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| One of Us |
WOW! differences abound. I joined a Arkansas hunting board to get rut info for when i hunt that area. i join in and post every once in a while. It amazes me what some people see as "ethical" behavior. Now some people have argued w/ me here over ethics becasue i have said publicly that i have used a family members tag. I got blasted over at the AR forum for saying that if a man shot a deer and found solid blood but didnt recover the deer or recovered it days later he should burn the tag. I got totally blasted from these guys. Now i almost got booted off the site for suggesting that shooting deer from inside a truck cab was unethical. a hunter decided since the weather wasnt to his liking he would pull his truck out onto the field and use it as a blind. in Arkansas as long as the truck isnt in motion its legal. any way i thought i'd link you to the thread i just started about ethics. it should be a real riot. enjoy ethics thread on Arkansas forum | ||
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It's easy to confuse "ethical" with "legal" or "tradition / custom". It's not always easy to see the difference at first glance. JMO, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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One thing you must understand. When you start telling or suggesting to others how they are to live their lives coupled with absolutely no authority to do so and hanging your opinion out on the internet, you are going to catch a little heat. Every action does not require reaction!!!!!!!! Sometimes silence is bliss. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Your link requires me to join before I can view the thread. Discussions of "ethics" are the most pointless on the internet. All you end up with is a bunch of name calling and harsh posts, and nobody comes away thinking or conducting themselves any differently than before. If we as hunters could adopt and practice the "I hunt my way; you hunt yours" philosophy instead of trying to force feed our "values/methods" on fellow hunters, that due to culture or just training, don't hunt exactly like us, we would all sure get along better. | |||
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amazingly enough it has remained civil all morning. i predict that things are just about to pull apart at the seams. i expect w/i the hour the barbs will come out. | |||
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Ethics are a very personal thing. Everyone pretty well has a different set of ideas on what is ethical. They may agree on some (or many) things but will likely never agree on everything. As long as it is legal, you can own up to the consequences and can handle the criticism you get from others I say go for it. I don't have to respect/like you and I don't have to agree with you. If enough people get together and decide something is unethical the law will change. | |||
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You really don't get the distinction between ethics and legality. It is illegal in Arkansas to use another person's deer tag, family member or not. Why don't you go up to a Arkansas Game Warden and tell him that deer in your truck was killed by you with your Dad's tag on it and see how "ethical" the discussion becomes? Meanwhile you can tell us how unethical Texas hunting is..... xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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do you hunt from inside a truck as well? over a feeder, too? thats the difference between whats legal and whats moral. how is fair chase involved after the deer is dead and tagged. i'd rather hunt w/ someone who didnt hunt over bait or inside pens than w/ someone who cared whos tag was on a deer after it was dead. | |||
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This topic is going down hill fast. The discussion starts out talking about ethics of hunting and now morality of hunting, and the one who has actually committed an ILLEGAL act is the one casting stones. I love internet message boards!!! | |||
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Shooting on someone else's tag is illegal everywhere tags or permits are issued. There is a name on the tag and that person is the only one who can use it. It is like letting someone use your car and claiming it as their own because they are in possession of it. How hard is it to follow the law? That is not an ethical or moral question... | |||
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the letter of the law doesnt always dictate morality. the shooting of penned deer under corn feeders is morally corupt, lacks the ethics of fair chase and is legal because of the amount of revenue it brings in. the use of a tag that another person paid for is illigal, granted. but how does it corrupt the chase? no you can white wash corrupt behavior by attempting to disprage another but we all know what the truth is. the LAW aint always whats right and just becasue its on your side at the moment doesnt make you moral. | |||
