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| one of us |
Quote: Chuck, My latest Win 70 was rebarreled/ blueprinted by a very qualified 'smith. He trued up the receiver face, checked the receiver threads for proper tolerances (they were quite within specs)& lapped in both locking lugs for full contact. The bolt face was trued up, scope base holes were checked for alignment and opened up to 8-40s. The rear bridge height is within proper tolerances, if it was not then Talley Mfg would have built me a nice set of custom bases for a modest sum. The feed ramp was polished by yours truely. I don't feel any welding or a new mag box is in order as it feeds dummy cartridges just fine (3 rds is fine with me). Matt sold me one of his excellent SS extractors which require no fitting. As for the slickness of the bolt I'm already quite happy - its plenty slick (and polished) and reliable for big game hunting. The trigger sports the newer tighter fitting pivot pin fom US Repeating Arms. It adjusts fine and is consistent. The safety did have a problem which was easily corrected, it was failing to engage the firing pin cocking piece. Not uncommon on a factory Win 70. The bottom metal is the factory 2pc, which was trimmed down by draw filing by yours truely. If I wanted a 1pc, then one of Matt's would get the nod. I don't care for the factory middle guard screw but know not to overtighten em. I'm staying with the factory unit for weight reasons. The barrel is a Pac Nor SS SuperMatch I purchased for $220, the chamber as well as the crown were polished. The chamber's leade angle is very gradual, a feature I really like. A BS gauge made from the excess barrel stock was provided also since I handload my ammo. Brad can has seen pics of some of this 'smith's work. As for scope mounts, I have a set of lapped Leupold DDs. I can easily swap scopes with a small torx wrench. Since you are the proponent of the Echols Legend, lets hear it from you on its virtues. And then please state how these additional features of the Legend are of benefit, I'm sure its quite subjective. How difficult is it to remove two guard screws? Myself and others are waiting........ MtnHtr | |||
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Blue, Your post is well taken. This is a public forum and I prefer to keep certain information such as my name, my contacts, location and other info confidential. There is such a thing as giving out too much information out on the internet. If you want, I can PM you some of the info you are refering to. Thats a nice feature of these forums. I'll also try to tone down certain comments as you pointed out, I'm sure some of these fella's cortisol levels are up! MtnHtr | |||
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MtnHtr, Quote: Sure BUT are you trying to use this as a reason for it being OK for Remington turning out J U N K. Why should anyone have to "upgrade" their brand new rifle? Doesn't the buying public have the right to expect the rifle they purchase to perform up to a certain standard? Quote: The handle "Lawdog" has nothing to do with the fact that I AM a retired LEO. As far as me "bashing Remington" I do so because of all the B.S. they put me thru on the last three Remington firearms I purchased from them. Why should I have to settle for one of their so called top of the line M700 BDL's that wouldn't group under 4 inches with ANY load, factory or reload, no matter what. Why should it take Remington almost a year to settle this matter and then only after I had my lawyer threaten them with a law suit? Why should I again, on another so called top of the line M700 BDL, be force to accept a rifle that the stock inletting job was so bad that it looked like it had been done by a monkey with a box axe? All Remington had to do was replace the stock YET it took them over eight months to give me a refund. I won't even go into the M870 Marine I bought for a duty shotgun that would not feed 3 inch shells. I would say I HAVE EARNED the right to BASH Remington at the expence of my own money and time. And as far as "Almost every SWAT, FBI and major law enforcement agency has at least a few Rem 700s on hand." goes, why not check and find out just how many of these M700's are still the same as when they came from the factory? I'll save you some time, the vast majority ARE NOT FACTORY. And are you going to try and tell everyone that those snipers that are seen taking out a felon or shooting the gun out of their hands is all because of the rifle they are shooting? You are not going to give credit to the shooter? Better give most of the credit to the officer pulling the trigger. By the way one of my jobs when I was on the force was that of S.W.A.T. sniper. Lawdog  | |||
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I'm just curious. If you have that much experience why do you need a lawyer to settle your affairs ? Especially over something as petty as this. You should have the experience to fix it your self if you were a SWAT sniper any place but mayberry. You should also know that a SIGNIFICANT number of those SWAT team rifles are left just as they come in their special configuration. You can thank the barristers you are so fond of retaining for that. I had a WSM that was a POS and several Weatherby's before I got a shooter. Thats life. Why not deal with it and move on ? Like the title of this strand says ....... | |||
