WyoWhisper
Well the grand old 06 held that 1000yd record for a very long time- until the 300 Win mag came out! So I say that it very well and does shoot that far! Paper punching any way.

Darryl Cassel
So I take it this super expesive rig you shoot is mounted to some type of bench for this kind of shooting-where in the back of a pick-up? And the gun is locked down? I've seen some of these competion rigs and basically the rifle is bolted /clamped down where to shooter just pulls the trigger without touching the rifle?

Also Darryl please answer Smallfry's question how can you dream of doping the wind with out those little range flags?

Gunnut...

duh...I never said it couldn't shoot that far.. my custom 308 will shoot that far and it holds as many records as the 06 but... it doesn't have the foot lbs. to kill effectivly... read the post...

as far as the wind thing.. DC pays me .10 for every flagg I put out there for him.. last time i did it I put out 400 flags.. it was really cool... it looked like an amusment park... i change the colors alot though.

Ric,that's funny....It just so happen's everytime we kill a deer at long range we hang a few ribbon's on the way to get it.....Work's quite well I might add

Gunnut,here is a pic of my setup for shot's under 1000 yard's.....That is my Father-in-Law on the gun with me behind him calling the shot.About 3 second's after the pic was taken.We made a one shot kill on a nice buck at 700 yard's...

Boy now that is hunting. I'm glad you guys wore hunters orange. To the average nonhunter,seeing that many tripods. Hell they may have thought you were a fucking National Geographic film crew. What's that square shaped boulder in the picture,the edge of the parking lot?

[ 12-12-2002, 12:04: Message edited by: RMK ]

Gunnut

You have the wrong ballistics for the bullet I was using.
The 240 gr 30 cal has a BC of .711.
You have down a .500----Recalculate.

AS far as being able to see the the animal in the scope with a large amount of drop already dialed in on the scope, yes you can see the animal even with the drop of many feet of elevation clicks on and ready for firing.

As far as wind flags, as someone asked, we normally take a spotter shot or two first in front or behind the animal 100 yards and on his SAME level (it does not scare the animal because he does not hear the muzzle blast and don't relate the hit of the bullet on a stump or into the ground) , make our corrections both windage and elevation and then go to the animal and kill it.

WE did not do the spotter shot (and should have) on the 1825 yd deer the other day and we did not get it. The deer was not hit but the bullet was close enough to throw some dirt on him as he went over a far ridge. It was one of VERY few that has ever gotten away from us, but it was not hit.

The buck was killed by another longrange crew that was set up looking into the next valley that the deer ran. The shot for them was 1250 yds.
We tried to get it before it got down to them that's why we went right for it and without the spotter shot.

Hope that explains some things to those of you asking.

Have a good one, I have 3 LR hunters here that are chomping at the bit to get out and hunt today.

Just wanted to answer your questions. The average Short range hunter would have to "see" it done to understand "how" it's done.
As mentioned, it's not for everyone, but it's "our" way.

DC

Not my cup of tea... and it's not OFFHAND, which is where this thread stated.

If this is HUNTING, I had better never hear another negative about Texans in boxstands...

At least this rifle wasn't a 25# benchrest betty..

Jeffe

This place is amazing nothing but a bunch of kids over the age of 10... you'd think this was the 3rd grade recess playground.

I is ashame that Saeed and others spend a great deal of money to have a bunch of ignorant fools ruin it.

I admit I too fell into the pit of mud slinging. BUT ...my wife was degraded...

I hope you guys don't set this example for our youth.. who by the way is our future.
I'm embarrased to have even contributed...

Darryl Cassel
Yep I realised the mistake after I had posted -and ran the other BC but it didn't change the drop much -100-200 ". Unfortunately I couldn't see the Pics? I guess I just can't get where you folks are coming from as you said in your last post "you use spotting shots then just kill the deer" I sorry that's not hunting- it's target shooting although it's at a living target. My ethics just tell me that doing what you do is not hunting but shooting! There no pursuit- no advantage/disavantage given or taken by you or the deer. The only challenge to the way you go about it is making the killing shot. I got a question on all the deer you've shot where are most of the hits? Are they heart/lung? How many have you actually had to track? Lost? What made you take up this form of (Hunting )-Shooting versus the traditional methods?