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Is hunting from a blind ethical? If so, does a blind have to be constructed of local materials? Does a blind have to be dragged to its final site or can it be rolled? Does it have to be rolled by hand or is engine power allowed? Must the engine be separate from the blind or can it be permanently attached? Can the blind have any other use besides a hunting blind? Just wondering. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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maybe you ought to borrow a drivers license too I mean the state got their mony and your dad doesent drive that much anyway right what differance could it really make.  stephens just replace the word moral and the word ethical with the words feel or feelings because that is what you are talking about. how you feel about a subject. you are right you can not legislate morality but if enough peoples moral code or personal ethics are in agreement they are usualy written into some kind of law or ordinance. you have a broader view of what is canned hunting than does the law or many other hunters. canned hunting is illegal almost everywhere but you want more. or more specificaly you want to use the canned hunting thing to beat up people you dont agree with. you post a picture of a really nice buck and talk about how you scouted and sat up for him and that all seems ok to you but if you had done all that and then sat in your truck it would somehow change things and then be unethical? If thats how you feel about it great but please cut the b.s. your real problem is class envy and the hate of people with more money than you. once upon a time deer were measured by points and outside spread only and that was enough then all the guys who wanted to pimp out hunting to make a buck started letting the mony do the talking on when where and what you could hunt also the big buck costs big bucks. thing came into play and the deer started to get realy big and the new boon and crochrot club measureing system allowed rich guys to beat you every time so being unable to win at your own game anymore you and a lot of other people started measureing your prowess by the amount of misery you had to endure instead of the size of the animal killed. you walked further or higher or sat more still in the driving snow whatever it is all to change the rules of a game you cant win. who shoots the biggest deer rich guys thats who. the differance between you and me is I dont really care who shoots what it is a contest only with myself to me. I shoot representative males so do you that is enough. you give me the measurement of your g1s and I give you the finger good trade huh. I let go of the anger and bullshit long ago. I will never have the money to spend on a monster whitetail hunt or some big mony ranch hunting deal Im not sure I would spend 5-20 grand on a fing deer hunt if I had it to piss away. much less the million dollar deer what a joke. hunting in the way I do is part of my heritage and has been done the way I do it for many generations well longer than all this phony big deer dick measureing contest mentality has existed. I am not bagging on you man but the moral compas of the comunity you hunt in is set down in the game laws and those laws are black and white wether you like them or not you do not get to pick what laws you follow and what laws you dont. break the game laws and you are a poacher. not a big deal to you then not a big deal to me. VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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Technically, ethics means simply what is accepted as the usual way of doing something. Moral connotes what is good or bad for society. So, something can be ethical in one part of the country, and repugnant to people in a different region. | |||
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legal means it's been questioned enough that there's not a law against it Ethical means that most people, in public, don't feel it is wrong Moral is what you do when you KNOW no one is watching. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I have found that the more experienced a hunter is, the more he understands and accepts hunting methods that differ from the way "... we hunt back home ..." The more experienced hunters I meet, the more this theory is confirmed. It is typically the inexperienced, uneducated hunter that will question common hunting practices in areas outside of what he has experienced. | |||
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I think that the title to this thread, provided by KS, is pretty telling. Yes, there is a great diversity of "ethics" (read hunting practices), generally resulting from differing local conditions and customs. This diversity is only "amazing" when one doesn't understand the differences in local conditions and customs. | |||
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WHat Mr. Reich said.... | |||
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KSTEPHENS asks a good question and that is " How does using someone else's tag corrupt the chase?" Let me explain from my prospective as a retired Conservation Officer and Wildlife Manager. Game departments set the number of tags to harvest the surplus crop of animals with a secondary goal to spread the resource out over as many hunters as possible. The tag doesn't give you the right to an animal but gives you the right to hunt for that animal. When you use someone else's tag you are taking more than your fair share and you are depriving one or more other hunters of the opportunity to hunt for an animal. The law is designed to keep a few greedy hunters from taking a disproportionate share of the resource. My opinion on hunting methods is that the only moral authority we have to reconcile with is our own conscience. We develop our moral compass about hunting based on how we were taught by our hunting mentors when we started to hunt and by the laws in the states where we learned to hunt. These can vary based on where we grew up. I have my own does and don'ts when it comes to hunting. They are mine and I don't expect others to follow them. I do expect others to follow the law and if they are not satisfied with the law then seek to change the law. That is the American way as described in our constitution and laws. For instances you can't imagine how many true trophy animals I have passed up in Africa because my conscience tells me that it is taking unfair advantage of animals if I see them from a vehicle and all I have to do is step out and shoot it. On my first day in the African bush the first animal I saw was a 43 1/2" sable. I wouldn't shoot it much to the dismay of the land owner. My moral compass said to me that I didn't dream about hunting the wild bush of Africa for many years to shoot such a magnificent animal from the road. I suspect most of you would have and if your conscience didn't tell you it was wrong then it wasn't wrong for you. 465H&H | |||
