quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

You have yet to make an "educated" anything on this website.

Only in your meaningless opinion.

I'm counting at least 4.....

quote:

your meaningless opinion

Crazy, do you realize that is how I view your opinions on any and all of this.

You haven't put in the time, effort and personal resources on these issues to hold an educated, informed opinion.

Nor do you encourage any real activism, you instead hold the view that cutting and running is the way to go.

How can I, or anyone, respect that. Particularly when you're obviously not aware that the same dynamic, and worse, is present in the state (or states) you think are safe.

I mean really now.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

your meaningless opinion

Crazy, do you realize that is how I view your opinions on any and all of this.

You haven't put in the time, effort and personal resources on these issues to hold an educated, informed opinion.

Nor do you encourage any real activism, you instead hold the view that cutting and running is the way to go.

How can I, or anyone, respect that. Particularly when you're obviously not aware that the same dynamic, and worse, is present in the state (or states) you think are safe.

I mean really now.

The absolute scariest part about this whole thing is knowing that he's out spreading this kind of BS propaganda to others that may not know any better. Seriously, claiming that states are managing for trophies only and that the outcry from TX ranchers about the scimitar horned oryx being put on the endangered species list was a "knee jerk reaction" among other things is downright irresponsible.

Keep on with your meaningless and mindless drivel. It has already been shown that there was an over-reaction, and becausae of that, 1/2bor more of the Scimitar Horns have been taken out of the population, meaning that the remaining animals will bring higher prices among those wanting to kill such trophies.

Grow up and wake up. There was a surplus of Scimitar Horns in Texas and people were having to sell hunts for them at prices below hunts for White tail deer. They simply could no longer afford to feed the bastards.

No One took the time or effort to see how the system was going to work, they over-re-acted, taking outv 1/2 or more of the animals at bargain basement prices.

Now, with the new system in place, it does not matter how long or how quick getting the permits takes, prices for shooting the animals is going to increase, and the goverment will be blamed.

The supply exceeded the demand. Because of the economy, people could not afford the hunts and ranchers could not afford to feed that many large animals. For the ranchers having the animals, the permit could not have happened at a better time. They used the "perceived" problems obtaining the permits as a means to dump their excess animals on to the market at extremely attractive prices.

Once all this stuff has sorted its self out, if a person can find a hunt for a Scimitar Horn for LESS than $2500.00 to $3000.00 they had better jump on it.

It does my heart good to see that some people are so gullible that they cannot recognise people taking advantage of a situation and trying to place the blame on the goverment.

Nothing in the legislation prohibits the ranchers from raising the animals, and I can guarantee that people did not kill off ALL of their Scimitar Horns. In fact, for the uneducated in the crowd, the largest breeder of Scimitar Horns in Texas, the Bamberger Ranch, which by the way Is NOT A Hunting Operation, is still producing Scimitar Horns and selling them to those that over-reacted.

Those of you that bought into this have shown just how little real knowledge you have of the exotic animal hunting industry in Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Keep on with your meaningless and mindless drivel. It has already been shown that there was an over-reaction, and becausae of that, 1/2bor more of the Scimitar Horns have been taken out of the population, meaning that the remaining animals will bring higher prices among those wanting to kill such trophies.

Grow up and wake up. There was a surplus of Scimitar Horns in Texas and people were having to sell hunts for them at prices below hunts for White tail deer. They simply could no longer afford to feed the bastards.

No One took the time or effort to see how the system was going to work, they over-re-acted, taking outv 1/2 or more of the animals at bargain basement prices.

Now, with the new system in place, it does not matter how long or how quick getting the permits takes, prices for shooting the animals is going to increase, and the goverment will be blamed.

The supply exceeded the demand. Because of the economy, people could not afford the hunts and ranchers could not afford to feed that many large animals. For the ranchers having the animals, the permit could not have happened at a better time. They used the "perceived" problems obtaining the permits as a means to dump their excess animals on to the market at extremely attractive prices.

