Besides this new bill (no more using hounds on black bear and bobcats), can some please tell me what hunting rights Californian hunters have lost? I lived and hunted in CA my entire life and the only thing I remember losing, is the “lead free condor zone”. When I started hunting, mountain lions were already off the big game list, so I’m used to that. But apparently there’s a lot of hunting rights that I have lost???

I’ve put in for same 4 big game drawing tags (deer/elk/antelope/bighorn) in the same units since I was a kid, and they are still there, so am I missing something??? Pig tags use to be sold by the book for $5-$7, but they are still here to buy? I’m waiting for DF&G to come up with a turkey tag, but so far they haven’t. Everything cost more than it did last year, but so does every-other state I hunt.

I’ve never been harassed while hunting in CA, and I’ve spent the last 5 years hunting near a State Park. I run into a couple hikers that are on the Pacific Crest Trail while deer hunting, and surprised them, but I have never been harassed. Am I doing something wrong? Am I missing something?

quote:

Besides this new bill (no more using hounds on black bear and bobcats), can some please tell me what hunting rights Californian hunters have lost? I lived and hunted in CA my entire life and the only thing I remember losing, is the “lead free condor zone”. When I started hunting, mountain lions were already off the big game list, so I’m used to that. But apparently there’s a lot of hunting rights that I have lost???

I’ve put in for same 4 big game drawing tags (deer/elk/antelope/bighorn) in the same units since I was a kid, and they are still there, so am I missing something??? Pig tags use to be sold by the book for $5-$7, but they are still here to buy? I’m waiting for DF&G to come up with a turkey tag, but so far they haven’t. Everything cost more than it did last year, but so does every-other state I hunt.

I’ve never been harassed while hunting in CA, and I’ve spent the last 5 years hunting near a State Park. I run into a couple hikers that are on the Pacific Crest Trail while deer hunting, and surprised them, but I have never been harassed. Am I doing something wrong? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something, something very fundamental.

People are working to close a form of hunting that was around before your Grand Father was alive, hound Hunting for Bobcats and Bear!

You are having to Put In for tags, do a little research and see when that got started. There are No turkey tags, Why? feral hogs, you have to buy tags and there are seasons, WHY? They are pests everywhere!

Mountain Lions were already off the list and the first year they were off the list, more lions were killed by predator control agents than had been killed by sport hunters, BEFORE the legislation was passed.

What you are missing/have missed, is that types of hunting/types of equipment/species available to hunt were taken away from California Hunters, BEFORE you ever started hunting. If you did not grow up with it, you do not know what it means to only have memories.

You wil not miss out on that, because at the rate things are going in your state, you will have various hunting opportunities taken away from you.

Maybe then you will understand just exactly the signifigance of losing the ability to hunt Mountain Lions, losing the ability to hunt with the equipment or method of your choice and what it actually means.

How much research have you done into the history of the California Game and Fish Department? They did and tried to do a lot of really impressive programs over the years, PRIOR to the 1980's.

Mid to late 70's, early 80's, things started going south for California Sportsmen. The states population increased too fast and the folks that moved there often had no ties with the land/hunting or nature.

I am not your enemy, I hate to see what happened to California over the past 35 to 40 years or so. At your age, there was/is so much that was done taken away from the sportsmen by the time you got interested in the sport, that finding folks with the actual memories of those days is hard to do.

