Cold Zero, you have a PM........

It's amazing to me how many guys around here have a whole safe of mediocre rifles, and these guys don't hunt anywhere but here in Oregon. The way the system currently works, most of the time you draw a mule deer and/or elk tag every other year, so while you're waiting for the ODFW to throw you a such a bone, mostly what you get to do is hunt paper at the range and collect more hunting gear that seldom or never gets used. But these guys see Oregon as the center of the hunting universe, and it's hard for them to get out of that cycle.

To heck with that kind of program. I'd rather have just a few high-quality rifles that I'll really hunt with, and I'd much rather spend the money on hunting trips out-of-state and out-of-country rather than on more gear. Hunting experience is a lot more meaningful, and comes a lot more dearly than "stuff".........

Somebody asked about building a light 375 H&H, then loading light bullets, going with the heavy 300 gr. loads only when you need them. Again, why build your one-rifle battery around a cartridge that -- out of the 27 big game species N. America offers -- is only truly necessary and useful on brown bear and walrus?

That's sort of like keeping a sledgehammer in the tool locker as your only hammer for all purposes, from driving carpet tacks to roofing the house, and all because some day you'll need that sledge for splitting wood, and because you're too blinking improvident or theory-bound to purchase a couple smaller, more widely-useable hammers that'll see a lot more use than that sledge............

Actually, I once owned a very, very light 375 H&H myself, which was a Remington 700 KS 'Mountain Rifle'. It was a nearly impossible rifle to shoot well, because the recoil was absolutely horrendous with any load you put in it, and the rifle was completely unshootable. It was a contraption, a drawingboard theory gone mad, a sarcastic joke that leaves no one smiling, a piece of impractical junk that you couldn't trade off fast enough.

In North America, you need a smaller large medium-bore (sounds like a contradition, doesn't it?) if you want a portable, useful, shootable hammer, and in Africa you need a rifle that is balanced, holds steady off-hand, and has some weight to soak up recoil, and to help facilitate rapid sight picture recovery from recoil for a fast follow-up shot. A light 375 H&H is no good as a mountain rifle in North America, and it's no good in Africa, either. Light bullet loadings in 375 give up a tremendous amount of SD and BC anyway, and the truth is, the only light bullet loading that is a value is the 260 gr. Nosler Partition, and I personally Like 270 and 300 gr. loads better for all-around use. Those bullet weights make the 375 into the iconic legend that it is.....

If you want one-rifle-for-all-purposes in the form of a large medium-bore, and housed in a light, well-balanced, shootable package, the 338 Win. Mag. is your tailor-made huckleberry. It's useful for any and all N. American game, as well as all of the world's big game except for rhino, elephant, hippo, and African and Asiatic buffalo. And if you can afford to hunt those animals, you can surely afford one more good rifle that's truly suitable as life-insurance for that handful of big, dangerous critters, and chambered for something bigger than 375 as well...........

The 338 Win. Mag. has the same trajectory as the 30-06, and it's a whole lot more versatile as well............

AD

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
kutenay:

Proven fact is the 30-06 is THE NA, cartridge, and it's been proven for 100 years.

220's in a 30-06, while not ideal,do give you a bear round.

Wasn't the 338 originally called the OKH, in honor of Elmer Keith, among others?

338-06

And what about the 35 Whelan, if your going on opened up 30-06 cartridges?
35 Whelan

GS

The .338WM was introduced to the market as "The Alaskan" back in 1958. It took time for it to gain popularity up here, perhaps because the original bullets were a little on the soft side, but now with so many bullets available, it's up there with the .30-06. One thing is for certain: When "bear" enters the picture, most Alaska hunters grab the .338WM and leave the others at home.

The problem sometimes with the 338-06 and some of the wildcats is finding cartridges in the middle of Alaska, or the Northwest Territories. If you do a standard caliber, such as a '06, or a 300Win, .338 Win you should be fine. Also the 7mm RUM and the 7mm STW are dying breeds. I don't think you will see much of them in 10 years.

quote:

Originally posted by sierrabravo45:
The problem sometimes with the 338-06 and some of the wildcats is finding cartridges in the middle of Alaska, or the Northwest Territories. If you do a standard caliber, such as a '06, or a 300Win, .338 Win you should be fine. Also the 7mm RUM and the 7mm STW are dying breeds. I don't think you will see much of them in 10 years.