Once all this stuff has sorted its self out, if a person can find a hunt for a Scimitar Horn for LESS than $2500.00 to $3000.00 they had better jump on it.

It does my heart good to see that some people are so gullible that they cannot recognise people taking advantage of a situation and trying to place the blame on the goverment.

Nothing in the legislation prohibits the ranchers from raising the animals, and I can guarantee that people did not kill off ALL of their Scimitar Horns. In fact, for the uneducated in the crowd, the largest breeder of Scimitar Horns in Texas, the Bamberger Ranch, which by the way Is NOT A Hunting Operation, is still producing Scimitar Horns and selling them to those that over-reacted.

Those of you that bought into this have shown just how little real knowledge you have of the exotic animal hunting industry in Texas.

Quoted for posterity

David Bamberger cant give them away. Here is a link to a story from April of this year...


http://www.statesman.com/news/....html?printArticle=y

..."Right now, you couldn't give away a scimitar-horned oryx. They're nothing but an economic burden," Bamberger said...

..Bamberger said, the requirement of permits "removed a market for these animals." If no one is buying or hunting his oryxes, the herd will grow too big for his preserve and start dying off, he said...

Or how about this clip from the 60 minutes segment on these Oryx...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=channel&list=UL


Here is a link to a story about that 60 Minutes special...

http://www.zoenature.org/2012/...-endangered-animals/

Texas ranch owner David Bamberger sounds passionate about saving the animals. He started bringing endangered animals to his ranch from zoos in the 1970s to care for them and breed them. Now 83 years old, he sounded tired when he said he also supports trophy hunting

Bamberger: "I’m not fond of it at all, but I’m wise enough, smart enough to know if there’s no incentive, if altruism is the only incentive you’re not gonna get a great deal of participation on someone whose livelihood depends on bringing in dollars"

Heres more on the issue...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/ne...19.php#ixzz1xjiX9A1O

J. David Bamberger, a celebrated Texas conservationist who pioneered the growth of the Texas scimitar-horned oryx herd in the late 1970s on his Hill Country ranch, said the initial oryx breeding program was started by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums in an attempt to maintain the genetic diversity of those few animals then in captivity.

If the market tanks, he said he will have to apply for a hard-to-get permit from the government so that he can cull his herd in order to keep it genetically diverse. The new rule will, in effect, force him to start shooting the antelope he has refused to shoot until now.

Some ranchers will apply for permits and continue offering the three antelope for hunts, said Texas biologist Elizabeth Mungall, the author of a book on the state's exotic wildlife. She said many won't, however, because of the bureaucracy involved and because of the government intrusion it will entail.

“These permits will allow the government to come onto their private property at any time, unannounced for inspection,” she said.

1) The biggest threat to hunting is hunters not sticking up for people that shoot exotics in fenced-in ranches.

2) CA lost all its hunting rights and you cannot hunt there because the hunters were out voted.

3) The reason 1/2 or more Scimitars were taken off hunting ranches was because it got to expensive to feed them.

4) Getting a CITES permit is not a big deal.


Is there anything more I’m missing?

quote:

“These permits will allow the government to come onto their private property at any time, unannounced for inspection,” she said.

Seems like I remember similar arguements made when the Federal Firearmss Laws were enacted. Last time I was involved in buying a gun it took a few minutes filling out a form and about a 5 minute phone call and I waltzed out of the store with the gun.

Drummond believe all the propaganda people are spewing forth that is you priveledge. I live down here and was recently in a conversation with a man that is in the exotic animal industry and his take on the situation, was that people acted to quickly because of their "FEAR" of the goverment and that many of the folks with small numbers of oryx, mainly those doing put and take on smaller acreages, got rid of all their animals, but that the larger operators will in the long run come out in better shape. There are still animals out there, they are still breeding, there are just not as many as there were plus the folks that held on to their animals will be able to charge more for the ones they have to offer the folks wanting to shoot them.

