Just got back from a Roosevelt Elk hunt with Olympic Mountain Outfitters owned by Mike Vaughn. Our group of 9 hunters only saw one spike bull the entire week we were hunting. We had a combined time of over 600 hunting hours involved. 2 of our hunters were on the "fully guided hunts" which meant that at daybreak they were dropped off at a stand where apples had been placed and left there until dark. The one guide had just started to hunt that week, he did not know the properties. Mike has 200 acres of leased land that he hunts. Half the property is allocated to "guided" hunters. In this half there are a couple of meadows where Mike dumps apples to bait the elk. Several cows were seen off these areas and only one spike bull. The other half of the property is for the semi guided hunters. There are 2 tree stands and one ground blind set up less than 200 yards apart from each other. These stands were for 7 hunters. We were warned if we venture onto the baited side he would throw us out of camp.
mike has another camp that he leases (100 acres owned by the sister to the newly hired guide). He had 3 fully guided hunters on this property. They stayed in a motel and had to eat at a restaurant. Their guid had a Honda Civic so they had to rent a truck to go to the hunting area. All three were placed in the same ground blind. All they saw all week were other hunters walking over the property and the neighbours walking their dogs.
Accomodations: Broken down RV trailers, camp full of ankle deep mud, a portable toilet and extension cords hooking the trailers together that caused the electrical breaker to pop continually.
Mike talks a good talk but "Buyer Beware".
By the way There was an elk guide in camp the first day (Mikes brother in law) he took Mikes son Tanner out to hunt the first 2 days and they were the only ones to see an elk bull.

I can't believe what I just read, I'm shocked that they would even consider them selves a guide service. Did you check to see if they were in fact a licensed guide service in Washington State before hand? The use of apples for the purpose of baiting Elk in Washington State is as illegal as it can get. If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay for these so called services?

Unbelievable.

Were you aware beforehand that there would be 2 guided hunters on 100 acres and 7 unguided on the other 100 acres? If not, what were you told you would be hunting?

No we did not know baiting for elk was illegal.
We were told that there was to be a lot of room for hunters and that we would have help looking for and harvesting the elk on public land.
I personally was a replacement hunter that was unable to attend the hunt. I was notified at 6:00 pm on last Thursday and was on a plane by Friday morning. I know the group of hunters fairly well and they invited me along basically free of charge. I personally was unable to investigate the outfitter before I went on this hunt. The group as a whole spent over $26000.00 for this hunt plus license fees.
I personally am an outfitter in Central Ontario Canada for black bears. I asked the outfitter for information about his guiding/outfitter license when we started and he did not produce them. Personally I could not believe the type of service he was providing.
The others in the group had met him at the Harrisburg show and had spoken to him numerous times on the phone. Mike the owner, was very personable and promised them to see and have a chance to harvest multiple bull elk.
"Guided hunt" cost $4000.00 plus license
"Semi guided hunt" cost $2600.00 plus license

If you have booked a hunt with this outfitter beware of what you are getting.

It is not illegal to Bait Deer and Elk in WA. State. It is illegal to Bait Bears thou. What a Joke. How did you get hooked up in this mess?

Yes it is illegal to bait deer and elk in Washington. You can hunt domestic and natural food sources such as whet fields, orchards and such but you cannot take a ben of apple out, dump it in the sage brush and hunt over it. Try it and see what happens when the Dept Of Fish & Game shows up.

I'm always curious about guiding on public land too, although this sounds leased, sorry to take this slightly off topic, but is it normal for people to pay guides to take them on public land? To me the whole point of hunting public land is so I don't have to pay, and the whole point in paying would be to get access to land with a better chance of success due to exclusivity.

You got a suck deal man, sorry for you and your buddies, hope there is a remedy, sadly too often the only remedy is ruining the person's business, which feels good but doesn't get the money back.

Red

quote:

but is it normal for people to pay guides to take them on public land?

Very common, just about every outfitter in this state hunts public land. Some camp on private, or have lodges on private, but the majority of the hunting takes place on public land. Some outfitters are actually ranchers that have private land mixed with public land.

