We went hog hunting this morning. Everything is wet and Mosquitos are everywhere . We used Thermacells.

My brother fired his up at the truck and walked in to his stand. Twice he stopped and laid the Thermacells down while doing whatever. He climbed up a tripod stand and waited for the hogs to show.

At some point, he noticed a cottonmouth come out of the bushes. The snake followed the exact path that Pete walked . The snake appeared to be searching for something at both places that Pete laid the Thermacells down. Then, the snake made a beeline to the stand and started crawling up the stand towards Pete. Pete bailed out of the stand.

I have 2 questions as follows:
1- have you ever seen this before?
2- do you think the snake was sensing the heat off of the Thermacells?

I have not heard of this; however, your heat theory seems right on. I believe snakes in the pit viper family have heat sensors located in tiny "pits" next to their eyes...

I would imagine he was going for the heat radiated by both the Thermacell and then your buddy!

Been a long time since I've seen a cottonmouth climb a tree or hunting very far from water. In fact, I never have. Talented snakes you have in FL.

There are swamps all over. Plenty of water everywhere.

Wasbeeman:

I'm just guessing that you've never spent a summer day in a canoe or jon boat paddling down one of our tree-canopied black water streams. I can't count the number of times I've had a cottonmouth drop off a branch near my boat (maybe three time INTO it!). It'll get your attention.

As to the smell/heat of the cell.... I use one 80 to 100 times a year in our swamps and never have had a snake incident attributable to a Thermacell.

That said, even if the heat or odor attracts snakes, it's better than the life-threatening hordes of mosquitoes that show up on radar.

+1.

The snake was not climbing a tree. It was on the rungs of a tripod stand.

The other interesting this is that Pete threw an old piece of burlap at the snake. The snake went to that as well.

A 5'5" rattler was killed the day before. All this water is pushing them to high ground.

Starting out being raised around Dismal Swamp, I've wasted around in as much low land, swamps, creeks, and rivers as probably anyone in this room. You may have one slither up a sharply leaning tree that is in the water (and I've only seen that one time) but you ain't gonna have one climbing a tree. Nor are you going to have one crawling into a tree stand, I don't care if you have an elevator. Most folks don't know the difference between a common water snake and a boa constrictor. How did you determine that it was a cottonmouth? Oh, I see, it didn't have a red head, nor rattles, ergo, it was a cottonmouth.

I forgot. I didn't get born on the border of Georgia and Florida 66 years ago, never spent a day outside (even yesterday in Tower Swamp on the Satilla River), don't know that Larry has more acreage leased than Switzerland down here where Winslow Homer painted black water hammocks, that my neighbor's cat wasn't chewed up by an alligator on Monday evening (various and sundry reptiles) and that Mr. No Shoulders (both with the rattles and without) is someone with whom you share the woods (and don't I mean he's just an occasional player in your outside activities).

Oh, Yeah! my host yesterday (who, along with his family) own 30K acres of pines, oak hammocks and swamp never killed a cottonmouth appearing out of a tree, either.... or maybe he doesn't know one snake from another like Larry and I don't. Heck, I was standing there helping him put up a climbing tree stand. Wish I had an Iphone camera to prove neither of us knew what we saw come down the trunk and scare the piss out of us.

I'll defer to your obvious wisdom wasbeeman and never again believe that it was a cottonmouth that fell in my canoe and just reach down and toss it out with my bare hands, instead of bashing the s.o.b. over the head with a paddle (or vacating the canoe like last time).



Crap, and I thought I knew everything. I guess there's always someone who has done a better job of living in my (or Larry's) shoes, though.

Tonight, I think I'll just have to ask the four raccoons that eat supper on my back porch with the cats every night what they think. Do they (perhaps, not so pleasantly) share a hollow tree ever with a cottonmouth? Maybe they don't know the difference in snakes either. Alas!

That was funny!

I got in arguments with cottonmouths, twice, over possession of johnboats.

When I arrived in the morning at the reservoir to go duck hunting (in December, yes, December) the first thing is to turn over the boat and shove it in the water. But, there was perched on top of it (the bottom) old Mr. No Shoulders. Sunning himself. Some nerve.