OK: So the win mag started on the 375 H&H case, chopped to 2.5 inches, just a hair longer then the 30-06 case, at 2.494". So, you can use standard length actions, and, the round is nearly as popular in Alaska as the 30-06, so ammo is all over the place? What's the cost of the ammunition, and, what sort of rifles do you guys use in that caliber?

While not a real american cartridge, what about the 9.3 X 62mm Mauser? Looks similar to the
Win Mag,...
I'm also not enthralled by a cartridge that works up to 64K. Can we say excessive recoil?
gs

I think between the two 7s it would be about a toss up although the .30/06 is my personal choice. I have a lasting dislike for long barrels when the landscape goes vertical so most magnums don't hold any interest for me.

I think the whole bear thing has been a little overcooked and in the event I choose to hunt one of those critters it will be with a ctg./rifle dedicated to that hunt, just as you would have a DG rifle for Africa.

For everything else either of the sevens would do just fine. I'd probably look at which hand loads better.

Regarding lost ammunition let me give you the short version of something I witnessed a few years back. I was killing time at the boat launch in Circle, AK. waiting for the mail plane that would take me up to Eagle. I was a day early so I was just sitting around reading in my truck when a crew cab pickup towing a pretty good size aluminum river boat pulls in and the guys start transferring gear from the truck to the boat. This went on for a very long time and they transferred a ton of gear. When they attempted to launch the boat it just never came off the trailer, never even tried to float and before anybody could do much it had the back half full of water.

The Yukon runs by that place at a pretty good clip, around 5 miles per hour if I remember right, and although several of us tried to catch the gear coming down we missed most of the stuff. It was just flushed out the back.

The pickup was lucky to just be holding it's own on the launch and another 4wd pickup grabbed on with a chain. Still no good. Eventually the fellow that owns the store there brought his Cat down and drug the whole dang mess up the launch where the water was drained off.

After settling up with the guy with the Cat these guys headed back towards Fairbanks to resupply. I went back to reading and waiting. I woke up the next morning to see their pickup and trailer in the parking area.

I went over and had breakfast with the guy in the cafe and he said they found what they needed in Central and didn't have to go all the way to Fairbanks (160 miles of gravel each way) which would have essentially lost them two days of hunting.

From what I gathered they had lost their ammunition with the other stuff out of the boat but they did find something in Central that would work, but only for two of the four rifles. The decision was made to share rifles rather than lose any more time.

The license plate was from one of the Dakotas if I remember right so they had plenty invested in this hunt.

Lesson here I guess is that sometimes things just get out of hand and, although you can work hard at having nice neat rows of ducks, every now and then bad stuff happens. When that happens to me I hope there is an over the counter fix somewhere close that will bail me out.

DJR

Guys we need to GET OFF this one rifle for everything issue. It has probably accounted for more threads and posts than any other shooting issue I know!

To cover NA, I would never try to do it with one rifle! - Don't have to! - Not gonna!

Two rifles = 270 Winchester and a 375 H&H (maybe reamed to 375 Wby)

Three rifles = 25/06, 308 and 375 would cover antelope, deer, hogs, etc. to griz.

allen, check your p.m.s

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:
Two rifles = 270 Winchester and a 375 H&H (maybe reamed to 375 Wby)

Yes, the PERFECT .375, the .375 Weatherby. Lawdog

I was in a similar situation and will go through my thought process. I think a lot of guys are like me.

It was only after I finished with grad school and worked for a few years before I thought I was able to take a few hunts. In the last several, I have gone on an adventure or 2 a years. I am hardly a well-seasoned hunter, but I have been to Alaska, various states in the west and southeast, Texas, and RSA.

I am married with a stepdaughter and plan on having one more. I am not rich, but I make an upper middle class income and live fairly cheaply. Luckily, my wife has a similar outlook to me and we prefer travel to a bigger home or a fancy car.

Even still, after living expenses and saving for my retirement and hopefully the chance to leave children a decent start in life, there is a limited "fun budget" that can be easily exceeded with a single hunting trip.

The gear and trip both come out of these funds, so I had to make a choice. Although I would love to have a large variety of rifles, I have always chosen the trip rather than the rifle. After my primary rifle was stolen, I was faced with the choice of replacing it within reasonable cost. The chambering was wide open. I faced this very decision. What would be the most appropriate caliber to cover the vast majority of the hunting.