The demand for the animals is still there and once the permit process gets the newness and any kinks worked out, people will be shooting oryx again.

quote:

Originally posted by CA Safari Hunter:
1) The biggest threat to hunting is hunters not sticking up for people that shoot exotics in fenced-in ranches.

2) CA lost all its hunting rights and you cannot hunt there because the hunters were out voted.

3) The reason 1/2 or more Scimitars were taken off hunting ranches was because it got to expensive to feed them.

4) Getting a CITES permit is not a big deal.


Is there anything more I’m missing?

Yes, you missed this gem from the other thread where he is bringing down our collective IQs.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
...The intelligent people on this site seem to ignore me...

quote:

1) The biggest threat to hunting is hunters not sticking up for people that shoot exotics in fenced-in ranches.

2) CA lost all its hunting rights and you cannot hunt there because the hunters were out voted.

3) The reason 1/2 or more Scimitars were taken off hunting ranches was because it got to expensive to feed them.

4) Getting a CITES permit is not a big deal.


Is there anything more I’m missing?

1. The biggest threat to hunting i the elitist attitude concerning the use of the words hunter/hunting.

2. California is the state that is in the most danger of losing all of its hunting rights, looking back at what already has been lost and the fact that it was thru the ballot box that it was lost should present enough Prima facie evidence to make one less than optomistic about the future of hunting in that state.

3. Too many large animals that require feed and room and were NOT THE ONLY animals on those properties along with a bad economy and a knee jerk reaction to Federal Goverment interference combined to create the rush to kill off so many animals.

4. See above, no one knew how easy or hard getting the permit was going to be so people paniced.

There now, that is a little more realistic analysis of what has/is happening.

CHC---I hate to even get involved in this or the other thread where you are coming up with so many statements that you can't/don't back up, but I guess I will. I'm not in love with CA either, but will you please tell me where you get your seemed expertise on CA and how you can make the statements you are about CA. Would you please name all the things that CA has lost when I can't really think of hardly any more that some of the other states have lost like baiting, trapping, running cats/bears with dogs, etc. I believe there are a number of states that are in the same pickle and about the only one CA has enacted that I don't think any other state has so far is the no lead bullet ban for hunting that is supposedly to protect Condors feeding on game that is shot and not recovered. We all know that was just BS and is to make it harder and more expensive to hunt with the antis probably figuring that would take a few hunters from the sport and it probably has. I do happen to have several relatives out in the northern half of CA and they do more hunting of various big and small game there than most of my friends and internet acquaintances in all the the other states they live in! I will say that I don't agree with a lot of your opinions, but I will not resort to vulgar name calling like at least one member has on these Forums. When I read remarks like that, I immediately dismiss that person from the debate, regardless of whether I agree with every single thing they say or believe in!

Top Gun, I have never claimed to be an expert on anything. look back up thru some of the responses that have been made by people that live or have lived in California.

Try going back and look at the thread concerning the head of the california G&F commision and the turmoil he has went thru over going to another state and legally killing a Mountain Lion. Or go a little farther back and locate the thread started by a California hunter that was requesting support because there simply not enough hunters to defeat the anti's at the polls.

I do not hate California, and I do feel bad for the folks living there that enjoy hunting. Bottom line though, there is not one damn thing I can do as a Non-Resident to help them out of their situation. There is really nothing Non-Californian's can do to reverse what is happening out there. We cannot vote in their elections. We can/could send money till we bankrupted ourselves, it still is not going to help, their enemy is too numerous-too powerful and has a tremendous headstart in the battle.

One thing I can do is learn from what is happening/has happened out there is to be aware of how the anti's work and what will be needed to be done to put up some sort of reasonable defence.

I never expect or request anyone to agree with me. My opinions and my thoughts and beliefs are just that, nothing more. This is supposed to be an open forum after all. The name calling, references to a persons intelligence level/experience level do not help the site or the discussions.