In Norway what you guys call "long range shots", like beyond 300 yards, is flat out illegal. You would, if the proper authorities found out about your business and could prove you took a shot at an unwonded animal at 300 yards+, loose the right to hunt, pay a fine and what have you.

And before you start screaming "facist regime" think about this: I have heard of two -2- convictions ever for this offence. One hunter was convicted for firing at unwounded game at appr. 220 yards off-hand with only a thin bush as support, three others for shooting at unwounded reindeer that was running hard at appr. 180 yards. Judges in both cases said that there would have been no conviction if the hunter had shot prone/with support or in the second case, if the game had been standing still.

This is not a matter anyone in Norway cares to discuss, or at least no one I have met at the range or the hunting club. Nobody seems to be the least bit interested in shooting beyond 300 yards. In fact I have never even heard anyone bragging about shots beyond 200 meters (220 yards). It simply would not be a good story, everybody would think you were an idiot. Sometimes a hunter will quietly admit to shooting game at about the 300 yard mark, and make all kinds of excuses for taking that (legal) shot.

Also, if you hunt big game in Norway, at least Moose, Stag and Roedeer, you got to have access to a dog that can trail wounded game. If you take a shot at a game animal and it doesn�t drop you are obligated to check the trail for blood, hair etc. and if in the least bit in doubt wether you missed cleanly you are obligated to get the dog (and the dog man) and follow the trail until it is certain that the animal isn�t lying somwhere wounded. If anyone finds a game animal wounded or dead somewhere and can make the connection to a specific hunters "clean miss" that hunter would be in serious trouble, at least if he didn�t follow the trail the rest of the same hunting day.

I know that a long shot can be ok, provided the hunter has total control over all the factors like range, trajectory, wind, the game standing still etc. Under no circumstance is anybody going to push me to fire at unwounded game beyond 300, even though I do have all the bells and whistles, a flat shooting rifle, cronograph, trajectory software, laser range finder etc. Game can move, wind is still unpredictable, in short: Beyond a certain range, maybe just a few hundred yards, your�e taking a chance on something totally beyond you control and when it comes to killing game quickly and cleanly that is unexcusable. And in Norway it is actually illegal to inflict unnecessary pain to animals. I can illustrate with another conviction (I�m a lawyer) A man got a conditional jail sentence, appr. 1500usd fine and had his right to hunt taken from him for two years because he shot and wounded a reindeer and waited 15 minutes for it to die before killing it with his knife. The law requires you to shoot the game again, right away. When this hunter didn�t he was convicted for inflicting undue pain to the animal.

As I said, this law is totaly uncontroversial in Norway because only the yerks are afraid of it. For all the real hunters it simply reflects common sense. And I think a comparison between norway and the US does not halter when it comes to hunters. A lot of people hunt in Norway and it is not, and has never been, a sport for a rich upper class only. We hunt in both thick forests and wide open spaces, in the wilderness, not on fenced ranches. We kill all the game we want at the "short ranges" that our custom/hunting culture and, lately, the law prescribes.

Tron

Tron,

although i respect your opinion, I am not really sure how Norway laws would apply to the USA. Thia topic has been beaten and battered in just about every forum. Nothing has come from all the opinions other than arguments, attemps at ethic discussions, and anger. The ones who are generally interested in the correct way of doing that type of hunting will go to the right site to learn more. The ego trip , old school guys will stay here and mudsling. I HAVE SEEN THIS FOR 2 YEARS NOW.
All of the guys I know that do this care for and respect the animals as much as anyone else. Reguardless of anyone elses viewpoint or feelings the welfare and managment of the animals have become priority.

[ 12-12-2002, 21:56: Message edited by: WyoWhisper ]

Boyd - Thank you for posting the picture of how you do your thing. Obviously you are good at it and I salute you for this skill.

Is it hunting? Well, in the strictest interpretation of the term, I guess it is.

Is it hunting by what the rest of the world considers hunting. I doubt it.

My son and I play a very similar version of what you do when we get together several times each year...except we don't have quite the elaborate optics and set up. AND we shoot at rocks.

We make some really wild shots and we miss some and I'm sure we hit some rocks "poorly." But it's fun and no harm done except to a few rocks. Luckily for us rocks have little or no political clout and no special interest group support that I am aware of at this writing.