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oddly enough i dont find your jab to be insulting. i suppose that because the fact that you operate a high fence operation puts your opinion on a very low scale in my book. from Red Bluff Ranch..."Stand hunting is the primary method used to hunt Whitetail on Red Bluff Ranch. Stands are placed over productive food plots, travel routes and around feeders in order to maximize the hunters opportunities." it must not just be inexperienced hunters like myself who have never and would never set foot inside one of your farms. you see, in my book a man who has a finacial interest in a high fence operation is much worse than a poacher. he is a thief and makes his money selling property that is stolen from the people of the state. | |||
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Yes, there are a lot of differences in ethics. I think maybe discussing hunting aesthetics might sometimes be more productive -- not questions of right and wrong but questions of beauty and ugliness or seemliness and unseemliness. I have some hunting aesthetic preferencs that I'm guessing others are not in agreement with; similarly, I bet others have some hunting aesthetic preferences that I'm not in agreement with. I personally do not like hunting deer whose habits have been influenced or have been attempted to be influenced by changing their food supply -- planting food plots, putting corn in a certain area to try to get the deer habituated to going to that area. It isn't like I won't hunt under such conditions, but I prefer not to. I think that hunting means learning the patterns and behavior of the deer on your hunting ground and accommodating your hunt to that learning, not bending the deer to your preferences. I know others feel differently or think this is irrelevant. I think it is a personal matter. | |||
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So Much Material, So Little Reason For Using It. It has already turned into the continual, "My Ethics and Morals About Hunting Are The Only True Ones, And Everyone Else Is Wrong". I am beginning to believe in the concept, that with some of the attitudes some folks have towards other folks idea of what is or is not hunting and what is or is not ethical, hunting does need to be shut down. We have the Original Poster of this thread, openly admitting to using another persons tag, which is clearly illegal in most states, yet he can set there and find fault with some one doing something that is perfectly legal, sitting in the cab of a pick up and shooting a deer. How can any one expect any kind of intelligent and resonable conversation out of a person that clearly, by his own admission, will do something illegal, yet bad mouth some one else for doing something that is legal. I guess that because he feels that since his hunting ethics and morals are so high, breaking a game law is his right. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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wouldnt that be great for your buisness? trust in this... people baiting deer people fencing deer people geneticly manipulating deer is what will kill it. not, someone who shoots a deer on someone elses , already paid for, tag. And with lease prices rising and private land owners afraid to allow hunters on thier property for liability reasons, operations like yours and red bluff will be living it up, right? | |||
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Possibly because it was not intended for you. It was a general statement about hunting experience and tollerance for methods that are not common in one's own backyard. It was a general reply to the subject "Amazing diversity in hunting ethics", which is a very truthful and accurate statement. I have no idea who you are or what your experience is, but I do see now that my comment must have hit a little close to home. Sorry for that, but it doesn't change what I have seen and experienced. As for me, I will sleep soundly at night knowing my opinion does not matter to you. After all, currently, I have only hunted on 3 continents in 9 different countries. If you want to throw fishing into the mix, make it 4 continents and 13 countries. I will get back to you when I get some real experience. Good day sir. | |||
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I don't see any deer poaching in Arkansas listed on that resume. What a greenhorn!  ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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What do you know about my operation??? Did you know that it takes place on a 20,000 acre low fenced ranch? Did you know that it is all spot and stalk? No all you know is that it takes place in Texas. All I know is that ethical hunters are also law abiding hunters, and you have been quite adamant in the fact that you have no regard for state game laws. How anyone that is a confessed poacher can question anyone elses ethics is beyond me. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Minnesota Law: PARTY HUNTING • A "party" is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; and all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery. • Any member of a party meeting this definition may kill a deer for any other member of the party who has an unused tag valid for that deer.