As a side note, the number of satisfied customers of Olympic Mountain Outfitters, far out weighs the disatisfied customers. Some times it is nearly impossible to please everyone.

It definately is NOT illegal to bait deer or elk in WA.

quote:

Originally posted by SMACK!!!!:
Yes it is illegal to bait deer and elk in Washington. You can hunt domestic and natural food sources such as whet fields, orchards and such but you cannot take a ben of apple out, dump it in the sage brush and hunt over it. Try it and see what happens when the Dept Of Fish & Game shows up.

smack, the practice of baiting deer and elk is legal in washington. it may be frowned upon, but it's completely legal.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
As a side note, the number of satisfied customers of Olympic Mountain Outfitters, far out weighs the disatisfied customers. Some times it is nearly impossible to please everyone.

Kudu,

Do you care to expand upon this? I went to OMO's website and from the 5 "Client Testimonials", I wouldn't have gleed the same conclusion.

You would have to show me what page in the regs it states no baiting of Deer or Elk?

This January in WA. State HB 1885 was passed, which dis allows feeding wild animals and they had to have an amendment in it which still allows baiting of Deer and Elk "while in the legal act of hunting"

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

quote:

but is it normal for people to pay guides to take them on public land?

Very common, just about every outfitter in this state hunts public land. Some camp on private, or have lodges on private, but the majority of the hunting takes place on public land. Some outfitters are actually ranchers that have private land mixed with public land.

As a side note, the number of satisfied customers of Olympic Mountain Outfitters, far out weighs the disatisfied customers. Some times it is nearly impossible to please everyone.

how in the hell can 9 hunters hunt on 200 acres and be satisfied? i would be too afraid of getting shot to ever relax. if one hunter per 22 acres is your idea of a proper hunting experience, God help you.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:how in the hell can 9 hunters hunt on 200 acres and be satisfied? i would be too afraid of getting shot to ever relax.

Exactly. That's an exaggerated number of hunters. Elk are big animals and need alot of room to roam. That's another question I will ask my outfitter/guide BEFORE I plunk down some money for my future elk hunt.

I once hunted white-tails on private property with about a 2 dozen hunters on 300 acres and I thought there were way too many hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
I once hunted white-tails on private property with about a 2 dozen hunters on 300 acres and I thought there were way too many hunters.

Uhhhhh, yeah.....I'd say so. Now that's scary.


I too would like to know from whence kudu56 gets his information on this outfitter.

I just find it interesting that everyone would jump to the defense of a complete stranger, against another complete stanger and not really knowing all of the facts from both sides. Is the 200 acres heavily wooded like some of Washingtons rain forests, and adjacent to public or large tracts of private land? Or is it a 200 acre grass pasture? I know the answer, but do any of you that are condeming the outfitter and defending a hunter?

Now, I am a complete stranger to all of you, I can vouch for Mike's integrity and operation. Maybe not 4 star all the way around, maybe not 100% success year in and year out, but, "that's hunting" in this day and age. He works his butt off, provides an opportunity if it plays out,and feeds and shelters you. About the same as every outfitted hunt I have been on.

If baiting is the issue, aren't bears baited in Central Ontario? Or is it spot and stalk?
Or do you chase them down on foot and dispatch them with a spear? (I don't have a problem with any kind of baiting)

You are correct. Balck bears are hunted over baits in Ontario.
My problem with Mikle's operation is that he blatently lied about the services he was going to provide to the hunters.
He told them that there was going to be stands available for them to hunt out of. He only provided 2 stands and 1 ground blind for seven hunters. He said he was providing a guided hunt to those that paid for that service. In reality he drove them to a tree stand over a pile of apples and left them for the week.
Mike conceded to us that there were problably only 2 local bulls in the herd. One of those bulls was harvested just down the road. That left one bull to be hunted between 9 guys from our group. He had told the group that they should expect multiple opportunities for each hunter.
What about the fact that he put 3 hunters in ONE ground blind for an entire week on the same field. These three were "fully guided hunters"
The semi guided hunters asked Mike were should be look, where are the herds located, where should we hunt. His response was hunt the Warehouse properties(public land).
We asked him how we were to get the animals out of the public properties if we were to connect. He told us we were on our own because he was no allowed to set foot on Warehouse/public property.
Mike did not provide any experienced guides for the group. The only guide he had started working for him on the day we arrived. He had no clue how and where to hunt elk.
Overall as a hunter I can and will deal with the living conditions, the weather and such but the impression the group got was "we have your money".

terrible experience. Why you dont write to the local outfitters organization?