I have hunted Ca. for 25 yrs. and I'am a houndsman with Redbone coon hounds and that is one form of my hunting.
Every law that diminishes or restricts our hunting sport and heritage, takes away a piece of our foundation and eventually the house will crumble and all we could do is stand around bewildered to what happened. The liberal self rightous left are organized and in force stuffing any and all restrictions down our throat eventually we will have no leg to stand on. Just look at our states politics and gun laws etc..
Recently a high ranking Dept. of fish and game employee shot a lion legally out of state. Not only he is never allowed to bring his legally obtained trophy home. He was chastized by peta/animal right groups and politicians and were seeking his unappointment because he does not follow their twisted agenda. I'll give you one more story. A lion in Eldorado hills east of Saramento killed and partially consumed a female jogger. The lion was captured a $100,000 in donations were recieved to put the lion in the Folsom zoo. What did the victim recieve? try Zero.
Deer hunting used to be 3 points or better it was changed to forked horn. Now the trophy bucks that this state has will never reach maturity. They want to sell tags strictly to make money and they make sure the season is so early that a 100 degree plus weather is common where no one wants to hunt. Add a moratorium on lions which are abundant and in the near future Wolfs which has been sighted in Northern Ca. It's just a matter of time before the hunting hearst will roll in. On this present course where do you think we will be 35-40 yrs. from now.
Pigs are varmints period. There used to be no limit on the take or tags required. DFG original claim when starting to require the purchase of tags or books was simply to gather data on population for management. Now it has become the #1 hunted animal in the state generating revenue with no return to the hunters. What areas on public land that DFG spent money on to improve habitat and allow us a return on our money. In San Diego county there is now a large growing population of swine. DFG has hired dept. of fish and wildlife and other gov't. entitied to try to eradicate the population. What opportunities did they provide for us hunters in access or any form in that matter. Most successful pig hunting is on private property expect to spend money and privately managed! Public land pig hunting is a waste of time guaranteeing frustration and extremely low harvest.
I'am resigned to the idea of having to spend my money out of state where the people appreciate it and deserve it. I have hunted all over Western U.S. and Ak.
The reason you are not harrased by the public while hunting is because most people in rural areas or who make their living off the land by farming/ranching are mostly for it. It's the large voting public in large cities such as San Fran.,L.A., Sacramento that have been dictating policy to our dismay.

The reason they go after hound hunting is that they are a small group, (low hanging fruit).They are seen as an easy target for the anti's and from your post I assume you are okay with this new legislation? That is exactly what the anti's are counting on. They will be after your hunting interest next.

I remember when you didn't have to have a tag for mountain lion or hogs, and there are probably more of them now than there was then. I left California 30 years ago and have never regreted it.

I lived in Siskyou County decades ago, would like to go back there to hunt one of these years. At the time we were allowed two deer, two bear each season, and the trout limit was 10 per day...

Just to be clear, I’m not for the banning of any hounds. I have written my Representatives and have sent the emails. I support REMF, FNAWS, MDF and even SCI and do what I’m asked. My brother has a few Houndsman friends that will be hurting if this bill is passed. I have not hunted for bear with them, but I have been on a couple pig hunts with dogs. I see nothing wrong with using dogs. The majority of my hunting time is spent hunting deer, and going out of state to hunt more deer.

I spend a lot of time in D5 and in the Sierras. The places I go are usually full of bunny hungers out for a nature walk. I have never been harassed but I have had some funny looks. No one (or group) is stopping me or the other 100 hunters on opening day. No one is holding signs and the hunter check-in’s are on the same street as the ski resorts (that are full of more bunny huggers). When I see some post here about CA I wonder if they have ever hunted in CA.

TomP – I’m headed to Lake Siskiyou in July. You’re still allowed 2 deer, but 1 bear and 5 trout. The creeks up there are still full of fish. Last year I was almost bit by a rattler fishing the creeks near Gumboot Lake. Didn’t know rattlesnakes were up that high and almost got nailed.

quote:

I spend a lot of time in D5 and in the Sierras. The places I go are usually full of bunny hungers out for a nature walk. I have never been harassed but I have had some funny looks. No one (or group) is stopping me or the other 100 hunters on opening day. No one is holding signs and the hunter check-in’s are on the same street as the ski resorts (that are full of more bunny huggers). When I see some post here about CA I wonder if they have ever hunted in CA.

They are not going to be harassing you in the field. They are not going to be out on the road holding signs. They do not do that in any state. They do it thru the ballot box. Do not know about California, but most states have enacted fairly stiff laws concerning harassing hunters.

No, the bunny huggers are not going to leave the comfort of their ski lodges/country clubs or any of the other places they gather and sully themselves with actually facing their opposition. They get their legal consultants to help them get such bills as the one concerning the use of hounds on a ballot and before the Public.

1992 was the first year I hunted Colorado. It also happened to be, I believe, the first year AFTER the bunny huggers got hunting bear with hounds and over a bait outlawed. the hunters/guides-outfitters and the DOW fought long and hard to try and defeat that measure. But just like California, they were outnumbered at the ballot box.

