem to squeel a lot mor when you hit them that far out.

Either way about 600 has been our furtherest hits on the hogs. This was done off the front of the home made land cruiser we use to get around on the farm. Makes for a nice flat platform to get all comfy on before slowly squeezing off on something.

Hopefully by the end of next year I will be reaching out much further than this with a better connect rate.

I think that was your cousin squealing

I have observed that a lot of guys seem to think that if they have the equipment and get zeroed in @ 100 yds, that taking their 100 yd practice and farmilarizing themselves with some ballistic charts are all they need to be able to shoot out to where ever they feel their equipment is good out to. Lots of whizbangers at the 100 yd range all the time.

I would suggest that most people should limit themselves to the approximate distance that they practice at, and the farther the distance the more they should practice.

I sight in first @ 100 yds, then 200 and then practice @ 300. Although Ive never needed to shoot quite that far.

Wstrnhunter
Good point. You have to know your limits and stay within them.
I try to limit myself to 85% of the range I'm 95% confidant I'll place the 1st round within 3" of my desired impact point, under the conditions I'm presented with at the time of the shot. Since I do my field practicing at 500yd, I feel confidant shooting game at ranges under 440yd under the same conditions.
You will find that those who truly hunt long range also practice at long range, it's the bubba's that don't practice, at any range, that give the entire sport a bad name.

I get jumped on when I bring this up on long range hunting threads but I'm going to again.

What happens when one shoots at animal at 400, 600 or 1600 yards when it takes a step and you've managed to gut-shoot it? ALl of a sudden you have to go from here to there, 400, 600 or 1600 yards and pick up a track. Or do some of the long range shooters just consider a cripple a cost of doing business. Like Mke / Tx saying pigs squeal more when they get shot further out. Animal rights people would have a field day with crap like what is written here.

I'd like to get some of you shooters on a little experiment. I'd drop a drip or so of red paint every so often simulating a blood track and then stand you 500 yards away and say "look that way, go about 500 yards and look for a drip or two of red paint and follow a 'blood track' I've laid down. I laid a brown shirt 75 yards down the trail to simulate a dead deer. Now, go find it." Good luck. A hunter would try it. A shooter would say "Are you crazy?" and laugh.

I think some "long-range-shooters" are wanna-be snipers that flex their muscles over their beer guts.

quote:

Originally posted by Mke / Tx:


Hopefully by the end of next year I will be reaching out much further than this with a better connect rate.

Notice Mke/Tx doesn't write "kill rate"? He doesn't seem to give a damn if his targets suffer! A long range shooter, certainly not a hunter!

quote:

Originally posted by nelsonted1:

What happens when one shoots at animal at 400, 600 or 1600 yards when it takes a step and you've managed to gut-shoot it?

Same thing that happens when you shoot at one that's 40, 60 or 160 yards away.

It's easier to find the blood track 100 yards away than 1/4 mile away or am I missing something?

quote:

Originally posted by nelsonted1:
It's easier to find the blood track 100 yards away than 1/4 mile away or am I missing something?

To say nothing of judging trophy quality...

I practiced some long range shooting last week when I was on our Colorado property. I was shooting 700 yards away on a ridge in semi-open (pine, scrub oak).

When I went to find my target (a cardboard box), it took me quite some time. I finally did find it, way to the left of where I thought it was.

The same thing often happens in the Arizona desert, only just seeing the target at that range is very difficult.

I have posted on this subject before. I don't have a problem with anyone shooting at any range they can hit. Unfortunately, many LR hunters don't practice at the range they hunt, or if they do, it is on one rifle range, where after you learn the conditions, you tend to do much better than on the happy grounds.

I put a challenge out to some LR hunters to see just how far they could hit, etc. I was even going to pay for the trip. None accepted.

It is possible to do some long range shooting, but the guys who think they can shoot at distances a 1mph wind blows their bullets 5 inches are full of it.

The farthest I have ever shot (or attempted to shoot) an animal is an antelope at 455 yards before the days of laser rangefinders. Shot it sitting with a bipod. I used a stadia wire and a Ranging 1000 and averaged the two. The lack of bullet energy was noticeable. Hit it twice. But a wildebeeste I shot at 310 yards standing off the shooting sticks was a better shot, IMO.

Show me a guy who can hit animals sitting with a sling out to 500 yards, and I will show you a guy who has more trophies than a guy who can whack things off a bench at 800 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
I have observed that a lot of guys seem to think that if they have the equipment and get zeroed in @ 100 yds, that taking their 100 yd practice and farmilarizing themselves with some ballistic charts are all they need to be able to shoot out to where ever they feel their equipment is good out to.

