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Planning a guided hunt in Colorado, near and on Gunnison National Forest, Oct 2017. Taking my old reliable Rem Classic in .270, and a RSM in 375 H&H. I will carry 150 grain loads for the 270, would the 260 Accubond be a good choice for the .375? Both are wearing Leupold scopes, and am very confident with both rifles. Thoughts and advice? | ||
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A 270 is a little light for an Elk. | |||
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There is no bad bullet choice for Elk in the 375 H&H. For the 270, I used a 150gr Nosler Partition to great effect from my first big game hunt in 1970 or so, until 1992, when I started to use Barnes bullets. I now use the 130 TTSX in my 270, and have yet to recover any Barnes out of a big game animal, even Elk. They have all blown threw the animal, and the animals fall down, dead. | |||
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I would shoot the 270 and leave the 375 at home. Modern bullets expand to approximately double their initial diameter... There is going to be no difference between .56 ripping through the vitals and .62 ripping thru the vitals. I would find a load that with a 150 premium bullet in your 270 that shoots well and know where that bullets hits from 50 to 350 yards. I mean actually know by shooting the distances. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The 270 is ok the 375 is ok both if the bullets are placed right both well kill elk with out trouble. Take what ever one makes you feel good. | |||
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Really? How many elk are in western CO? Maybe I need to go there as my Idaho elk hunt was the lamest hunt ever: a road hunt with zero elk! Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Ive shot more elk with a 270 and 30-06 than any other caliber.. Today I prefer a .338 win., The only reason being at times elk that are shot with the 270 and 06 seem to run a little too far or into a bad place, and Ive seen elk run long distances, take quite a few hits and even seen a couple escape with the 30-06 over the last 5 years. Ive seen a movement locally to the .338 in Idaho and Montana for whatever reason and not always poor shooting but mostly when the shots are beyond 350 yards it seems to me. They don't seem to make 25 yards with a 225 gr. or 250 Nosler accubond or Partition at those ranges..Just my 2 bits but like it or not the bigger calibers kill better at long distance, so if one can stand the recoil its certainly a good option, and the .375 is a real killer,Uve used it on about everything in Africa and its an awesome killer, and if something runs you will have a good blood trail..Some tend to overlook the importance of a good blood trail, its very important and two hole helps.. What Im saying isn't written in stone but I think Im correct. Ive notice over the years that the bigger the caliber the more dependable it is if one can shoot it.. Then again I wouldn't be destroyed if someone handed me and 06 to go elk hunting, or a 30-30 for that matter, Id just get closer. Im not one to talk probably since Ive killed elk with a 25-35, 30-30 and 250 Savage, but only at up to 200 yards max best I recall.. Todays elk hunting is damned expensive, and time is limited to most, one may have to take a long shot, and it may very well be the only bull he sees.. I have had to take long shots the last 3 years. In the years gone by most of my elk were shot at 100 yards. Today on a paid hunt, I would recommend one use all the gun he can shoot reliably with a good premium bullet...That may very well be a .270 or 30-06. in which case place the bullet and pick your shots..Most locals, ranchers, guides, around here can do that. Most like myself shoot a cow for meat but even that is getting harder every year. Bottom line is to each his own. where you hunt should pretty well determine which caliber you use. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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When did this take place? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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140 grn Accubond at 2900 fps Through the lungs and 40 yards later the biggest cow elk I will ever kill in my life died.  I would bet the .270 Win shooting any 130 grn or heavier bullet with proper placement will kill elk dead 101% of the time ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Two weeks ago--Oct 10-15. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Was this the guy who was connected to the eleven page contract thread? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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No, this will be a first for me, planning on booking a hunt with Bar k outfitters, in the Crested Butte area. (Area 521) Since it's a bucket list hunt, I figured to take both rifles, if the 375 is too heavy too pack I'll use the 270. I've seen the arguments for years, but if I had a choice, with a once in a lifetime hunt, I would want the most thump I could deliver. On the other hand, I have a lot of faith in that old 270, I'm sure if I do my part, it will fine. But, can anyone give me first hand experience with the 260 grain Accubond in the 375 on elk? | |||