It does not matter whether a person has hunted California or Colorado or wherever, the folks wanting to stop hunting are working all over the globe, and anytime they score a victory, whether it is a method of hunting or a species, that gives them the impetus to move on to the next state, the next method or the next species.

As long as they win a victory every now and then, they will keep up their activities. With hunter numbers declining worldwide, the victories are being won at the ballot box, and those victories are based on nothing more than emotions no real scientific data is used.

Ca Safari Hunter. I left California permanently forever and 1,000 uyears over much of the crap in California and hunting was one of them.
I did my first deer hunt in CA in 1949. There wee only two areas, the Coastal and the Inland. If you hunted the Coastal area, you could take two deer. For the Inland it was only one. Even back then does and spikes were protected. On more than one occasion I shot a forked horn deer that had a vagina and mammary glands. Three to be exact but they had hoerns so they were legal. In Humbolt County, bears were such a nuisence that you got two tags for $2.00. Fill those tags and the local warden would guve you two more, absolutley FREE. Dunno if they still do it but back then you could put in to try a draw a doe tag. I never did get one and quit trying when I learen they all went to members of the Sierra Club who had a big Labor day party and burned all the tags.
Did I mention that does and spikes were sacred cows? Spike are genetically deficient and will never have a decent rack yet they're protected.
California Fish and Game has always been severely hamstrung because all license and tag money went into the general fund and F&G had to go hat in hand begging for what they could get. I doubt very much that has changed. At times, trying find a place to hunt that was convenient was a near impossibility. I used to hunt a privavte ranch in Lake County that was ownd by friends of the family. I left to do my time in the military and when I got home and got ready to do a hunt, I learned that a bunch of very rich lawyers had leased the place for their exclusive use. The was the first ranch I lost due to the wealthy and it damn well wasn't the last.
That was just one of the reasons I left the land of fruits, nuts and flakes but not the biggest reason. Now you guys have to use lead free bullets in a fair part of the state. You couldn't pay me any amount of money yo go back. No way in hell.
It's a beautiful state, but your communist government has totally phucked it up.
Paul B.

CA,

It's hard to believe the difference in freedoms between your place and many other places like Alaska or Montana.

Here in AK, I figuratively speaking hunt, fish and camp where and when I please. No signs, no hours, no zones, no nothing. My moose hunt is an easy example. Certainly I am required to have licenses and stamps, as well as abide by seasons and limits but everywhere is open to hunting and the season is a month long. I camp where I want and hunt where I want, noone there ahead of me, no off limits realestate, just go and hunt.

Its too bad every CA sportsman can't stay two years in a Butte MT, or a Sheridan WY or a Dillingham. You'd see what I mean and never put yourself under Gov. Moonbeams admin again.

I spent time in both and try to hunt WY every year. I don’t see that much of a difference (law wise) in those states. In WY it’s the same, but I have to wear orange. I don’t have to wear orange in CA but I can’t have a loaded gun in the car. But I cant use a 223 on a antelope/deer in WY, but I can in CA (not that I want to use a 223).

I’m not trying to compare states, but I found there’s little difference in hunting laws between states. Now game animal and numbers in other states is something else, and CA loses hands down on real opportunities, and to tell you the truth, if I moved out of CA I probably would not come back to hunt here....but the laws in CA are just about the same as there are in every other state I have hunted.

I don't know if it's such a good idea to start a game of "one-upsmanship" over who's state has the most reasonable / least restrictive laws. EVERY state has rules and regulations that can be considered overly restrictive when compared to other states.

For example, in my home state of Wisconsin it's perfectly legal to group tag. I can fill your deer tag and you can fill mine. We just have to be within earshot of each other (no radios or cellphones.) Try that in Alaska or Montana and you'll earn an expensive citation and probably lose your hunting priviliges for a few years to boot. But OTOH the WI deer hunter still has to wear a backtag that's almost as big as a vehicle license plate. How many other states still require backtags? Not many...

In Alaska isn't it against the law to hunt on the same day in which you've flown in an aircraft? To this Midwesterner, that makes about as much sense as the "Bible Belt" blue laws that forbid hunting on Sunday.