And it's very unfortunate. I've advocated here and elswhere for years until I was blue in the face one should practice at ranges farther than he plans to take a big game animal--whatever distance that may be. It only makes sense.

But unfortunately the vast majority of HUNTERS never spend any significant amount of time with their hunting rifles practicing beyond 100 yds but many feel they can make 200, 300, 400yd, etc shots just fine. Anybody who practices the above certainly isn't a Long Range Hunter by any stretch of the imagination although he may be called such by those who don't like Long Range Hunters in an effort to make them look bad.

As far as "blood trails" go.... Every time I've ever had difficulty finding the animal (takes more than a minute or two) has been at close range in thick brush where a 20yd "death sprint" is far enough to make an animal flat disappear. On all my longer shots the animal has been out in the open with nowhere to hide (obviously, or I could have gotten closer). Bang, there he is. Walk right up to him.

I'll also say anybody who says he can hit within 5" of his intention at 100 yds on a running target offhand every time is full of shit. I'd like to see somebody who could pass the "clay pigeon test" on targets moving at random velocities and at random angles from even 50 or 75 yds. But that's OK, since the range is short they're held to a different standard.

Being a realist, I'll take a 4-500 yd shot from a steady rest under good conditions on a stationary animal any day over a close range running shot. Because I know I can make the hit--on a running shot I don't know. That's the "Hail Mary" if you ask me.

Of course that means brush hunters who go through 1/2 box of ammo shooting at tails every season will give me a load of shit for my single shot simply because of the distance. Oh well, ignorance is bliss sometimes.

quote:

Being a realist, I'll take a 4-500 yd shot from a steady rest under good conditions on a stationary animal any day over a close range running shot. Because I know I can make the hit--on a running shot I don't know. That's the "Hail Mary" if you ask me.

I agree with your sentiment in broad terms but have mixed emotions about the last part of the quote above. A rested shot at long range is certainly less problematic than a running shot and I'd be the first to suggest that running shots are likely to fail when taken by those without experience. In over 40 years afield I've taken few shots on running BIG game, untold thousands on birds and small game. I don't know at what point a person has the skill to successfully execute a snap shot on big game but I have yet to miss one. I have missed shots on standing big game on three occasions, 2 due to unseen branches/twig that deflected bullets in twilight conditions, one due to an ill advised attempt at a head shot on a deer. It bobbed, I didn't. Two pierced ears, no joke.
The running shots have all been within 40 yards, one deer, a half dozen or so hogs, a couple of wild dogs and a 'yote that was trottin' right along. The deer, several of the hogs, and one dog were in the 'ears-laid-back' mode and all were hit where I intended, most shot with a Model 94 Winchester. The others fell to shotguns with forster slugs. All dead with a single shot. With the exception of the deer I cared not about the outcome, as all the other critters came under the heading of pest control. I do recognize that in some areas hogs are sought after, down here they are a damn nuisance and I'll take a chance on a missed shot before I'll pass on the shot. That said, I would not take such a shot on deer etc. at multiples of 100 yards without a lot of practice with a specific rifle, but I've seen enough videos of folks shootin' yotes on the fly to realize it isn't an insurmountable proposition. Practice is key...if you can arrange it.

Anyway, this is getting to be a very long thread, almost need a bipod to get a steady bead from one end to another.

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:
Practice is key...if you can arrange it.

Anyway, this is getting to be a very long thread, almost need a bipod to get a steady bead from one end to another.

Amen

I'm going to mention my closest miss. It was with a .45 ACP Colt Model 80 stainless government. I was in a tree stand, I missed at 30 yards, from a rest at midday. I hadn't picked up this pistol is months. I was full of p and v because I'd shot a deer the weekend before with a 6" S&S 44 Magnum at twice the distance. My point. Use the gun and load before the hunt and amazing success is yours, or don't practice and awful failure can be yours. I've shot 500 yards with iron sights when young, but the target was paper and I was prone. Now, I don't shoot anything beyond 200 yards at grass eaters. Black bear at 40 yards with 2.5 Weaver on 9.3x62 CZ and mountain lion at 6 feet with .45 Colt on Ruger Redhawk. Couldn't get a shot at proper heart-lung position and guide had to finish cat for me, standing on two rocks looking down at cat, with .45 ACP Ruger P90. I don't believe he'd fired it before and the ammo was what ever was cheapest. This is one case agility and coolness counted more than practice and middle age.