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I started the thread on Mark Young's 11-page contract. Mark introduced me to the elk outfitter but I did not book with him due to the contract. The elk outfitter soliticed my business after Mark emailed him that the hunt was not going to be booked. I booked with the outfitter directly upon his contact and the outfitter paid a percentage directly to Mark for the introduction (actually, he said he would send Mark some funds). Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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So to be simple......yes? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Hi Ted: Yes. I answered as I did as I did not know if you were referring to myself or a gent with prior postings. Cheers, Cal PS. I remember your posts, Ted, and you were very much against my thread on the contracts. I apologize if I offended you in any manner. _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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The thread that you started with questions about a lengthy contract didn't offend me. It was very educational to say the least. The pile-on was predictable.....and disappointing I am looking forward to reading your Utah elk hunt report. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Sorry to hear your elk hunt was a dud Cal. As for a .270 for elk, I've killed 2 with a .300, 1 with a .50 cal muzzleloader and another 10 with a .270. But oh wait yeah, a .270 is just "too light" on them! 150gr bullet on a .270 is great! | |||
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par4rick: I believe Dad used a 270gr and likely a C/L. Back in '68 to kill a bull elk at about 70yds one evening. I was there and saw it happen. Bull was mostly facing us coming up a hill, he'd just come in sight. Dad hit it just inside the point of the shoulder, the bull looked like he backed up and then sat down and tipped over. I don't recall the kicking part as it was just about the limit of daylight and we were within five minutes of hanging it up for the day. He was damned well WHACKED hard with that handloaded .375. The bullet exited the far flank with a 3-4" exit hole. Those were the days when elk could be stalked while out in the open eating of a morning, or coming out to eat just before dark. Today, most of what I've seen the past 15 years hit the open on a hard run and don't slow down til they're back in timber and it don't matter how many miles that might be either. All due to so many asshole's shooting half mile or more at the sight of game. IMO "long range" shooters should be kicked in the ass and both license and guns taken away. I've never hunted that area so can't give any info. Hiring an outfitter/guide they should know the area and the game's habits there. You should feel comfortable with it. These days bullets are so much better than in the 50's 60's & 70's, your .270 should do fine too. It never ever hurts to take a back up rifle of your own that you know how to shoot. Never had one fail me, but, I've had to loan my back up to a few guys over the years that didn't have a spare gun. I started tagging along in '56, carried my own '06 at age 14 in '58 and killed my first bull that season. Where I hunted was among the old time "elk killers", they wouldn't let anyone hunt elk with less than 180gr in an 30.06 on their area. BUT: bullets were nothing a person could really count on much of the time. I've seen quite a few of both: blow up's on the surface and punch cal sized holes clear thru. That's mighty rare these days. I would recommend using a heavier bullet though, 160-170gr. Best of luck to you, hope to read about it here. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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Is a .270 light for elk? I guess if one has a .300 or larger, yes it is. My uncle was a guide in the Wrangell Mts. of AK from 1948 to '64. In 1953 a client gave him a .270 WCF in a Weatherby rifle as a gift/tip. For moose, caribou, sheep, and grizzly/brown bear my uncle's only rifle was a .30-30 carbine, Model 1894 Winchester. The hunter thought my uncle needed something more powerful. That .270 was an amazing rifle for someone whose only rifle to date was the .30-30. I recall Winchester Silvertips were his favorite bullets to use. The .270 (3-digit serial number) is on my rack as I pen this. I would use it for elk or moose. I don't know about elk, but I've shot a few moose and they are not that difficult to kill. Cheers, mates. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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This is one data point only, and I have posted it previously on this site. The only bull I have killed I shot in 1997. I shot it with a 150-grain Speer Grand Slam, at a distance of roughly 200 yards. The bull took every ft-lb. of energy that GS had and ran uphill about 150 yards before toppling. My buddy watched the bull fall. I couldn't see him because recoil lost him in my scope and the field of vision was not large enough for me to readily pick him up after the rifle settled back into my shoulder. I did not like the way the GS acted. It came apart inside the bull, and the only piece we found was a 46-grain chunk of antimonial lead against the skin on the off side. My buddy/hunting guide told me then I needed a better bullet. I agreed. I like for them to come out. The next spring I bought a 7MM RM and that is what I have carried since, unless I was hunting with a ML. Did I recover the bull? Absolutely. Do I wish the bullet had exited? Without a doubt. I like for the quarry to tell me where they went. Elk country is huge country, and a bull elk can cover a lot of territory in the roughly 30 seconds it takes to expire if shot through the lungs. In short, take your .270 if that is the one you shoot best. Just make sure you use a high quality bullet. The elk deserve that, and you do, too. | |||
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I agree with Todd, carry the lightest rifle, figuring you shoot both well. There is no question a .270 Win or .375 H&H both can be used effectively on elk. Killing elk is usually the easiest part of the hunt, for most people altitude is the thing that ruins hunts quicker than anything. | |||
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I have taken close to 20 Elk . I have seen them take a 270 hit in the sholder and run off like they weren't even hit. Sure a 270 will kill an Elk but if I had. the choice of ANY thing larger I would use it. A couple friend's use a 375 H&H. I don't think it's necessary. A 300 mag or equivalent is MUCH better than a 270. | |||