As for being able to prove or disprove anything when I form or state an opinion, I go strictly off what I see and have experienced, not any PC propaganda put out by anyone. Just my thought on the matter, it is like anything esle, one side sees things one way, the other side views it completely differently, while the actual truth lays somewhere in the middle.

quote:

hate to use Paul as an example but he opened himself up to it, he lost more outdoor opportunity by relocating to AZ from CA than he ever did to the antis in CA.

You got yhat wrong because I moved to Nevada, not Arizona and have great hunting. The only reason I ended up in Arizona was due to a job transfer with a very big pay raise. Thirsty years ago only deer in the Kaibab, elk, Bighorn Sheep, Antelope were draw only tags. At least the kaidbab tag and elk tags were simple to get in a draw but with the reputation AZ has for big deer and elk, the non-resodent rush seems to have taken over and every year it gets harder to draw for anything. Seems like the state is giving the choice hunting areas to the rich who don't mind paying for those over priced tags. No problem. I just call my friendy outfitter and he sets me up with a hunt.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
Seems like the state is giving the choice hunting areas to the rich who don't mind paying for those over priced tags. No problem. I just call my friendy outfitter and he sets me up with a hunt.
Paul B.

Never heard a guy complain about the rich getting all the tags and then "calling his outfitter" to set up a hunt for him

quote:

You got yhat wrong because I moved to Nevada,

Guess what Paul, "they" are in NV too. As evidenced by the opposition to the bear hunt in NV, where they did hold public protests on the roads. Quite a few of those from NV came to Sacramento to testify on SB 1221 at the Senate hearing, BTW. Trapping is getting some heat too.

And............... As a result of a court decision on qualifying ballot measures in NV, that process is now much easier and it is possible for HSUS and Co. to put issues like trapping, bear & lion hunting, the use of hounds, predator control, etc, etc. on the ballot for voters to decide. Which they will do.

Add in the fact that NV's population is a majority of urban/suburban voters, which isn't favorable to our interests.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
It is called making an educated decision.

You have yet to make an "educated" anything on this website.

How very true Drummond - thanks for pointing that out.

Try reading this thread with CHC on ignore like I do - It's hysterical. Last comment on that fool, it's probably the alcohol/"pain pills" talking again.

I think CA has some wonderful opportunities for residents. As evidenced by this slug. A zone, OTC tag



CA is right on par with most other western states - generous tags to residents, non-residents need to get on the treadmill for tags, some areas are very good, most not so good. Local knowledge is invaluable, as are friends with nice properties.

And CA is just like everywhere else - good, bad, can use improvement, depending how you look at it.

Best

CHC---Your lack of any facts in your response to me is exactly what I thought would be forthcoming from you based on your pattern in these two ongoing threads regarding CA and Oryx. Your opinions seem to hardly ever be backed up by facts. I know your intentions are super, but if you continue on like you have it is really hard to take you seriously. I hope you are not just typing to keep your fingers active. It'a always a retort that your opinions are what you say you are aware of by hearing or reading about it. I asked you two specific questions as to where you got the information to base your opinions and statements on and got nothing but a bunch of gobble di goop telling me to go read such and such. I'll ask you again to please tell me what more CA hunters have lost than a number of other states for you to say that CA is worst on the list and also to tell me where you got the numbers to say that half the Oryx in Texas were shot before the Federal permits were instituted.

TopGun, I am not asking you or anyone else to take me seriously.

Here is an old saying about Opinions and Ideas. "Opinions and Ideas are like ass holes, everyone has them and they stink"!

I really do not know where this whole business about a person's opinions have to be based on fact, but it is a fairly new concept, because growing up people would express an opinion, and if proven wrong, they would admit to being wrong, and make another opinion, based on the information available for them.

Yours or anyone else's personal opinion of me and my opinions, is meaningless, real plain/real simple. As I stated elsewhere, I base my opinions on what I see happening, the various articles published concerning the activities in danger of being outlawed, thru personal conversations with folks having a different source of informatipon available to them.