As Jeffe points out, however, what your doing is hardly "offhand shooting." One could almost call it "dial a bullet" rather than ordinary shooting or hunting at all.

I think about all you have proven with this activitity is the validity of what is stamped on every box of 22LR ammunition ever sold. "Danger - Range one mile."

OK, indeed bullets are dangerous out to a mile. And given enough equipment and optics, we can prove it. (As you have done.)

I hate to rain on another man's hobby, but I think I'll pass as well on what you call hunting. It's not the way I, in my own inept and sometimes fumbling way, go about the sport. Sorry.

[ 12-12-2002, 22:06: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

I don't know, it seems legit to me. Sitting in a stand seems legit to me. Shooting from a pickup, hunting at night with night vision, using calls, bait, drivers, dogs, whatever, it all seems pretty legit to me. Even setting traps and running the game into it with a brush fire sounds legit to me, assuming the habitat to support it.

What doesn't sound ethical is people who go just to kill animals and leave them. If they aren't going to at least try and make use of the animal, then THAT is unethical, IMO. Threats and pests can be an exception, I guess.

Boyd... do you have a pic of that deer? what load combo were you useing?

300 Ultra pushing a 240gr MK at 3000fps.Not sure why you wanna see a pic of it.Has to be a reason

My reason is that I wanted to see the end result of your hunt and hear about preformance, nothing malicious.

I have to agree with the masses, that IS NOT hunting, that is sniping.
If that is your cup of tea fine have alot of fun doing it.
Just please don't call it hunting.

Monster like that,I can see why you didn't want to risk a stalk,that may of failed.

Well since this topic has changed the affromentioned several times and one thing keeps coming up .. I have a question..

someone define hunting and then I may be able to help you see that in fact you can be a long range HUNTER

Gunnut

Just to answer your questions.

The majority of hits we have made on deer and elk at extreme range have been through at least one shoulder and many times BOTH shoulders.

We have NEVER had to track one yet and we have killed a lot of deer and elk.

By the way, it's not bolted down to my pickup truck and many times we backpack our equiupment out on ridges, far away from any vehical.

later
DC

PS---As an ad on after reading your ballistics chart you posted---I would throw that program away or at least please put in the correct information.
Temp was 20 degrees---The scope hight is 2 1/2" not 1 1/2"---the altitude was 1000 feet elevation---the velocity was 3235 FPS---

At 1800 yds the Bullet path was -812" ---I had 1300 Foot pounds of energy remaining and the remaining Velocity was 1564 FPS. The bullet drop is taken up by the click adjustments in the scope and with the use of tapored bases to allow it.

The above figures are from the "Oehler" (Most well known) Ballistics program and is off by 2 clicks at 2100 yards when actual firing. Yes at that range you use the clicks available in the scope to make the adjustments.
I see you don't understand how that works or the question would not have been asked.
Just an explanation for you.

[ 12-13-2002, 06:21: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

Maybe we should be thankful that Spammy isn't shooting elk offhand at 500 yards with a 45-70 stoked with matchkings!

Good Hunting,

OK,

lets take the definition.

to search for or follow after.
I lrh you without question search for animals. It is just done from a distance.

tp paraphrase the rest, to chase after pursure to catch for for the purpose of killing. Now there is no way you do that in LRH. ALSO....there is no way anyone else does that. The day a human can chase after and catch and animal.. is the day i quit. There is no man alive that can chase after and catch a deer or an elk.. NO ONE.

TO seach diligently for. Yup we do that in Long range hunting... just from another hill...

the definition is ALOT of chasing and pursuring.. you got me there .. i don't anyone here chases the animals.. you may pusure but in the end you shoot it from a distance.

In LRH.. your pursuit stops when you find a hillside wher you can see where the animals travel.
YOUR FORFATHERS DID THIS IN BUFFALO HUNTING.. you still call them buffalo hunters....

I agree with the sniper thing.. yes I am concealed.. but I bet you are too... I bet my last dollar you wear camo.. this is your attempt to conceal...

so far.. long range is still hunting.....

RMK,Is this one better????????This buck was taken yesterday by one of the guy's I hunt with at 950 yard's with one shot out of a 30 Hart shooting 220gr MatchKing's...