With the extended Elk season in Mt, I have the right to hunt 2 more weeks. Nice, I just like hunting.  | |||
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Yes and no. The problem that we as hunters and shooters do need to work on our public perception. Do I know people that shoot from a truck cab? Yep, and it is legal in some places. But that is a great way to have some PETA freak cause a lot of people problems if it becomes common place. | |||
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In some states (Iowa for instance) party hunting is allowed along as every one in the party has a legal tag. SO you can fill another guys tag, but once you do that he can't hunt any more. The law is that way because of the popularity of drive hunts here (which I find distastful and dangerous, but don't scream that much about those that do it). | |||
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NEJack I am not picking on you, but the hunting from the truck cab reference has been blown WAY out of proportion. The reference was about a guy using his vehicle as a blind instead of getting into his stand because of bad weather. The way the description was worded he was not driving around "road hunting". I don't see why this has stirred everyone up. If the guy was driving around on public roads and shooting game from his vehicle, I would see where public perception would be an issue, but that was not what was described here. | |||
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NEJack ansd Snapper, The party hunting laws in your states don't apply here because KStephens poaches on the tags of a person who doesn't hunt any more. His dad buys the tags for Kstephens to use (according to the way he described it in other threads). Dad is at home while Kstephens poaches the deer. Bottom line is that Kstephens is a poacher that disregards all laws that he feels are not to his liking. Then he trolls here about baiting and high fences in Texas. If your hunting dog is fat, then you aren't getting enough exercise.  | |||
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Boy, Shottist don't sugar coat it, tell us what you really think! GWB | |||
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trypically wrong again. my father hunts everyday that i do. he is allowed 4 tags and will, if needed, put a deer on his tags for me so i can continue to hunt with him. were you got this idea in your head is unknown to me. perhaps it floated in from your colon since thats were your head is and its a purly BS statement. show me were i said that he didnt hunt or that i ever used tags purchased by someone else for me and i will NEVER POST ANOTHER WORD ABOUT HIGH FENCING BAITING OR OTHER. good luck Mr. 40 post tryin' to make a name for yourself of my back. | |||
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Each State has a set of rules for hunting. If it is legal in one State but not in another, so what. If it is legal and in the hunting rules, it is legal hunting. There is no ethic or morality issue involved. Just what you perceive to be ethical or moral. Ethics is a personal thing. Everyone has a different set of ideas on what is ethical, and choose what they feel is right, but they should not impose there way of thinking on others as long as it is legal. Morality is what you do when no one else is around and in my opinion is not an issue when it comes to hunting, if you fallow the laws put forward. When I am hunting and I follow the laws from the DNR, who has the right to say what is unethical or immoral. Some guys just need to get a life and leave law abiding hunters alone and quit trying to push your personal feelings on others. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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I have given this even further thought. Let's look at it from an anti-hunters point of view so to speak. An anti-hunter thinks all hunting is unethical or immoral, no matter if it is legal or not. But not one of you including me thinks much of there opinions on hunting. So what would make you any different than them, if you try to push you self imposed ethics and morality on others. Sound like someone is talking out of both sides of there mouths. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Another thread that was opened with the express purpose of starting a pissing match. Who gives a damn what KSTEPHENS thinks is ethical? A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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jstevens: I think you hit the nail on the head. And it sounds like he enjoyed stirring up crap on the Arkansas forum as much as he seems to enjoy stirring up crap here. | |||
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While I agree we need to work on our public perception, playing by PETA rules is a losing game. It is the hunting and killing they hate and want to stop. Giving in here and there on things that are legal is foolish. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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