Doesn't Alsaka also have a peculiar (but rigidly enforced) law that says you cannot pack out a critter's rack until you've first packed out all of the meat? I'll bet that even CA doesn't tell a successful hunter in what order he has to pack out an animal's carcass (as long as no edible meat is left behind.)

I don't want to defend Ted Nugent but his latest brush with the law illustrates another bizarre AK law. Ethics, good sportsmanship and plain old decency toward wildlife mean making every effort to find and recover wounded game. But only in the "Last Frontier" will you find a law (apparently applied only in one management unit) that requires you to eat your tag if you draw any blood whatsoever.

New Mexico didn't require me wear blaze orange to hunt elk with a firearm Montana did. Utah takes it one step further and outlaws camo blaze orange.

It's easy to point fingers at places like CA and call them "Nazis" or "Nanny State" but in reality a look through your own state's regulations will no doubt uncover some strange laws.

quote:

In Alaska isn't it against the law to hunt on the same day in which you've flown in an aircraft? To this Midwesterner, that makes about as much sense as the "Bible Belt" blue laws that forbid hunting on Sunday.

Try again, many of the states that don't allow hunting on Sunday are in the North East and in Canada.

I a,m not pointing fingers or calling California anything other than a place where hunters are having their ability to enjoy their sport whittled away a little at a time.

Look at the folks that have hunted California in the past. It is really easy to not miss something that you never had in the first place.

You have been pointing all your fingers at CA. This is why I started this thread. You have never hunted in CA. You do not even know what the laws are in CA. You do not know what you are talking about. I know a lot of people that have hunted in CA in the “Good”O Days”. They have ever said “You used to be able to do this........You used to be able to do that….” The laws and rights we have in CA, are about the same in every other state that I have hunted....THERE'S NOTHING DIFFERENT......

Being proud of your state and willing to defend it is not a problem to me. Ignoring the fact that people are actively trying to stop hunting in your state, and are actually having some success, is your problem.

As for your saying there is no difference, what Big Game animals and over how much of the state? Can you go into a store and buy an OTC license to hunt any Big Game animals, even as a resident?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
As for your saying there is no difference, what Big Game animals and over how much of the state? Can you go into a store and buy an OTC license to hunt any Big Game animals, even as a resident?

Within 3 hrs from Sacramento (the area I live) I can hunt bear, deer (2), pigs, and bobcats with OTC tags hunted all on Public Land. A little stamp on my license allows me to hunt turkeys, quail, and dove in the same area. I’m not a duckhunter but my area is full of ducks and duckhunters.

The only hunts that are not OTC is antelope, elk, bighorn and the premium deer hunts.

Like I said before, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to hunting in CA, but YOU are the one that brings up CA in every-other post you make.

The real question ... Is Ca. with it's abundant resources managing its wildlife for the benefit of sportsman Especially hunters?
Do the majority of voters and politicians enhance our hunting opportunity?
On the present course where do you think we will be in the future?
Ca. predator population in the form of lion, bear, coyote, bobcat is thriving and that is good but at what expense?
Ca. has excellent bear hunting for now. We lost a season a few years ago due to political law suits. When will they be able to shut it down for good?
Monster deer used to be harvested every year from Modoc county all the way down into the Inyo Mountians. I used to live in Sacramento and hunted D5 extensively. Granted you can get two tags but the trophy quality and success are very poor.
I also hunted pigs around Clear lake, Indian valley reservoir, Humboldt,Sonoma county etc... on public land it is also very poor. I'am not talking private property with high fees.
Water fowl hunting is exceptional but you have to join an expensive hunting club many are in the $2k+ per season. You are restricted to a selected blind. Guaranteed the best ones are taken. If you hunt the refuge get there at 2 A.M. and hope you can draw a spot or go back home wasting your day, time and gas. I also tried the large pheasant clubs around Rio vista, knights landing, Dixon etc... When the bird dog catches more birds because they are too fat and pen raised it takes the fun out of bird hunting. Needless to say if I can't hunt free ranging birds that are full of challenge I'am not hunting. My shotguns have been sitting idle for quite a while.
If Ca. hunting is so great why do thousands flock out of state including us. Its about the quality of the game and the whole experience. When you pull into a town during fall hunting season out of state and they have a large banner across the street welcoming hunters how can you not feel at home. Show me that in Ca.