So, I waved a branch at him, and he ignored it. I then tapped the aluminum bottom in front of him and he vigorously objected. Did the whole noise making thing from both ends. So we just looked at each other with me wondering, what next. I was burning daylight and wanted to go hunting.

So I tapped the boat again near him and he/she hissed some more. But this time it relented and slithered on off the boat.

The same thing happened another time too, and on that one I finally got enough. After it left the premises, I loaded one barrel of the 12 ga 3" I call the "Masterblaster" and made that snake part of the mud bank. That was my idea of an eviction notice.

But cottonmouths have no trouble climbing the sides of aluminum duck boats. Trees though is something I'll leave for you guys to debate. I've never personally seen one in a tree, having spent 6 decades in and around prime Mid-South cottonmouth country. But, I HAVE heard other local outdoors people tell these stories of snakes dropping into their boats from trees. Usually cypress trees and always when fishing at night. These are folks whose word I'd tend to take. Do I doubt 'um? I wouldn't say that.

Btw, recently I almost stepped on a 4 footer. Fat and brown. And clearly a cottonmouth. And more noise from both its ends. Didn't have a gun, but gave it a good spanking with a stick. When it left it was incredibly fast and it slithered quickly not under or through, but over the TOPS of several bushes. Honestly I don't know how they even do that.

Anyway, I did also once have a big largemouth bass at night JUMP out of the water into the boat, but that's a different story. And it was with good reason. You see, there was some midnight partying going on out on the lake with a lot of loud behavior and paddles slapping the water...well, you get the idea...

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Starting out being raised around Dismal Swamp, I've wasted around in as much low land, swamps, creeks, and rivers as probably anyone in this room. You may have one slither up a sharply leaning tree that is in the water (and I've only seen that one time) but you ain't gonna have one climbing a tree. Nor are you going to have one crawling into a tree stand, I don't care if you have an elevator. Most folks don't know the difference between a common water snake and a boa constrictor. How did you determine that it was a cottonmouth? Oh, I see, it didn't have a red head, nor rattles, ergo, it was a cottonmouth.

I guess I should have mentioned that I have studied herpatology.
Not to mention that i have spent a large portion of the last 57 years stomping around the last 57 years stomping around the most snake infested swamps you can imagine. I recon I can identify a cottonmouth.
Identifying characteristics? Let's see. How about the shape of the head, thickness of the body and coloring.

I am not going to opine on how cottonmouths act in TN. I don't know. However, ask any old cracker if cottonmouths can get in trees. I feel pretty certain all of them will tell you they have seen it plenty of times. I know I have. Most of us crackers who have done a lot of bream fishing have have them fall out of trees into out boats. Happened to me more than once .

Well of course you've studied herpetology. Why am I not surprised.
If you have indeed studied herpetology, you don't get the bullshit flag, you get a double bullshit flag.
To interject a little common sense into this silly-assed discussion: a cottonmouth feeds principally on fish and frogs, of course you know that having studied herpetology. What would he be doing in a tree? His body shape would preclude him climbing a tree I don't care how many "crackers" you've had swear that in your neck of the woods, it rains cottonmouths. And, since you've studied herpetology, you know that colour is the least dependable form of ID. Snakes tend to match their surroundings. I've seen them on watersheds that had light clay and sand banks that were pretty light coloured; and I've seen them in the blackwater swamps that were almost jet black. Also, you forgot to mention the eye. Of course, having studied herpetology, you know what I mean by that. Or maybe you should ask some of your cracker friends.

Cat like eyes and a single abdominal scale from the anal vent to the tip of the tail

All of these are best looked at after the sonof-abitch is dead

From tattoos to snakes and anything under the sun I can count on Tennessee

I'm probably going to make no one happy with this suggestion, but it's something I just thought of.

Cottonmouths obviously swim. Night is their most active feeding time. They can get tired of swimming and climb unto stuff. At night they won't know that thing's a boat that you're slowly sculling around the shallows while fishing. And they can lift themselves unto johnboats (cottonmouths are muscular for snakes). And a johnboat in the water has even less freeboard to climb over than on dry land, where I've seen them perched on boats. And they could go "clunk" when they hit the boat bottom. That alone is frightening. And it being dark, it'd be REAL easy to think they intentionally dropped out of that overhead cypress tree.