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Lawdog, Your experience is definitely the exception and you know that. Savage, Ruger, Rem and Win can and do come with problems nowadays due to mass production. How would you like to do the same boring tasks everyday? Think you might slip a bad one now and then? I know I would! As I posted earlier, my latest Win 70 had a safety problem, was it unsafe? Of course it was -knowing Win would take forever to fix it, I fixed it myself. Does this mean I'm going to bash Win 70s? Of course not! I've replaced probably 5 or 6 Ruger Mk II triggers for friends due to 5lb+ pulls. Do I bash Rugers? Of course not! Savage 110s come with junk triggers also, recently they have improved em. Do I bash what is probably one of the most accurate out of the box rifles offered nowadays? Of course not. Awhile back, I posted my dealings with MRC and a defective S/A I received. Mine was a dud, I had to post this on the Gunsmithing forum to get their attention because of poor customer service. It was quickly resolved after that. Alot of members here have been happy with their MRCs, I was just one of the unlucky ones. Do I bash MRCs? Of course not! The action building market has never been easy, never will be either if you have an idea of just what it takes. (Don't ask me either, I'm not an action builder!) The Rem safety controversy Jorge brings up is BS. If one wants a lighter trigger pull than what the factory unit is spec'd with then replace it with an aftermarket unit. Its spec'd that way because of our litigous society, there's a reason why Rem and Winchester dab epoxy like material on the trigger adjustments, Ruger's is unadjustable (unless you take a file to it) its called litigation. Personally, I've had great success using Rem's customer service on past 700s but who knows in the future. I've had great success tweaking and upgrading Rem, Rugers and Wins. You received a few duds, get over it, it could have just as well been Win or Ruger. As for 870s, purchase the Wingmaster version if you want a good one. Those models are every bit as good as the earlier versions. We all know plenty of law enforcement agencies have used this reliable shotgun for decades. All the mass produced firearms makers put out lemons, the savvy consumer learns how to improve his mass produced product even if it means upgrading.If you received a dud, then upgrade it or sell it and move on. Firearms are tools, nothing more nothing less. If one has to upgrade a tool to obtain what he wants then so what? Is that a reason to bash a maker? And then boast how a high $$ upgraded unit of another maker is superior? (not that you did that, somebody else is guilty of that!) MtnHtr | |||
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Actually,three years ago two local cops in my town who are members of the special response team,took two factory M700PSS in .308 and shot their way in military and law enforcement sniper competitions,placing high enough to make it to the finals held in germany. The two rifles were stock with the exception of glass bedding and lightened factory triggers.Out of close to 400 shooters, they placed 2nd and 11th in the finals. All with two garbage factory M700's,shooting against custom rifles in the hands of military and foreign and federal law enforcement officers. Lawsuits in regards to the trigger issue,are a joke. In most cases it involves some asshole that violated the first rule of gun safety. They didn't have a fuckin' clue where the muzzle of their weapon was pointed. And anyone that is that careless,can't be relied on to determine wether there finger was on the trigger or not either. Law suits against remington are about as big a joke,as some lard ass that wants to sue a fast food chain for weight gain. | |||
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Blue, A couple quotes: "I consider D'Arcy's fixed scopemount to be the very best available for ANY money. AD" "But the American guys who make complete, best-quality bolt-rifles designed for actual, real-world hunting (not collecting) like D'Arcy, Gene Simillion, Dave Miller and Curt Crum, etc., are living almost on a different planet from any other riflemakers in the world, and these guys are turning out the best bolt action custom rifles ever created right now. The U.S. is still a nation of riflemen, and it shows........... AD " Blue, Naw.... thats not boasting is it? Thats an opinion! And this is not name calling either, a couple more quotes: ""Audacity"? You idiot, there was tongue in cheek in that statement and you know it! Drag your dirty laundry around somewhere else." CN "you've shot your own credibility right through the foot in the process of presenting all this Mamma's Boy nonsense of yours." AD So who was doing the name calling? Or boasting? MtnHtr | |||
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Thats true in regards to the litigation. There has also been a on slaught of litigation with in regards to "excessive" deadly force. This has centered around some thing as nominal as a premium bullet or hollow point. In turn this has put a end to a lot of the customized sniper rifles in many areas and has somewhat led to "standardized ammo" . In either event all of the guys I have known who are SWAT members were very competent with weapons, HUGE fans of the 700 and very capable of tweaking their toys into tack drivers. One thing all of the SWAT guys and X cops I know have in common......They HATE lawyers. | |||