If you were a last minute addition to the group how do you really know what was sold or what was promised?

On the third day everyone got together and aired their grievances to Mike. They went around the table one by one and told Mike how they felt and what he had promised them. This is how I know what was said.
Mike just shrugged these comments off and did not respond.

where is a bunch of tar and feathers when you need them? kudu 56, this a pathetic example of "take the money and run". there is no excuse for selling a guided hunt and putting 2 guys in a tree blind- without a guide!!!! the more you defend indefensible conduct, the worse it looks. i don't care if the property adjoined Yellowstone, 200 acres is not enough land for 9 guys. 3 guys in a ground blind on a guided hunt?? get real here. if Washington has a guide/outfitters association file a complaint- as well as filing a complaint with the state licensing board. there is no excuse for this kind of fraud/deception.

I think that's spelled "Weyerhaeuser", for the timber land.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
where is a bunch of tar and feathers when you need them? kudu 56, this a pathetic example of "take the money and run". there is no excuse for selling a guided hunt and putting 2 guys in a tree blind- without a guide!!!! the more you defend indefensible conduct, the worse it looks. i don't care if the property adjoined Yellowstone, 200 acres is not enough land for 9 guys. 3 guys in a ground blind on a guided hunt?? get real here. if Washington has a guide/outfitters association file a complaint- as well as filing a complaint with the state licensing board. there is no excuse for this kind of fraud/deception.

What a crock. Exactly how do you know this all happened this way? Please tell us.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
where is a bunch of tar and feathers when you need them? kudu 56, this a pathetic example of "take the money and run". there is no excuse for selling a guided hunt and putting 2 guys in a tree blind- without a guide!!!! the more you defend indefensible conduct, the worse it looks. i don't care if the property adjoined Yellowstone, 200 acres is not enough land for 9 guys. 3 guys in a ground blind on a guided hunt?? get real here. if Washington has a guide/outfitters association file a complaint- as well as filing a complaint with the state licensing board. there is no excuse for this kind of fraud/deception.

What a crock. Exactly how do you know this all happened this way? Please tell us.

How do you know it didn't?

Just got a call from one of the guys I was hunting with. He had some information for me. I had left camp a day early with another hunter. When we left Mike (owner) brought in his son Tanner again. They hunted Saturday morning and within the first hour of the day Tanner had shot a 5X5 bull. Seems Mike new where the elk were hiding but refused to take/guide his paying customers there.
We are now investigating him and his outfitting service and considering taking legal action so that he will not be able to do this to other hunters.

kudu56.....if you can vouch for the outfitter's integrity I would suggest you direct him to this forum to defend himself......if what's been said is untrue I'm sure we'd all like to hear his side of the story. Shouldn't be too hard to do.

Unless what the OP reported is a complete pack of lies then either you have extremely low standards or don't know his outfit well enough to comment.

And constructoman.......perhaps your real name and the name of your guiding service would make your story more credible.

This should be posted in the hunting reports section.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
where is a bunch of tar and feathers when you need them? kudu 56, this a pathetic example of "take the money and run". there is no excuse for selling a guided hunt and putting 2 guys in a tree blind- without a guide!!!! the more you defend indefensible conduct, the worse it looks. i don't care if the property adjoined Yellowstone, 200 acres is not enough land for 9 guys. 3 guys in a ground blind on a guided hunt?? get real here. if Washington has a guide/outfitters association file a complaint- as well as filing a complaint with the state licensing board. there is no excuse for this kind of fraud/deception.