Other states have their issues such as living next to a monster class big game but it takes 12 yrs. to get drawn or possibly never but they have no problem taking your money or forcing you to buy a hunting license prior to applying. No wonder the national average for hunters has been declining. They are making hunting a a rich man's sport. I hope this post doesn't go uncivil about defending or bashing any state but be about enlightening all forum members world wide about honest facts no matter which way they roll. I live for the day when I can hunt constantly and burn the barrels out on all my guns. Scott King I totally get you. Best regards to all.
Charles

quote:

Like I said before, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to hunting in CA, but YOU are the one that brings up CA in every-other post you make.

I ain't the only one that has brought California and what is happening to its hunting over the past couple of years. Many times or most of the time it has been California hunters themselves that have made posts on here and other sites, asking for support from hunters across the country in the fight to save hunting in California.

It is strange, looking at some of the responses in this discussion, from people that are familiar with hunting in California, they seem to be painting a different picture of how they perceive things compared to the one you are trying to paint.

Why am I or anyone else bringing up California and what is happening to hunting in there? To get people to understand that the threat posed by the anti-hunting forces and the changes in attitudes concerning humans role in nature is REAL.

Trying to point out that elitist attitudes about what should or should not be considered hunting or who can/should refer to themselves as a Hunter is only helping the anti-hunting movement.

I used the term biggotry elsewhere, and that is something that is readily apparent among hunters toward other hunters. People see that someone is from Texas and they immediately equate that with not being a real hunter or having actually ever hunted. There are Texans that have never hunted a high fence place, there are Texans that do hunts on high fence places but also like to go out of state or out of the country to hunt in a different manner.

None of that matters to the elitist/biggot, all they think is, "That person is from Texas and knows absolutely nothing about "REAL" hunting", well, that is wrong.

How can people not vierw California in a similar fashion when it makes National/Inmtenational News, at least in the hunting community that a person, just because of their job is not allowed to have a Private Life and is going to lose his job due to participating in a perfectly legal hunt in another state, and the fact that California is going to or is prohibiting its citizens from bringing legally taken trophies into the state. Looks to me like California is trying to set itsself on the same level as USF&WS.

Personally I feel bad about what has happened/is happening to hunters in California, but as even they have pointed out, they simply do not have the ability to out vote those that want to take hunting away from them.

The whole point why I started this thread was not to tell people that CA is a great state for trophy animals, or its world class hunting, it was just tell people about our “Californian” hunting “rights”. Some people here think (and write) that we Californians have no hunting rights. Just from reading this forum a person from another state would believe a guy couldn’t even own a gun here, or go outside unless it was to hug a tree.

Mlfguns – the places and things you speak of are 100% correct. A big 4x4 is a rare thing in D5 and it seems the pigs are all gone around Cache Creek. Duck hunting is expensive but my brother usually gets his limit around some refuges in his boat, but all the other duckhunters I know do pay big bucks.

But with all that, I can still hunt in CA. I can buy my tags and go hunting. Every year I hunt outside of CA and I see not that much difference in the laws we have in CA. The laws in NM, CO, WY, AK, AZ and ID are basically the same. CA has no special crazy tree huger laws that effect me hunting. There might not be a “Hunter’s Welcome” sign but also there’s no one stopping me.

So this is my last post about it. I hope this has helped at least one person here. CA is not as crazy as some people think, and come deer season I’ll be walking around the Sierras with a rifle, a deer tag and a bear tag, there’s no crazy laws I have to follow and there’s no one stopping me. A few weeks after that I’ll be in Idaho doing the same thing, following pretty much the same laws/rules that I had to follow in CA.

When in doubt or despair, run. If California is such a great place why go anywhere else?

Does because you want to, or because regulations in other states/other states themselves are more "Hunter Friendly" play into your choices?

Why have I hunted out of Texas, because I want to experience what things are like other places.

Here we are pretty muchily "locked in" as to how we can participate in the activity. I do not view it as hunting, but I have no problem if someone else does and them referring to themselves as a hunter does not bother me one bit.