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Mt-Htr: You seem to be pretty loose with your insults hiding behind your computer keyboard. I don't have to impress you or anybody else here for that matter. You and I might disagree on things, but I've yet to impugn your integrity. THe Remington safety IS an issue. Do a search here and on other forums and you'll find documentation. It is a FACT not BS, FACT that Remington has been sued and on more than one occassion for their safety problems. BTW, since you never bothered to read my initial post, much less look at the target, if we follow your logic, the fact that I spent half for my rifle as you did for yours, means the YOU bought a lot of {sic} Blue Sky when you paid 1500 bucks for your rifle huh? jorge | |||
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Chuckie, ya just had to go an do it didn't ya, get me started on those blood suckin attorney's. I have had two major bouts with attorney's involving accidents (big truck/little car), proven in court to not be my fault and these blood sucking motherfuckers still drag my ass though court wanting the big bucks. One is still pending for 2.6 mil and the guy was going 30 mph over the limit, no insurance, no licence and the the papers say he can't perform for his wifey as normal,I responded in court that for 2.6 mil I don't give a shit how fat and ugly his wifey is, for 2.6 mil I will take care of her  , the judge beat on the table with his little wooden hammer and told me that wasn't very nice but was honest.So, No , I don't like LAWYERS | |||
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| <allen day> |
Yeah, those are my opinions, and I'll stand by every one of them. If you don't like them or don't agree with them, too damn bad. If you don't like me, too damn bad. I've hunted where I've hunted to hunt, with whom I've wanted to hunt, and with the equipment I've wanted to hunt with for over thirty years, and all without your approval. I suspect I'll carry on in the same manner for the next thirty years, and also without your approval. I'll also post what I want to on these boards without your blessing or approval until the day comes that I'm truly sick enough of dealing with characters like you that I finally hang it up for good and spend that portion of my time in a more rewarding manner. What you need to do -- since you're so convinced that your less-expensive rifle built by a lesser-known 'smith is the full-equal of the stuff I've presented here -- is post photos of your rifle, complete with sample targets and a full description of its features, plus the name and background of the gunmaker in question, etc., and let that product and your ability to interpret it for what it is speak for itself. Let the members here decide for themselves something of its merits. Let's see if your gumption and conviction matches what you've carried on about. And if and when you do post materials describing your rifle, you can be sure that you'll have at least one guy who'll pipe-up and declare that his Wal-mart Special is "just as good" as your rifle with a blueprinited action, Pac-Nor barrel, etc. You can count on it! What this backlash thread of yours is really all about is your insecurity over financial matters as it pertains to hunting rifles. For some reason -- and we've had at least one imbecil around here before who seemed determined that his budget was going to become everyone else's -- you seem to be so shaken by this stuff that you'd like to, in effect, eliminate all discussions that involve rifles more expensive than you're willing to pay for. Which is a ludicrous position to take! You should go to SCI's annual convention sometime and see for yourself how much money many people are willing to pay for fine rifles and shotguns! You seem to be a very bitter and cynical individual, and I'm afraid Oscar Wilde had guys like you pretty-well pegged when he said: "THE CYNIC KNOWS THE PRICE OF EVERYTHING, AND THE VALUE OF NOTHING." AD | ||
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Jimmy I tell ya the truth friend. If my corp didn't have to pay the blood suckers You and I and a few friends could go to Africa for a month on my annual savings. I didn't bother reading the whole strand and probably never will. Like I said I have one 700 from the custom shop that is a damn fine gun. If I could get another like it I would take it on the spot ! The safety sucks but that's the only issue I ever found. Hell for that matter I wouldnt give you a plugged nickel for the Weatherby safety either. I bet it just gives those lawyers a big woody when they see a real gun like a old Winchester with no safety. Christ, I always thought I was the best safety. You know, dont point the gun at what you dont want to shoot or pull the friggen trigger when you dont want the thing to go BOOM !  I know I know, some one has to protect us from our selves  The only REAL question I have.....is there ANYONE doing a safety conversion or improvement on the 700 ? If not I'll keep using it like it is to shoot those 1/2" groups with just about any factory ammo. | |||
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I think your opening line on your first response to this thread speaks for itself. You chose to respond....... MtnHtr | |||