What a crock. Exactly how do you know this all happened this way? Please tell us.

How do you know it didn't?

I don't I never said I did.

Simply pointing out the foolishness of jumping to such conclusions and wanting to "tar and feather" someone based upon what a single unknown person has posted on a web forum. A person who by his own admission was a last minute addition to his group, admitted not seeing elk yet acknowledged that others killed elk in the same area.

Like I said, what a crock.

what earthly difference does it make that the poster was a last minute addition? and please show me where he states others in his group killed elk. according to the first post, the 9 guys saw a grand total of 1 spike. if this is your idea of a bonafide bull elk hunt- well, enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
what earthly difference does it make that the poster was a last minute addition?

The difference it makes is he was not involved in the negotiations, conversations, payments, has no idea what was requested, what was sold, what expectations were set, etc. etc. etc.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
and please show me where he states others in his group killed elk.

No you please show me where I said others in his group killed elk.

PS it's foolishness to pass judgment upon the quality of an elk hunt based upon what an unknown person and their group saw for animals. Heck for all you know they never left camp or they all could be blind in one eye and unable to see out of the other. You can't possibly know why no elk were seen from your easy chair in CA. If you think you can..............well enough said!

That's why you hire a guide. To find and point out the game and to put you in a position to have a decent shot at it.

I haven't a dog in this fight as too often the sports expect 5 star treatment in a wilderness camp. But if the outfitter had only 200 acres of land to hunt, that isn't much.

quote:

yet acknowledged that others killed elk in the same area.

Like I said, what a crock.

nowhere in his post does he say that others in his group killed an elk. he DOES say that a bull was killed "somewhere down the road" by someone else. 9 guys( who i doubt seriously were all blind or disabled)saw zilch. hell with 2-3 in each (unguided) blind- even if they only had 1 eye apiece, i think they could have seen something( assuming there was something to see). go to his website and read the glowing description of the great hunt you will have( for $4000 from an unguided, shared blind over a pile of apples brought in by the "truckload"). is this standard practice?

quote:

Olympic Mountain Outfitters

see the outfitter's website:
http://www.olympicmountainoutfitters.com/elkhunts.htm

"Hunters are guaranteed to see elk on their hunt and it’s just a matter of seeing the right one and being able to make the shot"

With the utmost respect I would like to address the negative claims made against my outfitting service. As a preface to my response I would like to state that I have many return clients that hunt with me year after year that would not miss the opportunity to hunt with Olympic Mountain Outfitters for anything. The man who made these claims against me was a semi-guided hunter who had paid for meals and lodging and a topographical map of an area with an elk population of 13,500 animals. He was expected to find these elk on his own. He had immediate access to millions of acres of prime hunting real estate. As an estimated 375lb. individual I don't think he was fit and capable of finding an elk in the wild, on his own. There are some people that should not book a semi-guided hunt, that instead, should book fully guided hunts and sit in one of my baited stand locations. Last year, the success of my semi-guided hunters was 100% opportunity with four rifle elk hunters. I would like to add that they were great hunters and only one of them missed a bull, the rest were able to harvest bulls. In addition to last years statistics, all three of my fully guided hunters harvested nice bulls that were baited into a field with ten thousand pounds of apples. This year's season we provided 106 thousand pounds of apples to many different stand locations stretching all over western washington. We selected the best stand locations for our eight guided rifle elk hunters this year. We were only able to provide a 50% shot opportunity for our guided rifle hunters this season. The guys that did kill elk said that they had the easiest and best elk hunt that they had ever been on. Every year our rifle elk season success rate varies. Our guided hunts never go less than 50% opportunity and our semi-guided success rate solely depends on the quality of hunters we have in camp. Now that we have discussed rifle season I would like to mention our archery hunting for this season. Out of 19 hunters, we had 15 shot opportunities and 9 harvested elk. All of these kills came by way of bait pile and treestand tactics.

