In light of some reicent posts, I am interested in how most people feel about other people poaching vs getting something from the tax payer to get by for a while

Question:
In times of need, would you rather someone

Choices:
Take public assistance
poach for food

 

i'm against both poaching and public assistance if one is capable of working (at anything).

that said, if i knew a guy who needed meat (say a deer) for his family, i'd tell him to come on out to the farm and shot one. the problem is, the same fellow i know (whose family could really use some deer meat) lives in a tar paper shack, drives a relatively new 4wd truck, and won't keep a job for longer than a month or two.

this thread should be interesting, as there is no "right" answer imo.

Even working full time doesnt mean a person wont need public assistance anyways if the available jobs dont pay much.

hard call. IF (plz note capitals) the fellow was truely poaching to feed his family, I think I'd have to turn a blind eye. BUT, that said, I lived in WV for 8 years and all the poachers I knew, were sucking at the public teat as hard as they could go. AND, often, working a job where they were paid off the books. And, frequently, their "wife" had told the DHS that she didn't know who the father of her four kids was so she was getting free housing, free drugs, free food, free clothes, etc. The poachers wanted to kill deer so's they could sell more of their kid's food stamps to buy drugs.
I think the "poor but proud" myth in America is dead.
You can dream up scenerioes of what might possibly be a reason for poaching but I doubt many of them would play out.

I have never yet seen a poacher who really needed the meat.

Total bullshit. The poachers here live in shacks living off tax dollars. Their main "job" is making babies for someone else to pay for. They now have this machismo to kill big bucks--not deer for food. He'll. If it was just for food I could sympathize. It's not. It's just shit breeding more shit.

quote:

Total bullshit. The poachers here live in shacks living off tax dollars. Their main "job" is making babies for someone else to pay for. They now have this machismo to kill big bucks--not deer for food. He'll. If it was just for food I could sympathize. It's not. It's just shit breeding more shit.

You are not a very observant person. Poachers take all forms, including politicians, doctors, ministers and even law enforcement officers. The poor also take many forms. Some of them are junkies, some have mental issues, some are just lazy, and some have severe physical dissabilities. There are millions of different stories out there and they don't all fit in your definition of a poacher. Don't you remember George W Bush poached a non game bird. That didn't mean he was a bad person, and in fact he turned himself in and payed the fine. Have any of yall ever done the same? Labeling someone a poacher has become such a broad brush that good people can get swept into the dustbin easily by it.

The poachers I've seen don't take enough of the animal to claim a need for meat. They either take the backstraps or the head, and generally not both off of the same deer.

Killing because of a serious need is one thing, but generally poaching is driven by boredom and the want of something to shoot at.

Shoot poachers when caught, no need to kill the animals that they don't eat.

quote:

Shoot poachers when caught, no need to kill the animals that they don't eat.

Are you an anti-hunter? Usually they are the only ones I see on here that could have there priority system this screwed up. Do you really believe an animals life to be worth more than a human life? Maybe you just forgot to take your meds today.

I've hunted all my life(I'm 59) and spent 26 years as a state game warden in Alabama, one of the "poor states", mostly in our Blackbelt region. Seven of those years I led the state in number of annual arrests...I worked hard.

I can count on less than one hand the poachers that I caught that were doing it because they had no other avenue to fresh meat.

1980 or so we caught two out of work pulpwood cutters night hunting rabbits one night, had a dozen rabbits between them. Crazy damn District Judge fined them $500 each, fine should of been $50-$100!!

1990 I caught an very old black man and his eight? year old grandson with a night killed illegal doe. They were in their front yard heating a big boiling pot as they skinned it, maybe five minutes after first light. You could throw a medium size cat THRU the walls of the shack they lived in. I told him to take it out back so I couldn't see them skin it.....and left.