I scanned through all the ballistics tables, made a realistic evaluation of my shooting and the level of recoil I wanted, and looked at loadings available for each cartridge. I selected the 30-06 as I felt it was the most versatile and, after shooting at long range, felt it was as flat shooting as my abilities. I felt I could hunt anything up to moose with it comfortably.

Next was the rifle. I found a deal on a new Rem M700 stainless and bought it. Here is where some nostalgia came into play. My Dad had several of them and it was a joy when he let me use them. Also, subjectively, I was actually only going to use the rifle for the action. It seems everyone and their brother can make an accurate M700 and I never had the feeding issues associated with push feeds. I planned on sending the action out for a blueprint, a Sako extractor (maybe), coating in Robar NP3, then attach a new 22" select stainless barrel, and a good stock. And to top it off with a good scope.

As it happened, I was a little disappointed in the rifle when I received it. Some of the machining was rough and the clearance between the lugs and the rails was sloppy. It was not of the quality of my Dad's older guns. Luckily, the lugs seemed to seat firmly with even pressure. I feeds fine too.

I attached rings that were available on hand and mounted a Nikon scope I had bought on a discount. I shot the rifle with four loads I had on hand. Winchester premium 168 gr ballistic silvertips, 180 grain partition golds, and 180 Rem core-loc's, and Hornady 150 grain interlocs. The 180 grains shot to <3/4" with the silvertips to about 1/2". The 150 grains shot all over creation.

I sighted in the rifle in for the partition golds, adjusted the heavy trigger, and went hunting. I never moved the sights for years. The cartridge/load combo has killed everything so far with authority, the biggest animals being elk and kudu. I have shot 15 species of big game thus far with it. I sometimes use the ballistic silvertips for deer or smaller critters.

I do feel any of the 270-30's would have done the same. My personal preference is towards big/heavy bullets, thus my choice.

I feel well armed for anything except dangerous game. My rifle felt a bit puny when I saw an Alaskan moose, a grizzly, and an African eland up close and personal, but it would do if I did my part.

I often wished for a short 308 carbine when stand hunting deer. I have often wished for a lighter rifle when serious climbing was involved. I think a specialized long range rifle would be warranted for some hunting I have done (pronghorn, mulies, elk in open terrain). I have more practice to do before I can outshoot my rifle though. I have NEVER felt my rifle was inadequate.

Things I would do different. After handling most common bolt action rifles, I would likely chose a Sako if I had it to do over. Just personal preference but I love the action. I would hand select any Remington/Wichester I bought, even if it cost more than ordering. I am still planning on some customizing. I want my rifle to be able to spend a week in Alaska without worrying, even if I have to snuggle up to cold plastic and live with an ugly rifle. It HAS to feed. From reading around here, I feel I might have gotten lucky in that respect. I have cycled the action 100's of time trying to make it jam. It will feed slow, fast, at 90°, or upside down. It will short stroke if I work at it. I would rather have 1 proven rifle I can depend on then 10 that I have any doubts about. I would attach a QD scope mount and carry 2 scopes on trips. I would have a very bright 50mm scope for local deer (where in my side by side testing it really does make a difference in that last 10 minutes), and a more compact scope for the vast majority of hunting. Maybe a cheaper target type scope for range work and plinking at longer ranges.

FWIW, I do plan on dangerous game in Africa. I will go through a similar process on the rifle in either a 416 Rem or a 375 H&H. Those 2 will cover anything. Maybe not perfectly, but will do.

Only other comments I would have is that as I have branched out in my hunting from my southern Louisiana swamps roots, I have to say good binocs are the key to successful hunting in many areas. As is having passable gear. I now order my gear priorities as such - decent gear for any weather, binocs, scope, and then rifle. Chambering, as long as reasonably appropriate, would be last.

Allan
Good post.
If you can afford to hunt "all of North America" you can afford more than ont rifle.
While I have shot more pigs and deer the last few years on my deer lese with my "elephant guns"
A more realistic look finds me with the following choices for NA.

For general use for deer sized game I like the 308 WCF. Anythjing I could do with the 270 to 30-06 I can do with a 308.

When the game gets bigger [elk] or farther away, and the success of an expensive hunt may depend on one shot I move up to my 300 Win Mag.