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[quoteRemington turning out J U N K. Boy, do I feel like an idiot! Now I have to throw away 30% of my rifles. Do I have to put back all the game I've taken with them? This is nothing but a "my dick is bigger than your's" contest. If someone feels real good because they have "the best" and want to spend the money, go for it. But it doesn't make you any better than the rest of us low-life, factory-buying, junk-using dummies.  RMK, I'm starting to agree with you again. Stop the reasoned responses, will ya? | |||
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| <Guest> |
Chuckwagon and Jimmy This is a gun forum so I don't want to get into the "hating lawyers" debate too much, and I certainly can understand your positions because there are a lot of crooked lawyers out there (those that steal from their clients or those who do not give adequate representation to their clients). But there are some good ones out there (including me who most of the time takes nothing from the clients). You have to remember that the lawyers are the mouthpieces for the client's position in most cases. In your particular cases you should be badmouthing the client's positions rather than the lawyers themselves. The laweyrs are not the factfinders. They are advocates. If you feel that your particular set of facts is not being seen correctly by the other side, then go to a factfinder (go to trial) and prove your case. Mountainhunter and Allen Once again, you guys are throwing a lot of mud that doesnt' support your positions with regard to guns. Way too many personal attacks on both sides. In the end you will both dislike each other when in fact if you knew each other you would probably be friends. Again, I don't get the sense that Allen is bragging about his ability to be able to own guns that are a bit more expensive than most, and I also don't get the sense that Mountainhunter is insecure becasue he doesn't own guns that are more expensive than most. Both of you guys are expressing opinions about the other guy that you cannot prove becasue they are subjective. Let it rest. Blue | ||
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Sorry blue but this part is WRONG lawyers are the mouthpieces for the client's position More like the POS lawyer wants 1/3 of 2.6 mil and will do anything to get it including lieing and anything else that will line his fucking pockets Your trying to tell me that this POS is doing the right thing when his client was found at FAULT in the accident And last but not least, would he work this hard if he was court appointed with a set low fee. You really don't need to answer that as we all know the answer Now, why would anyone work for FREE, Did you marry into $$$$$ I know alot of goofy people but even they don't work for FREE Please enlighten me as to why anyone would work for free I got it, your tombstone will say, He was a good man that worked for FREE | |||
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blah blah blah. Did you read that on a web site some place or did you actually pay to learn that drivel ? I dont know about you being a good guy ....even if you do say so yourself  I do know one thing. There's nothing wrong with some counslers. It's just the other 99% that give you "good guys" a bad name.  | |||
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| <allen day> |
Blue, I didn't start this thread, but I'd say that anyone would have to be playing dumb or else be absolutely blind not to see the motives behind its inception. This whole dung-fest began because of what? Because I started a thread illustrating and describing a product that evidently shook ol' Mtnhunter up because of its price, and he just couldn't quite come to grips with it, and evidently still can't. So my act of creating that post became some sort of crime against Mtnhunter's self-esteem, so he decided to strike back as best he could. It became a short-sighted money issue instead of an issue of true merit and true value. IF THAT WAS NOT THE CASE, THIS ENTIRE THREAD THAT WE ARE EMBROILED IN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN STARTED TO BEGIN WITH. And I believe that truth speaks for itself. Another truth that speaks for itself is that this whole exercise has been a complete waste of time and a farce, as so many of them like this end up being. AD | ||
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Jimmy and Chuckwagon Good to see you both up and chipper on this fine Sunday Morning. Jimmy, I guess I am not totally clear about the facts of your case. If you were found not negligent, and it is the other side's lawyer that is asking you for this money to line his own pockets, then I would agree that he has a stick up his ass sideways. Otherwise something just doesn't seem right there, and I think there must be something else going on that I don't have the facts on. No, I didn't marry alot of bucks. But about 75 % of what I do is representing poor and disadvantaged people on a volunteer basis. I do it from my home so I can keep my costs way down. Every once in awhile a paying client comes in the door so I can keep the wolves away. For example, I have a criminal trial this week that might help pay the bills for a week or two. Chuckwagon You know, I doubt very much that more than about 3 percent of all lawyers are crooked. The trouble is that those 3 percent get big headlines in the news and everyone seems to store those stories in their mind for a later date when the conversation about lawyers comes around. Here in Minnesota we even had a Court of Appeals Judge who sidelined as a trustee for an elderly woman. He stole over $300,000 from her and lived in a fabulous house with lots of fine art and other neat stuff. But he got caught a couple of years ago and is now sitting in jail where he belongs. Suffice it to say, most of the crooked lawyers eventually get their ass caught in a sling that they can't get out of. Blue | ||