I have been guiding elk hunts in western Washington for 13 years. The best way I have found to provide a great elk hunt for a person who is unfit to hunt Washington's jungle-like conditions is to utilize over 100 thousand pounds of apples in baiting all my stand locations. However,I still need to provide a semi-guided hunt for those who prefer not to hunt over bait and earn their kill the hard way.

In addition, I would like to say that baiting deer and elk is legal in Washington. Our game department knows exactly what I do for a living. Last year, the Lt. Governor of Washington, Brad Owen harvested his first elk ever with Olympic Mountain Outfitters utiziling the bait and treestand tactic.

Finally, I would like to comment on Harold, who operates a bear baiting guide service in Canada. He was my semi-guided elk hunter this year who posted many untrue statements on this web site. Hey Harold!!! Since you are unable to find elk on your own maybe next time you would consider hunting them in a stand, over bait, just like you do with your bears. In other words, HUNT FULLY GUIDED!!!! YOU NEED ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GET!!!!!!

Mike Vaughn of Olympic Mountain Outfitters
www.alwayshunting.com
e-mail = mike@alwayshunting.net

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

yet acknowledged that others killed elk in the same area.

Like I said, what a crock.

he DOES say that a bull was killed "somewhere down the road" by someone else. 9 guys( who i doubt seriously were all blind or disabled)saw zilch. hell with 2-3 in each (unguided) blind- even if they only had 1 eye apiece, i think they could have seen something( assuming there was something to see). go to his website and read the glowing description of the great hunt you will have( for $4000 from an unguided, shared blind over a pile of apples brought in by the "truckload"). is this standard practice?

Once again, I never said anyone in his group did kill an elk. What he said was that others hunting from his camp did manage to kill an elk. "When we left Mike (owner) brought in his son Tanner again. They hunted Saturday morning and within the first hour of the day Tanner had shot a 5X5 bull." By the posters own admission there were elk there to be seen and taken.

That however is not my point. My point is neither you nor anyone else reading these reports have any idea what actually happened, yet so many here, as is typical on these forums, rush to judgment based upon a few typed words from complete strangers.

Well, I guess now we need to hear from constructoman.

However, meals, lodging, and a topo map sounds like a DIY hunt not a "semi-guided" one.

Mike your an idiot.
No I do not weigh 375 lbs. As a matter of fact I weigh 300 lbs. and work on construction as my full time occupation. I am fully mobile and capable of hunting hard. I have hunted moose, whitetail, blackbear, and caribou all over Canada. Walking, stalking, sitting in stands is not a problem, I assure you.
My problem is with your services that you provide. You promise things that you are not capable to delivering. It is outfitters like you that leave a bad taste in the mouths of hunters.
Putting a hunter over a bait pile of apples is and cannot be considered a fully guided hunt.
Putting 3 hunters in a ground blind for a week is NOT a fully guided hunt.
We asked for your help in locating where the elk might be. You told us they are in the tall timber.
As a group we:
1.) sat stands from daylight to dark
2.) stalked the big timber
3.) drove logging roads
4.) set up on trails and waited
5.) posted clear cuts with meadows and trails
6.) organized drives through timber with posters
We did everything we can think of. We asked for your help and you provided NONE.
You told us you were not allowed on Weyherhauser property.
You sold "Semi guided" hunts. Not true. They are self guided hunts.

Harold Wiederman
wiederman@primus.ca
www.naiscootoutfitters.com

quote:

As a group we:
1.) sat stands from daylight to dark
2.) stalked the big timber
3.) drove logging roads
4.) set up on trails and waited
5.) posted clear cuts with meadows and trails
6.) organized drives through timber with posters

you did all of this on 200 acres?

No most of this hunting was done on public land. We also did some of this on the leased property.
I do think that fellow hunters should be aware of what goes on with and at some outfitters. I think forums like this are important for hunters to research outfitters. Good or bad reviews hunters can make their own informed decisions about going.
Wasbeeman is right when he called it a "do it Yourself" hunt. Unfortunately it was sold to the group as a "Guided" and "Semi-Guided" hunt. That is where I have a problem with this.