The point remains, it does not matter how "hunters" view the sport or the other folks that enjoy it, the anti's want all of it, in any form stopped, and in the end they are going to win, but the fight might last a little longer if we stop persecuting ourselves, and I do not see that happening.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
When in doubt or despair, run. If California is such a great place why go anywhere else?

Does because you want to, or because regulations in other states/other states themselves are more "Hunter Friendly" play into your choices?

CHC – can you f’ing read? I don’t hunt other states because they are more “Hunter Friendly”. Hunting in CA IS JUST LIKE HUNTING IN EVERY-OTHER STATE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. No matter how bad you want it to be different, its not. You have never hunted here, and you probably never will. I, on the other hand, have hunted in Texas before. I found that your licensing and rules are not that different from CA. Come over to CA and go on a deer hunt and tell me what laws/rules/rights were so f'ing different? You continue to talk about this and YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I hunt other states because I enjoy seeing other parts of the country and the world. And the reason I hunted in Texas was I wanted a Javelina on wall and guess what there are no Javelinas in CA. But I guess there’s no Javelinas in CA because they took away our hunting rights.

I have never had the desire to hunt in California, because NM/CO and Arizona are in the way.

If you are happy with things the way they atre in California, Good For You.

It is absolutely No Skin What So Ever, off my ass if hunting in California is shut down tomorrow, other than the fact, that if that happens, it will mean that the anti's will simply shift their efforts on to another state.

You ain't the only person that has hunted Co., NM., Wy., Id., Az., Ne. or Texas, plus 2 Canadian Provinces.

The thing you cannot seem to grasp, is that me and you have one thing in common, we both love to hunt, and the same people are trying to take that away from both of us. I am reaching the end of my hunting days, but, I don't want to see yours taken away from you.

I am glad someone in granolaville is hunting and hope you get to continue hunting. I get the impression that this latest prohibition is not a big deal----to you---because it does not affect you directly.
If you do not think there is a concentrated effort to diminish or outright prohibit you from hunting, you had better wake up fast.
CA already banned lead rifle/pistol bullets, Why ?
Have you actually thought a/b it ?
If you believe the "reasoning" on that load of crap, you are truly lost AND part of the problem. I hope not.

quote:

Originally posted by aliveincc:
I am glad someone in granolaville is hunting and hope you get to continue hunting. I get the impression that this latest prohibition is not a big deal----to you---because it does not affect you directly.

I give up.......

No one is asking or expecting you to give up.

When people give up because everyone does not completely agree with them, that just let's the folks tryinmg to take hunting from us, gain the upper hand.

A little adversity and you are ready to throw in the towel, that is just exactly what the anti's want!

quote:

A little adversity and you are ready to throw in the towel, that is just exactly what the anti's want!

You mean like all these guys who post a reply describing how they ran away from CA to another state because they didn't want to fight for what they valued.



Like AZ, where the same dynamic as CA exists, and they've lost a couple ballot measures. AZ is on the target list too for mountain lions, bears, the use of hounds.

Just as CO, OR, & WA were...........

And in each of those cases the forces who fought those ballot measures had to do so with a shoestring budget with almost no out of state funding. As opposed to HSUS and Co. who put millions into those campaigns from national sources.

When we fought Prop. 117, the mountain lion initiative in CA in 1990, there was very little funding from out of state or national sources that came in to our coalition. We came within 2 percentage points of beating it, if we were better funded earlier in the campaign we would have.

I’m giving up trying to talk to you and others. You have no idea what I have been trying to say this whole time. It’s not worth it anymore.

This year I’ll be hunting, voting, sending out emails, and participating. You guys can stay here and do whatever you want. Hopefully in 2 weeks I can see where I drew and start planning.

Good luck to you guys.

Skinner – Thank you. But he’s not going to understand it. Next month there will be a bill in AZ from HSUS to shut down bear hunting. Then he’ll come on here and say “That’s what happened in CA. They lost bear hunting in the 80's because people didnt care...” while CA’s bear season is halfway through it season....

No, CA I understand fully.

Skinner, I just do not have a problem with people realizing that they are fighting a losing battle and cutting their losses. That is the sign of a rational/thinking human.

Why stand around and watch something you enjoy, be taken away from you. Several people have stated that on the issues that concern hunting in California hunters and those that support them are outnumbered. What good does it do anyone to stand around, especially on issues like this, when a person can merely get up and move and find a place not so bent on taking something away from a segment of its population.