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3%.....Give or take 96%  | |||
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allen, this really doesn'tboil down to your Legend as MtnHtr would probably bash a Miller or any other custom . As I have said before I'm happy for anyone that has a nice custom built to their spec's, reguardless of the maker. | |||
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Allen I would agree with you that much of the thread was a waste of time. That of people hurling insults at each other to be precise. But not all of it was a waste of time. Far from it. The parts where people were actually talking about guns, including the parts where you talked about your Legends, and the parts where Mountainhunter and Jorge and everyone else talked about their guns was also not a waste of time. Please do not become bitter over what you perceive to be a bad expereience here. I, for one, and I am sure many others, really enjoy hearing about the equipment that you use, and about the hunts that you are able to take. The way I see it, if one cannot do, one cannot at least have enjoyment from reading about others that do. But I also enjoyed hearing about Mountainhunter's experiences as well. There will always be those who will be jealous of what others have. If you feel that is the case here, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But don't let that opinion embroil you to the point where it isn't fun for you to post on HA anymore. Both of you guys are way above this B.S. stuff. MOVE ON. Blue | ||
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blue, simple. He was found guilty and at Fault in the accident plus no insurance, speeding in traffic court but is suing for pers. injuries to the tune of 2.6 mil. And I am chipper every morning | |||
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Jimmy Coorect me if I am wrong. You were involved in an auto accident with another fellow. He was found to be in the wrong in traffic court in that he was speeding, etc, and he was actually convicted. Now you are in civil court and he has sued you. As part of the negotiations they are asking you (your insurance company) to pay 2.6 million. And the civil case has not yet gone to trial? Or has the civil case gone to trial and you were found to be not negligent by the factfinder (either jury or bench trial)? Blue | ||
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blue yes, it is awaiting trail, they say I am a hostile witness imagine that. My insurance is trying to settle out of court not wanting to go to trail. worried about the costs involved and a bleeding heart jury So now maybe you can understand my feelings towards Lawyers | |||
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Allen beat me to it. This thread was started with the intent to personally attack individuals who post here. The intent was to flush out Remington and Stainless Steel bashers, and attack the personal integrity of certain, pretty specific, individuals, was it not? As for the Remington bashers, who cares. I mean really. The Stainless bashing angle has really proven to be a non-existant issue and was originally based on a misrepresented quote directed to a pretty specific individual. It was hateful and misleading. Finally, in the original post, another individual who also posts here from time to time was personally attacked. On another forum that MtnHntr frequents, a member who has some clout there quite recently posted a picture of a number of (24) SS 700's. Nice to see. They look used, enjoyed, and affective. But my question is, what is the difference between owning that many "$1500" (that number is a complete guess) rifles, and owning one, two, or three $7000 rifles? Priority and preference. That is it. My arguement is not with individual choice, but with the entire tone and intent of the original post. Those who think it wasn't personal from the beginning, weren't the ones personally pinpointed. It makes a difference. I originally had decided to quit this forum, but have mixed feelings about that. Allen, I hope you stick around, I really do. I know many, including myself, who enjoy your experience and advice. Chuck | |||
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| <Guest> |