For the big bear in Alaska or even for elk or moose in thick timber I would use my 375 H&H.

For Africa I go to doubles, but that is a different story.

If I "had to, or just wanted to" do it with one rifle, the best choice IMHO would be a 300 Mag or a 338 Win.
But, I just might go off the deep end and take my 9,3x74R Chapuis Double Rifle.

Metalman
Thanks for the post I'm in a simular situation, with family and finances. It's good to know that every body on AR isn't a trust fund baby buying a arsenal with sombody elses money.

As for as the CRF that is just a AR cult issue most people have never had a push feed malfunction or know's anyone who has. So don't let the ravings of Ganyana (Who hates all things american except our money) and his Moonies trouble you.

Also from the swamps of Louisana
Dr B

An all around rifle is a dream, or, a stubborn subject of people who love to argue. There are reasons for a variety of sizes in bullets and cases. Openning a thread with "which 7mm is better for all around cartridge" is to me obviously crying out for an arguement.

Favorite caliber? I would happily hunt the rest of my life with an accurate 7 1/2# 30-06. I've taken truck loads of game with mine from 10# groundhogs to 1000# Brown Bear with mine. The paranoia about brown bears is way overblown.
The number of Alaskan guides who have chosen the 30-06 as their personal using rifle is as long as your arm. Are there better rounds ? Sure, but it will do the job very well if the hunter is up to it. On all the rest of N Am game -- there should be no question.

458win
Thanks for the post I agree with you on the 30-06. The first rifle I bought at age 12 (with my money) was a 30-06, that I still have. I would have no problem hunting any NA game including BB with it.
The original Question was two parts 1. which is the better cartrage 7STW or 7RUM. 2. by default would the winner be a good one gun for NA. whiched turned into a debate weather one of the big 7's would be adequate for BB. I tend to belive that either of them will do anything a 30-06 or a 300 win will do. I'm not being negative about the .308 cal's which I own many of several of which are 30-06.
I would apreciate your input as to weather you would hunt someone that wanted to use a 7mm and would a hunter without a guide backup be OK with one of the 7's.
Thanks for your input.
Dr B

Doc, unlike most other respondnat's I've "tried" to stay within your parameters even though I'm a 30-06 devotee ( ).

Since a fast 7mm is your desire I still believe the 7mm RM is the more practical choice for a travelling hunter. Ammo is available EVERYWHERE. Seriously, that be a should be a real consideration even if you're a handloader. Sooner or later you'll wish you could stop at Walmart in Anchorage for "7 em-em" ammo. If a 160 grainer at nearly 3,100 fps can't get it done than you'll need one heck of a lot more rifle than a 7STW/7RUM or even 300 WM.

Ballistic charts are great for toilet side reading but most can't even begin to take advantage of the marginal increase the 7 STW/RUM offers of the RM.

OK, off the box...

quote:

Originally posted by joecool544:

So I would have to say the .378 Weatherby shoots flatter than the .338 and double the horsepower at all ranges.

Joe;

Have to disagree with you here.

Most brown bears are taken within 100 yds. why do you need a flatter shooting caliber, if you are only likely to shoot 100 yds. that your guide is likely to allow?

most guys are not as good of a shot as they think they are and that is why, many guides knowing this use that as one of many reasons to keep shot distances short.

i'll bet that you could only fill a phone booth with guys from this site that could under field conditions accurately in all positions shoot and handle the recoil from the .378 wthby to the fullest extent of that calibers range. it is not practical for most guys, in most situations. very few guides even use it for their application that it is better suited for. They are better served with a large slower moving bullet.

again, i agree with kutenay. many guys would buy the .378 for the macho factor and then finding that they can not handle it would sell it. hopefully, before getting scoped or worse yet, making a poor shot on an animal and having it get away. Hellacious recoil.

i hunted with a guy that bought a .30-.378 wthby as soon as it came out to take on a brown bear hunt. i thought this was a poor choice to begin with. had he taken one on that hunt he likely would have been the first public citizen to do so. he came home with nothing.

the following year, we went to oregon hunting columbia blacktail. he saw a great buck at close range and fired quickly wounding the animal and not recovering it. he was badly scoped in the process.

from there we went to kodiak island, where he refused to ever hunt again with the .30.-378 and instead used his backup gun a .270 win. i watched him from across a valley shoot another buck in the chest and that buck too escaped wounded. a bad 2 week trip for him for sure. in fairness to him the guy is a better than avg. shot.

the bottom line is when he returned home, he sold the .30-.378 wthby and listened to me and bought a .338 w.m. and has been very happy and successful with that ever since. because he can shoot it well and is not afraid of the recoil.