I'm thinking some of the "stories" are really about snakes that swam up and came aboard under their own power.

Another even easier explanation is, there are non-venomous water snakes that get into tree branches above the water surface.

Wasbeeman- You are the first person I have ever heard of that has been around cottonmouths much that has not seen them in trees and see them drop out. I don't know how they get up there, but I have sen them in trees in FL, SC, MS and VA. I am not herpetologist proper, but I have worked in 2 zoos and been around a lot of reptiles, and I can say without a doubt (like the majority here) that cottonmouths do get in trees.

I've helped more than just a couple out of a tree or two....just sayin

I fish the Mingo National Wildlife Refuge and Reelfoot Lake....both are cottonmouth factory's

The diamond back water snake gets a bad rep as being a cottonmouth just because of it's size and head shape....

Poor sucker.....death by looking sorta-like

I didn't know there was a snake that couldn't climb a tree! Shows what I know..

God Bless, Louis

I was in a beer joint in OK and a fellow was telling a snake story: He had found a copperhead in his ATTIC. He spread his hands a generous 4' or so and said "he was that long and as big around as my forearm". When I laughed, he gave me a dirty look and wanted to know what was funny? I told him that copperheads didn't frequent attics and they didn't get that big. He gave me a boozy stare and said: "this is my story and I'll make that sombitch as big as I want and I'll put him wherever I wish". Too true, I guess. You guys knock yourselves out. Make those snakes whatever you want and have them doing any amazing stunts you can imagine.
It's kinda like these good old boys in cyberspace that go to Wally's and buy a combo rifle and then post that they're shooting .5" groups with store bought ammo. Believe it if you'd like but some of us know better.

While I don't know why one would follow a thermacell, I've darn sure seen them come right up to people. I can only assume that they're doing it by following scent. Having put in my requisite country boy swamp and slew trapsing, I can say with certainly that a cottonmouth (properly identified) can indeed climb a tree, at least a few feet How else do they get on those limbs to sun? I've seen 'em climb a cypress tree many times. They do it quickly and with ease. They can also indeed climb up a ladder and sun themselves on a dock, so I see no problem at all for one following human scent and climbing up a bit of ladder. FWIW

I would not know a cotton mouth from a Cobra,but I have a Fox Snake that lives in my basement and climbs the walls to get out .In the morning he suns himself and when one some one comes he slides under the siding.I saw him in the basement and painted his tail florescent orange.Sure enough the snake outside has an orange tail.So either he can climb walls or fly.I have a poured basement so I know he has to get in from the top ,down.Did`nt need to be a herpetologist to figure out the obvious.

I'm not disputing that snakes can climb. Some of them anyway. I was in Dardenelle, AR fishing. In the back of a cove was a stand of dead trees. They had been there long enough that all of the bark had shed and they looked like white columns standing in the water. A bunch of grackles had pecked holes in them and were nesting. Speckled water snakes (and there were several) would nose up to a tree and start climbing it. I wasn't paying that much attention but I couldn't see how the snakes were staying on the tree. The snakes weren't working around the tree but going pretty straight up it. At a certain point, the grackles would attack the snake and cause it to drop back in the water. But it would just start over. And some of them were successful in getting into the nest. But they weren't cottonmouths.

Can we try something? How many here have personally seen a clearly identified cottonmouth in a tree? And not a non-venomous or not so clearly ID'd snake. And not on second or third hand knowledge.

And how many here have personally experienced a clearly ID'd cottonmouth dropping in their boat, and actually saw it drop from a tree?

I admit I've seen neither. The closest I can come is my own father who in the '50s did a LOT of local fishing and said a snake fell from a cypress into his boat one pre-dawn morning while out on Horseshoe Lake in AR. That's all I remember about it.

I have never heard of anything like this either.
God knows that I have used Thermacells plenty of times.
I do have to wonder if the cottonmouth can sense the heat. That is one of the things that pit vipers supposedly can do. If they can pick up the heat of a rat for example, I would think they could sense the heat from a Thermacell.