I apologise profusely if that does not measure up to yours or anyone else's standards, but, I do have the right to form an opinion based upon the information available to me. This makes the second or third time I have repeated that statement, possibly on this one thread. You want to base your opinions on absolute facts, stop and see what kind of absolute facts you can find about Obama and his ascent to the presidentsy of our country.

Having or earning respect for anyone, IMO, only happens AFTER actual face to face meetings with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
TopGun, I am not asking you or anyone else to take me seriously.

Here is an old saying about Opinions and Ideas. "Opinions and Ideas are like ass holes, everyone has them and they stink"!

I really do not know where this whole business about a person's opinions have to be based on fact, but it is a fairly new concept, because growing up people would express an opinion, and if proven wrong, they would admit to being wrong, and make another opinion, based on the information available for them.

You have to be kidding me

CHC---After that reply, I don't know how anybody could take you for anything! If you post all this stuff and are not serious, why in the hell are you even on here wasting our time? I imagine anyone who reads your post is shaking their head just like I am and wondering why you even post after reading another factless response like that!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
CHC---After that reply, I don't know how anybody could take you for anything! If you post all this stuff and are not serious, why in the hell are you even on here wasting our time? I imagine anyone who reads your post is shaking their head just like I am and wondering why you even post after reading another factless response like that!

Its frustrating because its impossible to rationalize irrational thoughts and CHC has not had a rational thought since he started these discussions.

Normally I would give somebody the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to them having good intentions but I question CHC's motives.

How else are we supposed to understand at his contradictory statements? One one hand the anti's are the devil yet on the other hand the anti's victory in TX regarding Scimitar Horned Oryx is no big deal and the landowers reaction was a "knee jerk" reaction. Whose side is he really on?

He then tells Topgun that he's "not asking you or anyone else to take me seriously".

This is a game to him, its an attention whore tactic that disgusts me.

Drummond, there is no way I will ever convince you that this is not a game to me. I am on the side of hunters and hunting, ALL Hunters And ALL Forms Of LEGAL Hunting. Nothing I have stated is contradictory.

I never stated that the listing of the scimitar horn oryx/addax/dama gazelle was not a big deal, because it was and should not have been done. What I stated and still maintain is the people with the animals, especially the oryx, over-reacted to the listing. I have not heard of a large kill off of either of the other two spercies. I BELIEVE that there are a couple of reasons why the wholesale shooting of those specvies has not happened. 1, There are not as many of them being held or offered to be hunted, and 2, the cost to shoot those species had not dropped to the prices the scimitar horns had.

The folks offering hunts for those species are in business, it is not good or sound business practice to hang onto something that MAY not be able to be sold. When the permit regulations started heading toward reality, people, especially those holding smaller numbers of the animal/people doing put and take operations i.e. only keeping a few animals and as they got shot replacing them, not an operation where breeding was taking place, the decision was made to purge their operation of that species instead of waiting to find out how hard or draconian the permit system was going to be.

Those operators that did hang onto their animals, once the permit process is fine tuned, will be able to offer hunts and they will be able to chatge more since there is not a glut on the market. Simple business concept.

You nor anyone else can prove me wrong on this. The only way I will be proven right or wrong will be how things are going with the permit system/hunting of the animals 12 to 24 months AFTER the system has been implemented. If at that time people are still hunting oryx and the operators are not having any real problems in getting the permits and the only difference is that the hunts for these species have increased in price, I think that will prove that I was not real far off with my opinion of the situation.

I really would like for you or Top Gun to point out to me anywhere it states that anyone has to read my posts/responses and comment on them. During the time I have been on this site I have never noticed anything anywhere stating that anyone had to read or respond to another members posts/responses.

Nor have I seen where any members posts/responses had to make sense to anyone but themselves.

Opinion: This is from the Merriam-Webster On Line Dictionary, and not an opinion.