If i had to choose just one gun i would go with either a winchester or remington in .30-.06, then send it out for a trigger job and glass bedding, crown the muzzle, etc. glass would be zeiss conquest 3.5-10x44m. 3.5 is low enough power for close range shooting and anyone that needs more than 10 power for big game hunting is either shooting too far or does not know what he is doing. i actually prefer 40mm.

I agree with Brad, I'd rather select the garden-variety, widely-available 7mm Rem. Mag. over the 7mm RUM or 7mm STW any day of the week.

Long-term, the 7mm Rem. Mag. will prove to be a better investment, and quite frankly, I don't think the other two are going to be long for this world.

AD

quote:

from there we went to kodiak island, where he refused to ever hunt again with the .30.-378 and instead used his backup gun a .270 win. i watched him from across a valley shoot another buck in the chest and that buck too escaped wounded. a bad 2 week trip for him for sure. in fairness to him the guy is a better than avg. shot.

Hmm better than the average shot!!!That’s questionable Maybe he needed to stick with the .270 tell he mastered it’s recoil.

By far, the majority of rifles I have built or barrelled over the years have been what might be termed "all around rifles". Calibers have ranged from 6.5mm on the small end to 358 Whatever on the big end with most being 7mm to 30 cal. Most multiple-gun owners end up with a bunch of medium bore rifles one of which might end up being their go-to gun. I am no different in this respect and whenever I think about building a new rifle for myself (which project seldom gets past the planning stage, I might add), I usually am thinking of a 7mm or a 30/06 or something of this nature.
If I wanted to build a 7mm I would be inclined to go with a 280 Remington over anything else. Why this over a 7mag?, you might ask. Well, I think it is more efficient, the cartridge is more compact and mag capacity is greater, and ballistics are adequate for any hunting most are likely to do. If more power is desired, the sensible move is upward in caliber to a .30 of some description.
While my own record of big game kills borders on pitiful, I've gotten reports on perforance on thousands of animals from customers for the last 30 years. Virtually all who were shooting 7mm's, from the 7x57 up, proclaimed satisfaction with the performance on everything from whitetails to moose. Those who were happiest were those who were shooting the smaller cartridges (7mm-08, 7x57, 284, 280). Those least content were those shooting the bigger sevens. I suspect this to have been because the shooters of the small cartridges expected nothing more than a clean kill while the others expected the animal to turn a flip and land on it's back and were disappointed when all they got was the same kill as the other guys.
I have a pretty good idea of the mental anguish that many go through when trying to pick a rifle and caliber because I often go through the same thing. All of you probably know the drill. You look back at the last dozen animals you have shot and it is apparent that you would have been well served by a 7 pound 308 Winchester. Then you start thinking "What if?". What if the only chance you get is at a big bull at 400 yds? What if you run into a big, angry grizzly? Well, chances are, it ain't gonna happen! I have mentioned before that I most often take along my first rifle which is an old #4 Lee-Enfield now in 30-40 Krag. Not really much of a rifle, it has, nonetheless, accounted for the majority of animals I have shot. There has never been a situation where it's perceived inadequacy has limited my success. This does not mean I think the ideal North American rifle is a 30-40 Lee-Enfield. It only shows that, when it comes to enjoying the hunt, there are other things which may be more important.
To get to the original question, I think both the 7STW and the 7 RUM are stupid cartridges. They are bigger than they need to be. They are inefficient and powder wasters. Of all the rifles I have mentally built for myself (and remember, this is usually as far as it goes!) neither of these cartridges have even been a glimmer in the murkiness which is my mind. The 7mm Remington has. The 300 Winchester has (even with it's stupid short neck!). So have the 7mm and 300 Weatherby.
I thought the 7mmSTW was stupid enough at it's inception that it must have been two years before I finally got a reamer after so many asked for rifles in this chambering. That I subsequently must have made at least 30 of the stupid things, only shows that people are more likely to believe Layne Simpson in print than Bill Leeper in person!
So what would my choices be?
If a 7MM, my first choice would be a 280 and second a 7MM Rem Mag. Reverse this if you don't handload.
If a .30 cal, my fist choice would be a 30/06 and my second a 300 Win. Mag.
For a bigger caliber, my only choice would be the 338 Win Mag. as the most prctical of the larger-mediums. Regards, Bill.