I think I'd be safe saying that every other poacher I caught(hundreds) poached because they WANTED to. A poacher with a $1000 rifle/scope rig gets little consideration of compassion from me, esp driving a new 4X4 truck.

troy

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
You are not a very observant person. Poachers take all forms, including politicians, doctors, ministers and even law enforcement officers. The poor also take many forms. Some of them are junkies, some have mental issues, some are just lazy, and some have severe physical dissabilities. There are millions of different stories out there and they don't all fit in your definition of a poacher. Don't you remember George W Bush poached a non game bird. That didn't mean he was a bad person, and in fact he turned himself in and payed the fine. Have any of yall ever done the same? Labeling someone a poacher has become such a broad brush that good people can get swept into the dustbin easily by it.

You need to change your screen name......every post you make accentuates it's inaccuracy.

quote:

You need to change your screen name......every post you make accentuates it's inaccuracy.

What did I post that was innaccurate or untrue? You need to get thicker skin and not let your damaged emotions sway your debate.

Why are we feeding that troll?

quote:

Why are we feeding that troll?

Norton doesn't seem like that bad of a fella to me. Why would you want to run him off?

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
Don't you remember George W Bush poached a non game bird. That didn't mean he was a bad person, and in fact he turned himself in and payed the fine. Have any of yall ever done the same? Labeling someone a poacher has become such a broad brush that good people can get swept into the dustbin easily by it.

IMO what GW did isn't poaching. Mistakes are made by hunters if you own up to it and pay the fine then you are not a poacher but a responsible sportsman. Like a buddy of mine shot a less than 50" bull moose in AK, he thought it had the right amount of brow tines to be legal. On the ground he realized he made a mistake, took care of the meat and head took it to the check station. Got charged $300 fine and paid it for his mistake, I don't consider my friend a poacher and neither did the Alaskan DNR.

Knowingly breaking game management laws and trying to get away with it makes a Poacher. However you try to justify it, someone knowingly breaking laws by shooting game illegally is a poacher no matter what their intentions were. You just can't justify it.

How about this if you get robbed at gun point but your assailant only bought groceries to feed his family with the money he took then did he really commit a crime? I mean he is a good person who just fell on hard times and had to feed his family, he shouldn't be punished for not taking public assistance to do it. That is basically what you are saying on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:

Why are we feeding that troll?

Norton doesn't seem like that bad of a fella to me. Why would you want to run him off?

I'm guessing he meant you.


And just to add a bit more substance.....I can't say what I'd do but I'd venture to guess I'd kill what I need to eat if welfare wasn't sufficient. But you can be damned sure I'd find some work before doing either. As someone above said, find me a poacher that's hungry and you've found a bullshit artist.

Let them poach all they can eat, we as hunters can fix a hell of a menu for our non tax paying
Brothers.

1. Wolves--because their poaching with help from
the Goberment
2. Coyotes--because we cant shoot them all
3. Mountain Lions--This means they will have to feed dogs as well, this will equate to more
of the latter taken for dog food.

4. Last but not Least--Flying Carp!

If i left something out feel free to add!

CROW CASSEROLE

Crow breasts
Sauerkraut
Bacon strips
Onion

Remove crow breasts. Soak overnight in salt water. Parboil for 1/2 hour. Brown in butter. Place on a bed of 1 1/2 inches of sauerkraut in a casserole. Cover each breast with bacon strips. Cover with slice of onions and more sauerkraut. Pour sauerkraut juice over the whole thing. Bake for 2 hours at 350 degrees. If it still tastes like crow, you did something wrong, serve to obnoxious neighbors.

quote:

I've hunted all my life(I'm 59) and spent 26 years as a state game warden in Alabama, one of the "poor states", mostly in our Blackbelt region. Seven of those years I led the state in number of annual arrests...I worked hard.

I can count on less than one hand the poachers that I caught that were doing it because they had no other avenue to fresh meat.

1980 or so we caught two out of work pulpwood cutters night hunting rabbits one night, had a dozen rabbits between them. Crazy damn District Judge fined them $500 each, fine should of been $50-$100!!

1990 I caught an very old black man and his eight? year old grandson with a night killed illegal doe. They were in their front yard heating a big boiling pot as they skinned it, maybe five minutes after first light. You could throw a medium size cat THRU the walls of the shack they lived in. I told him to take it out back so I couldn't see them skin it.....and left.