As the line in the song "The Gambler" says, "You Got To Know When To Hold 'Em, Know When To Fold 'Em, Know When To Walk Away, Know When To Run!"

It is called making an educated decision. If you want to live in California, yet hunt in other states, Go Fot It, I have no problem with that concept

quote:

Originally posted by CA Safari Hunter:
Skinner – Next month there will be a bill in AZ from HSUS to shut down bear hunting.

Is there a source where I can read about this "bill?"

Some how I have my doubts about the validity of that statement Tony.

This place is sad and funny at the same time. The “bill” was made up, to show an example of a typical response that would have been made by CHC about CA. The response was also made up, so I guess I have to also point that out. CHC really didn’t say that, but I’m sure he would have.

A person, that has read this thread, and the other, should have been able to understand that.



*********** Disclaimer - no real bills were made in making this post.*************

No. The response I made was not made up, I knew you were

I don't know about Tony's response, course, with him being an outdoor writer and from Arizona.

He may just want to be checking out your information source. You can address that with him.

As for me, I knew you were simply throwing out pure

No its true.......I saw it on the internet.....

I don’t know if my liver can take reading AR anymore.......

quote:

duckhunter but my area is full of ducks and duckhunters.

The only hunts that are not OTC is antelope, elk, bighorn and the premium

That's funny? (That's peculiar and not ha ha.) I have a good friend in Southern California and he bitches that he can't draw a tag to hunt deer. He's a pretty good friend and not one known for prevarication. So how come he has to draw a tag and you don't?
Paul B.

That’s because he probably never leaves SoCal. He can hunt D5 with 2 tags every year if he wants. Just like everyone else in the world. Northern CA has B and D3-5 zones that are over the counter and all you need to do is buy one at WalMart. X zone tags take some time to draw. C zones (also in NorCal) takes points to draw but not many. Some can even be drawn with no points.

Your friend can also buy a OTC AO (archery only) deer tag and hunt all A, B and D zones with a bow, with one tag. Thats a nice tag because when A zone closes and you didnt tag out, you can use it when D starts.

But it is a long drive for someone in SoCal.

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It is called making an educated decision.

And I'd call it pussing out.

Here's an important statement that is very telling,

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Why stand around and watch something you enjoy, be taken away from you.

Yes, why 'stand around and watch' when they could have fought years ago and prevented much of what we see today.

I hate to use Paul as an example but he opened himself up to it, he lost more outdoor opportunity by relocating to AZ from CA than he ever did to the antis in CA.

I know a lot of guys who've done the same thing, ie; moved to another state cuz' they 'just couldn't take it in CA anymore'. Pretty much all of those whom I've stayed in touch with admit they hunted and fished more when they lived in CA than they do in the states they moved to, like ID, WY, CO, AZ, and TX.

Reason why is that CA does offer a lot of opportunity, and where you choose to live in a state that is 1100 miles long and 200+ miles wide has a lot to do with what opportunities you have. That's where making an educated decision really comes in.

I have to laugh at the concept that AZ offers more and is supposedly a safe state. It offers less outdoor opportunity, and is probably less safe than CA, a lot less.

AZ already lost the use of traditional type traps on public lands via a ballot measure in 1994, and 2 ballot measures designed to protecting hunting/trapping were rejected by voters in 2000 and 2010. Add in the ballot measures to ban cockfighting and the passage of another ballot measure, the 'Humane Treatment of Animals Act', which banned certain animal ag practices.

So you guys think hunting lions and/or bears and the use of hounds is safe in AZ ?

If CA gave Paul the heeby jeebies he better start packing up his stuff in AZ. Cuz' "they" are already there and it's gonna get real busy in the next decade.

Which illustrates why statements like this...........

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That is the sign of a rational/thinking human.

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It is called making an educated decision.

Is complete and utter garbage.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
It is called making an educated decision.

You have yet to make an "educated" anything on this website.

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Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
It is called making an educated decision.

You have yet to make an "educated" anything on this website.

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You have yet to make an "educated" anything on this website.

Only in your meaningless opinion. Do you honestly believe that you are the final word on everything concerning this site????