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Slider, I just can't buy that the issue was a 270 vs a 300 win mag. There are way too many variables. We have all seen deer shot with the 30-06s through the heart and take off and run like they have never been hit. Is the 30-06 a bad deer cartridge? What I am saying is that very same elk could have just as easily re-acted the exact same way with a 300 win mag. Sure a 300 win Mag "kills better" than a 270 win but a 338 is better than a 300 win mag and 375HH is better than a 338 win mag but there are all plenty adequate for elk. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Again, I don't normally get in the "tit for tat" on bullets calibers etc. but I will state my two cents. I have read many,many articles over the years about Elk and calibers, bullets, etc. My view from what I have seen by polling by Wayne Van Zoll in past. The most popular and widely used caliber by actual Elk hunters put 300 Win Mag as first. Now this was a while back but it still seems logical today. I hunt Elk every year and I carry a 270 that will shoot groups touching or same hole. I also have a couple of 300 WM and they shoot the same. So the recoil issue is not a problem with me. I just like the 270. I couple the 270 with 150 gr TSX and 180 with the 300 WM. I have shot big game with both and no issues. The 300 WM does have a couple of advantages if they are important for how you will be hunting. The 270 Win is more than sufficient to kill an Elk and as mentioned it does so many times a year. Recommendation; You always hear it but take what you shoot well. Couple it with a premium bullet and shoot it not once, but a lot till you feel that it's part of you. I noticed a comment about hitting an Elk in the shoulder not doing it. IMO, shooting an Elk with the wrong bullet in shoulder would cause you a problem. Also, this kind of topic is a no-win because it's like pickups, your Ford or my Chevy. Bottom line: 270 Win will absolutely take an Elk! A larger caliber will not make up for a poorly placed round. I rest my case. Ha! Zim 2006 Zim 2007 Namibia 2013 Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010 Argentina 2019 RSA 2023 Tanzania 2024 SCI Life Member USMC | |||
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I agree with this line of thinking. So, IMHO, the best elk rifle is a .600 nitro express. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Take what ever you shoot well and enjoy the adventure. | |||
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I wonder how many of us spend more time arguing about calibers than time spent at the range? | |||
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Just a hunter, Im not blaming anyones shooting or any caliber, just stating I have seen well shot elk make a lot of tracks after being shot with 270 and 30-06s, in Idaho that's down hill and hard to get out..Just my take.. Ive shot more elk with a 30-06 than any other caliber over the years and I feel like the elk traveled too far on occasion and it wasn't bad shooting..My dad and I both shot elk with the 25-35 and 250 Savage, all the guns in our camp were 30-30, 300 Savages, a few 30-40s and 30-03 in Mod. 95 win. all had iron sights. Everyone was successful by not trying to shoot too far. Im not sure todays hunter who has limited time and money can turn down some long shots, especially under todays elk hunting conditions. Anyone who thinks the .338 Win isn't a better elk rifle than the 30-06 or 270 is as Jack O'Connor sez, "is nuts"..  You may believe that 300 yards is too far to shoot, so I appreciate you knowing your own limits, that is to be recommended for sure and under those circumstances a 06 suits your purpose.."Ole Ray" feels 400 yards with a rest is doable everytime with a properly sighted in .338 Win.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have only killed 9 bull elk; five of which are 6 by or better, but all with a .338 Win. Why would I choose anything else? | |||
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pm sent | |||
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Par4, The 260gr Accubond is a perfect match for that 375 H&H and elk. I use the 260gr Accubond with great effect in Africa in 2006 on everything from a warthog to a large zebra and never needed a second shot. Ranges were from 10' for the warthog, to 200 yards for the zebra, 260 for a large kudu and 225-260 for Wildebeest and Gemsbok. Except for the warthog, all of these large African plains animals are just as tough as any elk. As for the weapon used..it was a custom Encore pistol with a 14" barrel shooting those 260gr Accubonds at 2350fps. I shoot those same bullets in my 375 H&H rifles at 2800fps to the exact same effect...dead right there. In my observations with test loads and actual recovered bullets from game, the Accubond and the Partition have the same retained weights...70-75% which is plenty good enough for elk or any other non dangerous game for that matter. I have had a Ruger RSM in 375 H&H and felt it too heavy for the caliber so now have one in a Winchester 70 and one for the mountains...a Match Grade Arms 375 H&H that weighs 6.5 lbs scoped, slung and loaded. Good luck with the hunt. | |||
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Last years bull with the puny 270 Win and the 140 gr TSX. A 250 yard shot. He took a couple of steps and dropped. And even with one of those chitty Kimber Montanas.  | |||
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Judging a calibers capabilities with one or two elk just means nada! Ive shot elk that dropped at the shot with my 30-06, 270 and even the 25-35, but Ive had them run up to about 100 yards on occasion, and 50 yards on many occasions..Good performance, I call it acceptable..The furtherest Ive had an elk run with my 338 is 20 yards..I like that better, end of story. Thus my post, no condemnation of the 06 or 270 none at all, the .338 is just a better hammer for me.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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