I think I'd be safe saying that every other poacher I caught(hundreds) poached because they WANTED to. A poacher with a $1000 rifle/scope rig gets little consideration of compassion from me, esp driving a new 4X4 truck.

troy

+1 What a thoughtful post. I couldn't agree more.

LWD

Local warden caught guy with dead blue heron. Poacher pleaded for mercy saying " I only did it to feed my family" Warden told him to leave and as an afterthought asked him "By the way, how do those taste?" Answer " sort of a cross between a bald eagle and a whooping crane"

just kidding

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
Local warden caught guy with dead blue heron. Poacher pleaded for mercy saying " I only did it to feed my family" Warden told him to leave and as an afterthought asked him "By the way, how do those taste?" Answer " sort of a cross between a bald eagle and a whooping crane"

just kidding

Good one. The third option was left off the list:

Shoot poachers and feed them to the poor.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:
Why are we feeding that troll?



Norton doesn't seem like that bad of a fella to me. Why would you want to run him off?


I'm guessing he meant you.


And just to add a bit more substance.....I can't say what I'd do but I'd venture to guess I'd kill what I need to eat if welfare wasn't sufficient. But you can be damned sure I'd find some work before doing either. As someone above said, find me a poacher that's hungry and you've found a bullshit artist.

I know who he meant Norton. I just found it humorous that he passed over a post calling for the murder of people, to call me a troll. He obviously has a personel problem with my opinions, so much so that he is blind to other sillyness on this thread.

As for showing you a hungry poacher, I believe our resident LEO DTala showed you that.

By the way a little salt on that crow goes a long way.

quote:

How about this if you get robbed at gun point but your assailant only bought groceries to feed his family with the money he took then did he really commit a crime? I mean he is a good person who just fell on hard times and had to feed his family, he shouldn't be punished for not taking public assistance to do it. That is basically what you are saying on this subject.

If you think armed robbery, and whacking a rabbit out of season are anywhere near each other in severity of crimes your priorities are severley scewed.

Back in the day, law enforcement was encouraged to have a brain and make decisions.
Anymore I think they are told to enforce the laws and not deviate from procedure regardless of circumstances.

If the majority of poachers were like the ones you describe, there would be a hell of a lot less poachers, and a LOT more people would be ok with them doing it to get some food on the table.

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:


1990 I caught an very old black man and his eight? year old grandson with a night killed illegal doe. They were in their front yard heating a big boiling pot as they skinned it, maybe five minutes after first light. You could throw a medium size cat THRU the walls of the shack they lived in. I told him to take it out back so I couldn't see them skin it.....and left.


troy

If you can hunt/poach, you have enough money to buy food. This is laughable.

Agree with Dogcat,

Get off your lazy ass and find a job or more importantly, live within your means. Stop taking the easy route you bunch of democrats.

quote:

If you can hunt/poach, you have enough money to buy food. This is laughable.

Really? I can poach a deer for a nickel. Can I buy a single piece of Bubbleyum for that?

I find it interesting that so many have established a preference for breaking the law, with all its' attendant sanctions; including fine, loss of vehicle and firearms, loss of hunting & fishing privileges, and possible incarceration.
That, over just going down to the whatever office and signing up for food stamps and public assistance.

In Idaho, your ass is had if they catch you. And they usually do.

Rich

I dont live in the USA , but we have poachers here too . Not many of them are genuine needy folk who hunt to live . In some of our poor areas - we have them too down here - there is a definate hunting to survive culture,

However - I have to ask you posters this question ;

Have you personally ever been in the situation where you either illegally hunted an animal or you wnt hungry?

I suspect that the majority of you gents all have safe jobs and incomes , and have never been in that unfortunate situation. Dont confuse the question with those bastards who jump the fence and shoot a deer because its there and they can - thats a completely different scenario

Ok another scenario. Has not drawn a tag for 5 years. 8 deer off of the back porch. Trying to feed his family and not just drinking away the unemployment check. Is that poaching or providing for his family?
I agree most poachers should be shot! because they are horn hunting. I guess I have a double standard..My wife works for circut court and in my county they hammer poachers.