1. a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter.

2. a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.

I base my opinions using the definitions listed above. Drummond you and Top Gun please point out anywhere you see that FACTS have to be part of the process for forming an OPINION!

Why does giving an opinion and defending that opinion make anyone an attention whore? Is that assessment based on any provable fact or is it based on the fact that opinions that differ from yours should not be alllowed. Top Gun I am beginning to believe you are of that same mind set.

With the melodrama out of the way, it is a proven fact that during the past 40 years or so California has been the main battleground between hunters and the anti-hunting factions and hunters have been coming out on the losing end, simply because they are a minority in that state and cannot out vote the other side.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
...Nothing I have stated is contradictory.

I never stated that the listing of the scimitar horn oryx/addax/dama gazelle was not a big deal, because it was and should not have been done. What I stated and still maintain is the people with the animals, especially the oryx, over-reacted to the listing. I have not heard of a large kill off of either of the other two spercies. I BELIEVE that there are a couple of reasons why the wholesale shooting of those specvies has not happened. 1, There are not as many of them being held or offered to be hunted, and 2, the cost to shoot those species had not dropped to the prices the scimitar horns had.

Are you sure that nothing you have said contradicts itself?

Crazy, you haven't heard of a large kill off of Oryx since April 5 because they are federally protected and a landowner would go to prison if he killed them off. The Feds now control ....... WTF am I doing? I might as well try to teach my dog to drive my truck

I give up!!!

Quote by CHC


"With the melodrama out of the way, it is a proven fact that during the past 40 years or so California has been the main battleground between hunters and the anti-hunting factions and hunters have been coming out on the losing end, simply because they are a minority in that state and cannot out vote the other side".

That statement is not true. Californians have lost no hunting seasons or rights, save mountain lions in the early 70's and that was implemented by the fish and game department due to cat numbers at tne time could not sustain any kind of a hunt...not by a vote of anti's. In the mid 90's the DFG tried to restore a season and the HSUS pumped tons of money into prop 117 which passed by a slight margin to give mountain lions speacial protection in California.
No season has been taken from us before or after... in fact we have aquired more hunting opportunity if anything. We can now during the dove season take as many eurasian dove as we can possiby shoot...no limit. can Texas.
Sure California has zones and tag draw requirments but these are sound conservation methods in the number 1 populos state in the nation.The information we recieve from our conservation program in invaluable in protecting wildlife numbers.
These anti attacks are happening in all states... not just in California, and it seems to me since we all live in glass houses, mabey we should'nt throw stone at each other.

Max

maxart---It's no use, as I have asked twice for a list of all the stuff you CA guys have lost for CHC to say what he's saying about CA being the leading state and there has not been even one thing posted by him to show his "proven fact" to back up that opinion. He has also neglected to answer the question of where he came up with the "fact" that half of the Oryx were killed in Texas before the permit system was instituted recently by the USFWS. It seems to be that way with almost everything he posts and yet all I get is a comment about people taking him or not taking him seriously and then this retort from him: "Top Gun I am beginning to believe you are of that same mind set." I don't know what mind set he's referring to, but I do know in my mind that it's very hard to read his posts and make any sense of them to even try and respond!

quote:

Crazy, you haven't heard of a large kill off of Oryx since April 5 because they are federally protected and a landowner would go to prison if he killed them off. The Feds now control ....... WTF am I doing? I might as well try to teach my dog to drive my truck

The kill off took place BEFORE the April 5 deadline. Why don't you just put me on ignore since yoiu cannlot seem to understand that the stuff I am talking about has already taken place.

The animals were already dead and on their way to the processor/taxidermist by the time the April 5 deadline took effect.

quote:

That statement is not true. Californians have lost no hunting seasons or rights, save mountain lions in the early 70's and that was implemented by the fish and game department due to cat numbers at tne time could not sustain any kind of a hunt

The year the banning of hunting moutain lions took place, more lions were killed by the state on depredation permits, than had been killed by sport hunters during the three previous years. Why don't you go back and check some actual facts from your own G&F department.