The one gun do all is just nuts to begin with. IMHO one needs a varmint rifle .22 caliber or .224 than he needs a good Deer round I like the 25-06AI and the .257 Weatherby both of these guns have little to no recoil. Than he needs a good Elk rifle I like the .300 Weatherby it’s my go to rifle. Any 300 or .338 will work well for Elk. But than again so will many standard calibers. It all comes down to bullet placement.

If I were to go after a brown bear I would probably take my .340 Wby or .338 Win or maybe my .350 Rem. I really have no interest in shooting a bear I have killed black bear’s and had a rug made I don’t want another one. I would rather shoot a Moose or caribou something that’s good to eat.

j.c.544;

if the guy could not hit the broad side of a barn, i would be the first one to say he sucks.

he does shoot the .270 win better than anything else. i think more guys should be more concerned about marksmanship and shot placement than the newest latest "magnum". he killed a lot of animals with that .270. at least i got him to use the 150 gr. n.p. with that set up. previously he used the 130 gr. i hate small light bullets.

anyone could have a bad 2 week trip. the one that got away on kokiak was due to poor bullet selection, not shot placement. i say the hit with my own eyes. the one in oregon was poor caliber selection.

i wonder how many guys that are choosing the .338. w.m. as their one gun would mind the wieght of it on a sheep or goat hunt since there is only one gun...

I make my living cleaning up messes caused by self proclaimed excellent shots and experienced hunter on Brown Bear hunts. In over twenty five years the over whelming majority were caused by the hunter using a rifle he could not handle.
When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensable scope I know he is going home with a trophy.
I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego.

quote:

When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensable scope I know he is going home with a trophy.
I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego.

Phil Shoemaker

I like it!

If you are absolutely looking for ONE rifle, and are absolutely including the big bears, then .338 WM. If ONE rifle and maybe the big bears than something in .308, either .30-06 or .300 mag of your choice. If you are stuck on 7mm, then I agree with the others that said get a 7mm Rem mag and go from there. I like the idea of two good quality rifles that could go anywhere, i.e. .30-06 (which you already have) and .375 H&H or .300 mag and .416/.458. Then you are ready not only for N. America but anywhere in the world.

Cold Zero makes an excellent point concerning the weight of a .338, but, this is not a huge concern to me on a Goat hunt because the Sheep, Goats and Elk all inhabit much the same area where I hunt. In fact, I have encountered Grizzlies up in Goat country fairly often and so have former colleagues of mine when we used to do the remote, wilderness fire lookouts. So, I have come to use a Kifaru Gunbearer on all of my packs and find that I can pack my .338s and .375 with this quite comfortably.

I am leaving Friday for another crack at those pesky Whitetails and in sub-alpine country where their numbers have increased tremendously these past few years. The single, largest Grizzly I have ever seen was in the area I am going to and there are lots of them there, so, the .338 just feels good....must be getting old!

quote:

When a hunter shows up with a well worn 7mm or 30-06 and a sensable scope I know he is going home with a trophy.
I don't have a minimum caliber I require a hunter bring but anything less than a .270 is a stunt and anything over a .375 usually ego.

Well said.I also get tired of hearing people telling everyone that you need a 338win or 375h&h for moose.

If you spend too much time reading this stuff you might get convinced the 30-06 is a relic and you need a 300 mag plus for a caribou!

Maybe we could put in a proposal that the 30-06 with a fixed 4x scope should qualify for a primative weapon hunt.

Hey I like that idea! Heck lets say any fixed power scope without a 50mm objective qualifies for antique status on a 30-06!!!

quote:

Maybe we could put in a proposal that the 30-06 with a fixed 4x scope should qualify for a primative weapon hunt.

And after reading the advertising for the wsm cartridges we could include the 7mmremmag and 300winmag as primitive cartridges as well.

Personally if I were to choose an all-purpose rifle for all game under all conditions in NA it would without hesitation be my All-Weather M77/MkII in 30-06 with a good 180gr bullet. I like the option of heavier bullets too if necessary and the 7mm's top out at 175gr if I'm not mistaken. The '06 will let me use 200's and 220's also if I so desire and I like heavy bullets personally - 180 is the lightest I use in the '06.