Jimmy Your beef should not be with the lawyer. Your beef lies with your stupid insurance company (maybe their lawyer) for wanting to settle the case. If it were me, and I had a criminal conviction on the other side, I might try that case to a verdict. Part of the problem is that most states, probably including yours, have what are called comparative negligence statutes or comparative negligence common law. That allows a jury to determine different degrees of negligence between the two parties ( in a sense to compare the negligence between the two parties) and then to assign certain percentages of negligence to each side. More than likely (and I am just guessing here) the attorney for your insurance company believes that a jury might look at this thing and assign some negligence to you even though the other fellow was speeding. As for the "bleeding heart" jury, your lawyer should be able to take care of that if he is competent in the art of Voir Dire. Since I don't know the whole set of facts for the case I won't comment further, except to say that in personal injury cases one third of the award is usually the standard fee agreement when a lawyer takes a case on a contingency basis. Lawyers do that to try and make up for the many cases where they don't get a damn thing. I don't agree with it myself, and that is why I quit doing personal injury after the last case I won a few years ago where a lady fell and broke her hip at her dentist office. Chuck Same thing to you as to Allen. Don't become embroiled over such a little thing as a few insults on AR to the point where you leave the forum. Hell, If I would have become embroiled after all of the insults ol Jimmy slung at me I would have been gone a long time ago!!!! But Jimmy is also a great teacher and one thing he often says is very true. If you want to dish it out you also have to be able to take it. This is a great forum. Stay and have fun!!!! And be sure to come on and show us all that new custom rifle you had built!!!! Blue | ||
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Ive owned several good 'ol 700's. No complaints, really. I hate almost all factory triggers on all rifles!! A worked Rem. trigger is suitable..sakofan.. | |||
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One of Us |
Yep I am awakening this old thread. But it is plain and simple that thousands of animals ever year die just as dead to rifles that probably average anywhere in the $400 to $1,000 or so range. Truth is a heck of a lot of those rifles are just as reliable as many of the high dollar custom. Although they may not have a $2000 dollar piece of wood on them the $400 to $1,000 rifle kills the animals from prairie dog to elephant as the $10,000 rifle will. Anyone that says other wise needs to get their nose out of the air, because we wouldn't want you to drown if it rains. There are also some factory rifles that have their share of problems as well as the high dollar custom can have its share of problems also. Personally I had rather buy a good reliable rifle for a reasonable price and spend the thousands left over towards another hunt or something. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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I agree. My favorite big game rifle is an ole faithful 700 chambered in 7RM. I purchased it as a cheap ADL at Wally World for $350 Bought a used HS stock for $150 some Leupie mounts for $40 and placed a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 on it(won on ebay for $455 shipped). It will routinely shoot 1/2MOA at 100 yards and just under 1" at 200, has a fast bbl, and functions flawlessly. Haven't ever felt underclassed with my cheap ole rifle on any hunt. A very small sample of it's success:     Don't think I'll retire it anytime soon. Oh yeah, I bought a used Abolt in 7RM and a Nikon Monarch gold for the grand total of $665 last year. Last time out this spring it put 3 at .6 on the 200 yard target 2" high, dead center. I hope the guide doesn;t frown when I drag it out this fall on my Mulie hunt.... Reloader | |||
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| One of Us |
I had a M700 Clasic in .300WM that would shoot that good and I didn't have any $1500 in it. | |||
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In 36 years of hunting I've only had one gun fail in the field. . . . . . . . . . . . A Remington. The bolt handle came off.  I had to use my back up gun (another Remington) to finish an Elk hunt. I got the broken rifle fixed and still shoot it. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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What's so special about that group. If I have a rifle that doesn't shoot at the least that good I won't hunt with it. Unless my shots are going to be very close. Just about any factory rifle I own or have owned will shoot that good. and they cost a lot less than $1500. Heck my handi rifle in 7mm-08 will do that good and that cost what $200. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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Jerrod, I will say that those groups are nothing special (I'm with you there) but still....plenty good for big game hunting. What would you concider "very close" to be? | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't really know a yard estimate for "very close" but put it this way if it didn't shoot at least a group similar to the one in the pic I would use it as a woods rifle so to speak. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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First of all let me apologise for mispelling your name. Now, I'm going out on a limb here with a little technicality. SOME rifles and or loads will shoot better way out there than at 100 yards. I'm not trying to start a fight here or flame but merely pointing out a fact that if you realy want to know what a rifle is capable of at say 300 yards or even 600 yards you have to shoot it at that range. A 1 inch group at 100 yards does not necessarely mean a 6 inch group at 600 yards. | |||
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I agree with you 100% "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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