Top Gun, I had been advised about you and your little games, and I see that the advice was correct.

You state that opinions have to be based on facts, that is pure

A person does not form an opinion about factual information.

Don't believe me, wrap your brain around this.

There will be a Presidential Election in November 2012. that is not an opinion, that is a FACT.

I believe that Mitt Romney will be elected President! that, is an OPINION, because it has NO FACTUAL BASIS.

You cannot say that the election happening in Nobvember is an opinion, because the election has been happening in November for years.

Predicting who will actually win, Is Anyone's Guess, And Is An Opinion.

CHC stated: "Top Gun, I had been advised about you and your little games, and I see that the advice was correct. A person does not form an opinion about factual information. I believe that Mitt Romney will be elected President! that, is an OPINION, because it has NO FACTUAL BASIS."


That is a good one because you are not on any other websites I visit for anybody to give you any advice about me and there is only one person that knows me on this one and he sure isn't on your list of friends to give you any type of advice! "Little games", LOL!!! May I ask what grade level you passed to make silly statements like the rest of what I quoted because my 13 year old granddaughter knows better than that? Do you ever post anything other that the same old baloney time after time? The little bit I'm on this site I have sort of liked you, but this and the Oryx posts make it seem like you are now posting BS to try and stir up trouble or post just to be posting! Do we get a prize for having the most posts per day or something, LOL?Your response to maxart on the mountain lion kill has nothing to do with what he stated! You may be correct about people having opinions that aren't based on fact. However, normally on websites like this where people are having a debate about something, you routinely need to show facts to have anyone consider your side of the discussion/debate and to have anyone consider your post seriously. By that one statement you made about anyone taking you serious makes you look very bad and just a pot stirrer, which is really too bad because I think you have a lot to offer if you would just think a little bit before you post! PS: Also, please don't tell me to put you on my ignore list like you did DL because I need a little humor every day and I think I have found it in your posts!

quote:

That is a good one because you are not on any other websites I visit for anybody to give you any advice about me and there is only one person that knows me on this one and he sure isn't on your list of friends to give you any type of advice!

That is an opinion, and a wrong one bucko. Not everyone on here thinks I am so stupid, and some of them are on websites you are or have been on.

So if it's wrong prove it, and with fact on this one "bucko"! Without providing proof you are just talking more BS and I'm sure people can see that!!! Besides that, you haven't even stated what you meant by that "games" statement, so also please tell us what games you are talking about and and maybe I can make a better reply, although dealing with you it would probably do no good. I've given you my perspectives and am not beating around the bush, having told you right out on this thread what I think. If I agree with you on something, I will tell you so. If I disagree with you for some reason, I'm also man enough to tell you that and tell you why. Why don't you practice that same philosophy instead of coming on here just to seemingly piss a bunch of people off with what appears to be senseless drivel! Playing games my ass!!! I'll tell you when I'm playing games and it sure isn't on this thread or website, LOL!

How about settling this in a reasonable manner.

Fact or Opinion, there will be a Presidential election in the United States this November.

Fact or Opinion, Barack Obama will win a second term in the White House.

Facts, are facts, intelligent people do not form opinions on FACTS. Water is wet. Is that a fact or an opinion?

The .375 H&H is the most perfect caliber ever built, Fact or Opinion?

Do You Have ANY Verifiable Facts As To My Intelligence Level, or are you expressing a non-factual opinion?

I have never adked or expected you or ANYONE else on this site or any other to agree with me.

If you choose to disagree with me, it is no sweat off my arse. I do not have to practice yours or anyone else's philosophy, I practice my own and that is everyone can make their own mind up on any given issue. I just present opposing views and alternatives.

You are making statements that are nothing more than opinions about me, someone you and 99.9% of the folks on this place have never met nor will ever meet. You have no actual/factual knowledge about me, yet you think it is A-OK for you to state an opinion but not for me.