Phil is right, the guy with an old, battered, silver-worn '06 is the one I'd put my money on, not the guy with the shiney $3000+ wonder-Mag...

And yes, my M77 '06 wears a fixed 4x compact scope so sign me up for that Primitive Hunt, lol.

J.Y. Jones hunted the continent with one 30-06 - see his web site http://www.jyjones.com and his book "One man, One Rifle, One Land," - pretty good read.

The 7mm STW and 7mm UM are a bit overbored and may prove finicky (though that is no certainty). The 7mm Rem Mag will be a better choice for the travelling hunter as you can find factory ammo most everywhere should the need arrise. The 7mm is a good caliber for most hunting applications though it may be a bit light for the big bears of the North or Bison. If your guide is backing you up with a big boomer it may not be such an issue. Of course, if you can fund an Alaska bear hunt you can afford a second rifle in a more substantial caliber such as 338 or 375.

Wait a minute! Aren't the anti's suggesting we limit ourselves to one gun per month? Why are you doing all your hunting with one 7mm when you are supposed to be buying one gun per month?

I really appreciate all the great advice that has been offred on this topic.

My brother and I have decided to go with the 7mm RUM. I just picked up a Sako 75 SS w/ Syn stock that I loike the looks of, I have not shoot it yet. I think my brother has decided to get a Rem 700 XCR also in 7mm RUM.

I strongly considered the 300 RUM but the recoil is more than I want in a gun I will shoot often.

I'm intrested in the Lazaroni 120gr lazerhead for hoofed game, and the new barnes 175gr TSX for Big Bears and african carnivors.

The new TSX has the folling specs. SD -.310, BC - .530. At 3200fps this load will produce almost 4,000fpe. Like I have said I have no experince with Bears or any other dangerous game, but it seams like this kind of preformace should be enough. These numbrs equal or exceede the 338 win. in every catagory.

What is your view in light of these numbers?
Dr B

One more vote for the 338 Win Mag. I think it would be a better choice.

As much as I like and have used a 7mm Ultra Mag I don't view it as an all around caliber. If I were shopping for that "do it all" caliber I would opt for a 30-06 or a .338 Win Mag. if you don't mind a little more recoil. Either of these can truly "do it all", especially if you reload. I see you have determined upon the Ultra. In that case I would recommend the 160 Accubond over a huge amount of Retumbo. It is a real killer. Understand you will have to handload as the factory stuff won't begin to do it all or even most of it. For the bad or really big stuff look at Swift's A-frame. Good hunting.

Too funny.

I would never select either of those two myself, but every time someone says "one gun for north america" the conversation takes a very impractical lunge toward Kodiak bears and life threatening situations like that needs to be the basis for selecting said rifle.

Fact is that for the average North American hunter there are very few stiuations that a boring old, barely adequate 270 Winchester wont handle quite neatly with one shot, and that has been proven long before we had the amazing plethora of bullets available to us today, which IMO makes the 270 variety that much more legitamate for covering the bases.

When you are ready to do something as exotic as a coastal Grizz, do it right and get a rifle just for that hunt, that will make it that much more special. In the meantime I suggest putting aside Coastal Grizz, Cape Buffalo, Elephants and space invaders and think about what you will really be using it for.

I would have to say 338-06.

My vote gets cast for the 8mm Rem Mag. Everything from 125-250 grain bullets covers every animal in North America. It shoots flat enough with lighter bullets to reach way out there. even with the 175 grain bullets it is nearly as fast as the factory 300 RUM. and with the heavy bullets like the 220 swift and 250 woodleigh there is no questions to whether it would kill the biggest bears.

All this talk has got me thinking of putting a new, longer, tube on my 8mm rem.

Brett

oops, double post.

Well, I can't be a "one gunner", so always travel with two, a .284 on a 600 action, and the mauser actioned 9.3X64. I've always felt that was all that was needed for any situation in North America, period!
My suggestion to everyone else inquiring is always "Just get a good 30-06, some premium 180 grain ammo, and shoot the hell out of it until you thoroughly know the gun and it's trajectory."
The bottom line is that you have to place the shot and accept your limits.
~Arctic~