There has been so much rain here the mosquitoes are horrible
. I am using 2 Thermacells to keep them off of me. A lot more snakes are being sighted due to all the water on the ground. I am keeping my eyes open.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
Can we try something? How many here have personally seen a clearly identified cottonmouth in a tree? And not a non-venomous or not so clearly ID'd snake. And not on second or third hand knowledge.

And how many here have personally experienced a clearly ID'd cottonmouth dropping in their boat, and actually saw it drop from a tree?

I admit I've seen neither. The closest I can come is my own father who in the '50s did a LOT of local fishing and said a snake fell from a cypress into his boat one pre-dawn morning while out on Horseshoe Lake in AR. That's all I remember about it.

I have personally seen them many times, particularly while bream fishing. It really isn't that hard for them. Often bushes are basically growing right out of the water . It isn't hard for them at all. I am always careful when getting underneath these bushes. The water snakes are more common in my experience. Personally I want neither in the boat.

I see them far more on the rivers and creeks than i do on lakes for whatever reason.

I wisht I had a nickel for every time I've fished Horseshoe lake in AR. I lived in Mphs for 22 years.

Then I'll bet you know what a "horseshoe slab" is. Or where "happy jacks" is. Or where Zanone's used to be. Or Five Lakes Club. Or Camp Carefree (we called it "Camp Could Care Less") - it's now long out of business. Or which side used to be the main channel of Ole Miss (the river not the school) and on which Mark Twain no doubt piloted on past.

My relatives went there in the 1930s...to shoot snakes amongst other things. I first remember it in the early 1950s with my dad. I recall looking across the lake at the Snowden House and wondering what in the world kind of folks get to have something like that...

Having lived in Georgia most of my life I have to go with Larry on this one. Cottonmouths can and do get into trees.

To give wasbeeman, our self proclaimed snake expert, some respect, the water moccasins I have seen in trees were in trees that were on the bank of a lake, pond, or river. The did have a slant to them as opposed to straight up.

Before you question whether or not I know a cotton mouth from a common water snake, the answer is yes. For any true southerner that was brought up in the country, a quick look at the head makes it very obvious which one you want to stay away from.

Oh no, beeman is not the self proclaimed herpetologist. I have just spent a lot of time where you frequently see snakes. That includes several south east states and the next cottonmouth I see in a tree will be the first one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Starting out being raised around Dismal Swamp, I've wasted around in as much low land, swamps, creeks, and rivers as probably anyone in this room. You may have one slither up a sharply leaning tree that is in the water (and I've only seen that one time) but you ain't gonna have one climbing a tree.QUOTE]

Uh? One time? That is so common, its not funny.

quote:

Originally posted by BongoCongo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Starting out being raised around Dismal Swamp, I've wasted around in as much low land, swamps, creeks, and rivers as probably anyone in this room. You may have one slither up a sharply leaning tree that is in the water (and I've only seen that one time) but you ain't gonna have one climbing a tree.QUOTE]

Uh? One time? That is so common, its not funny.

Agreed. Anyone who lives in cottonmouth country and has never, or only once depending on the post, seen this has either never been in the outdoors or is in dire need of an optometrist.

Dang, Larry, I guess that I'll need to be extra careful in the Green Swamp. In 4 years of thermo use, I've not noticed any extra snake attractions from the thermo but high water will bring in a lot more snakes. If using limited high ground, snakes should be expected in most places. Care should be taken. I've seen plenty of aggressive mocs in FL in my 65 years. I've also seen killed plenty of striped, banded, diamond, ect watersnakes that others swore had a triangle head, fat body,or other description of mocs-only to find curiously no fangs, when an available body was examined for the evidence. Climbing snakes? Not common, but if acreage is under water mostly, where is a snake to go in the swamp? Best All

now Lonnie, you don't want to be getting too close to the truth. These "outdoorsmen" have got it sure fire: it's head ain't red and it ain't got no rattles so's it's got to be a cottonmouth. Ted is the only one that has told the absolute way of telling and none of these "outdoorsmen" have mentioned that a cottonmouth will have a distinct tail starting at the vent that is considerably smaller than the body rather than a smooth taper. Of course, young ones won't be so pronounced but by the time a cottonmouth get much over 2' he will take on a definite short, stubby appearance that is not at all conducive to tree climbing.