It is no skin off my ass if they close hunting down in California completely tomorrow. I would hate to see it happen and I would feel bad for those affected, but actually, Not An Opinion, there is not one damn thing any of us that are not California Residents can do to stop it.

Settle what in a reasonable manner when you won't respond with anything of substance when someone addresses you about your thoughts or opinions, and also make a statement like you did about anyone taking you seriously, LOL? Anyone reading your posts can surely form a pretty good opinion on your intelligence level seeing as how you asked! Maybe after reading another post like that with nothing factual I will have to think about putting you on the ignore list. You still haven't listed one friggin thing to answer anything I, or anyone else, has requested or made any posts to actually benefit this thread! No wonder DL got so frustrated and called you all those names because I'm getting real close reading all the crap you keep posting! I'm outa here, so talk to yourself from here on bucko!

By CHC:

quote:

The year the banning of hunting moutain lions took place, more lions were killed by the state on depredation permits, than had been killed by sport hunters during the three previous years. Why don't you go back and check some actual facts from your own G&F department.

The initial moratorium occurred in 1972 and was renewed on an annual basis until 1990. A permanent statutory ban occurred in 1990.

No records exist prior to 1972 regarding sport hunting of mountain lions so I can't see any basis for your statement.

Additionally, depredation permits are issued to individuals and filled by individuals not state DFG employees.

Crazy

quote:

I believe that Mitt Romney will be elected President! that, is an OPINION, because it has NO FACTUAL BASIS.

That is more of a prediction. Now if you said,"I feel Mitt Romney would make a better President." that is an opinion. A person may even go on to give reasons why they would make that statement, and those reasons should/could be backed up by facts.

One of the members of this forum Win 458, who I have great respect for stated it best, and is the most compelling argument for not getting too excited about the anti's, we have facts and the truth on our side.

As long as we as hunters can stick to the facts and the truth we can and will continue to hunt. When we use opinions not based on facts we are no better than the anti's. Because that don't have facts and truth on their side, right? The only ammunition they have is emotional BS, and the actions of people taking animals using questionable methods, and calling it hunting.

I was just in CA with the family two weeks ago, absolutely beautiful state. That is a fact.

Maybe the information I saw was wrong or maybe I miss-read it or maybe it was just propaganda that someone unhappy with the closing of lion hunting thru out for Public consumption, but it would have been after the 1990 date.

If I remember correctly, the in formation I saw was in one of the outdoor magazines, Outdoor Life or Field & Stream, one of those I believe.

Sort of like if it is on the internet it has to be real. I do not remember if it was in an actual article or a "Letters To The Editor" section.

I believe that it also stated that G&F employees were the ones that handled the Depredation permits. To the best of my memory, I never read anything that disputed that. I was wrong and did not check into it further and life rolled along me not knowing any better.

quote:

Now if you said,"I feel Mitt Romney would make a better President." that is an opinion.

Slim, THAT is an opinion on your part about how I should state things. I am not you, you are not me. Each of us, and this applies to EVERYONE on this site is an INDIVIDUAL, and as such has the RIGHT to make statements in their OWN manner as long as it is done civilly.

Also, as I pointed out earlier in this clusterpuck, hunters do not really have the truth on their side. Without trying to re-hash that whole mess, but, we do not hunt because we have too to provide food for our families and onmly shooting the biggest and best specimen of a species and game departments basing their management plans around just 1 segment of the population, in this case "Trophy" animals is not sound conservation practice.

Telling someone that if they would have used different wording or punctuation or phraseology when making a statement would have been better, you are basically telling them that they beneath your level of intelligence.

Crazy

quote:

Telling someone that if they would have used different wording or punctuation or phraseology when making a statement would have been better, you are basically telling them that they beneath your level of intelligence.

Or just some constructive feedback.

At this point in time, the only thing I need constructed is a new left elbow!