I'd guess, from my experience, that probably 75% of those who poached on a REGULAR CHRONIC basis had problems with other ares of criminal law, having other criminal convictions. Drugs, assault, theft, etc. I usually ran the major violators thru NCIC files and found most of them had other than wildlife convictions.

Makes ya take a closer look when apprehending those night hunters....

troy

And speaking of public assistance!!
Being from law and court room experience.
Public assistance is worse than poaching!! The ones that actually need it are denied! The low life blood sucking leaches of the world are the only ones that actually get "public assistance"
Drug daelers.living off the state.Low lifes getting wellfare,food stamps.unemployment,heat assistance,grants HUD. Basically a free ride! So If one of us shoots a deer out of season,Who Is really the criminal ??

quote:

I find it interesting that so many have established a preference for breaking the law, with all its' attendant sanctions; including fine, loss of vehicle and firearms, loss of hunting & fishing privileges, and possible incarceration.
That, over just going down to the whatever office and signing up for food stamps and public assistance.

I find it equaly as repulsive men who openly admit they would stand in line for a handout. That makes my list of things not to do somewhere between coming out of the closet and pistol whipping grannies.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
I dont live in the USA , but we have poachers here too . Not many of them are genuine needy folk who hunt to live . In some of our poor areas - we have them too down here - there is a definate hunting to survive culture,

However - I have to ask you posters this question ;

Have you personally ever been in the situation where you either illegally hunted an animal or you wnt hungry?

I suspect that the majority of you gents all have safe jobs and incomes , and have never been in that unfortunate situation. Dont confuse the question with those bastards who jump the fence and shoot a deer because its there and they can - thats a completely different scenario

I would think the majority have had a day or two in their lives when they weren't sure when they were going to see another dollar come in, even if it was a long time ago. The thing about the USA (maybe elsewhere but I can only speak for here) is that unless you are at the bottom of an addiction barrel and trade food for drugs or alcohol, it is nearly impossible to go hungry.

First there are food stamps and shelters. Then there is the Salvation Army. Beyond that, even in the small towns there is a church on every corner and almost all of them will have some sort of food bank program. During the school year there are breakfast and lunch programs for students.

It's pretty hard to hungry for longer than a day here.

I know becasue a relative was disabled on diability and had access to all the options. It was an amazing learning experience on several levels.

So it must be easy to cut and paste.! and not know what you are talking about!! The common criminal Is SO much smarter than you and me!
Point is The honest man trying to feed his family will ALWAYS get caught!The criminal with nothing to loose 99% of the time wont.

Tiggertate. The cut and paste was not aimed at you. You posted before I could.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:

If you can hunt/poach, you have enough money to buy food. This is laughable.

Really? I can poach a deer for a nickel. Can I buy a single piece of Bubbleyum for that?

Here you go again. If you can get in your pick up, drive out and shoot a deer with your 30-30, you have the money for food. If you are that bad off, sell the gun , sell the truck and buy food. Day laborers make more than enough to eat everyday.

You scrounged up enough money to go lion hunting, anyone can work enough to feed themselves. If not, get on the cell phone and call an aid agency. There are at least a dozen in most cities. Oh, sorry, the poor fellow doesn't have a cell phone, then offer him yours. Good grief.

quote:

Here you go again. If you can get in your pick up, drive out and shoot a deer with your 30-30, you have the money for food. If you are that bad off, sell the gun , sell the truck and buy food. Day laborers make more than enough to eat everyday.

You scrounged up enough money to go lion hunting, anyone can work enough to feed themselves. If not, get on the cell phone and call an aid agency. There are at least a dozen in most cities. Oh, sorry, the poor fellow doesn't have a cell phone, then offer him yours. Good grief.

You don't need a truck and a 30-30 to kill a deer. That's my point. I can remember when I was a kid growing up a homeless bumb here poached a duck in Herman park on one of the ponds. They crucified the guy. Not everyone uses the same poaching proticol that you do. As for the last paragraph I honestly can't tell what in the world you are talking about. What does me going hunting have anything to do with whehter the poor can feed themselves? Maybe it just got past your bedtime.