Mr. Beeman,

So what are you saying? That you, out of those that live in cottomouth country on these posts, is the only one who can identify a cottonmouth?

I'm not sure where you live qualifies as cottonmouth country compared to those much further south. Remember, it snows where you live.

Here's a link to a cotton mouth in a tree. You have to page down some:

Cottonmouth in Tree

Just so we are all clear



Stump tails, band going from eye back toward tail, mean, nasty, and stinky, will chase you especially during mating season, mouth is white, hence the name, when they swim on top of the water, their entire body is out of the water, floating, where as nearly all other snakes will have only the head out. I have seen a copperhead swim the same way, but have only seen a couple of them swimming. And, yes, they absolutely CAN climb a tree, or other similar object, at least a few feet up.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have never heard of anything like this either.
God knows that I have used Thermacells plenty of times.
I do have to wonder if the cottonmouth can sense the heat. That is one of the things that pit vipers supposedly can do. If they can pick up the heat of a rat for example, I would think they could sense the heat from a Thermacell.

There has been so much rain here the mosquitoes are horrible
. I am using 2 Thermacells to keep them off of me. A lot more snakes are being sighted due to all the water on the ground. I am keeping my eyes open.

When I was a kid we were using a chainsaw (when I saw "we", I mean my dad) cutting shooting lanes for deer season. It was late spring/early summer, so probably June. My dad put the chainsaw down after using it for an hour or so and we walked the lanes a bit, with my dad showing my brothers and I why he cut them that way, etc. and showing us potential stand sites.

When we finished with that, we went back to the chainsaw and my oldest brother went to go grab it for my dad. Just as he reached the chainsaw, my dad stopped him and told him to back up very slowly, which he did. A 6' rattle snake was coiled up right next to it. He'd obviously sensed the heat and came to it looking for a meal.

I would think that's what happened here with the thermacell, though I've never had it happen to me while using it (thankfully). It makes sense, so I'll be sure to keep it a little farther away from now on.

I was fortunate enough to buy a place in Missouri a couple years ago. When talking to the neighbors, they informed me that one of the three lakes on the property, was about 5 acres worth of what everyone around dubbed "snake lake". It has "cottonmouth cove" in it. I will guarantee you that they can, will and DO climb trees. Especially in this neck of the woods, they are fond of willow trees overhanging the water. We make sure to carry the gun and have shot them out of the trees before.

Ted is correct. They are stinky and VERY aggressive during mating season. I had one that I mistakenly thought I could be nice to. She (I assume) was on a bank of a island where I have the dock tethered. She decided she was not leaving. I pursuaded her with a stick into the lake where she went about 50 yards out and had second thoughts. She decided to come back and claim the island. I assumed she bred there. I again pursuaded her to leave with stick and rocks. This time she got all the way to the other bank about 150 yards away and did an about face the second time to swim all the way back to my spot. This time it was snake shot 1, snake 0. She was about 4' long.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
Here's a link to a cotton mouth in a tree. You have to page down some:

that snake stretched out along the limb is NOT a cottonmouth. I will certainly go along with aggressive and not just during mating season. Also, the bit about them swimming on top of the water is what I've seen as a rule rather than an exception. It is so true that you can ID the cottonmouth at a distance at which you can't actually tell what kind of snake it is.
KY lake and the TN river, where I live, is prime cottonmouth real estate. Not like the old river runs and sloughs along the Mississippi but still we've enough to satisfy most folks. Please note the extreme difference in colours of the two cottonmouths pictured. Like I posted, colour is one of the least reliable forms of ID.

Back in the eighties I was trapping nutria for a living. One day I shot a nutria from the airboat and was "attacked" by several large cotton mouths. It was a warm winter day and they tried to climb in the boat striking blindly. I have never seen anything like that before or since then. I have seen them in trees, mostly low lying about chest high.

An article about cotton mouths and their habits.

http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/agkpis.htm

An article about cottonmouths and thermal cues.

http://www.researchgate.net/pu...oc_dl&docViewer=true


An even darker one on my lease during deer season.