Wyo don't you just hate those guy's that have a smart mouth and won't post were they are from pr thier email address.

[ 12-11-2002, 02:43: Message edited by: Handloader ]

Bullets do become erratic if they are flat based and go subsonic. To be effective in the LR capacity you really should stay supersonic. I have never studied the ballistics from my loads at subsonic speed.. the ft. lbs arn't there to even think about killing an animal.

The place to get the video is

keenvisionvideo@suscom.net

just e-mail and say what ya need...

as far as this dougie guy and anyone else for that matter who cares to degrade my wife, my business or me.. I was a private Investigator for 10 years who worked in affiliation with several federal agencies. I did the work they necessarily could not do out of political correctness. I also was affiliated with several law firms. If anyone cares to try to degrade my wife, my business or myself. Including and not limited to slander and defamation of character I will do everything in my power to either find you or prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law. I do have the means and ability to perform this. Keep in mind new laws are being made everyday to punish/prosecute anyone who attemps/performs this on the internet. Be forwarned.... If you feel lucky call my bluff..

It truly is shame ignoance runs rampid in places like this

Hey Wyo, that is a beautiful looking ranch and a great website. If you and your wife are Ric and Dolly Horst, and I assumer you are, hang on to her, she's a looker! Just out of curiousity, how much are your rates for a "varmint" hunt? I doubt I could afford it, but I have a close friend that teaches in Gillette and I'm heading out to see him with my wife and our new baby this coming summer.
Yardbird

Yup thats us...

I have just secured a 1800 acre lease that has prarie dog towns that are literally 300-400 acres in size. Our deluxe hunt which includes everything from lunch to rests, basically eveything but the gun and bullets runs 150 per day... shots will range from 100 yards to over 1500 .. it's all up to you....we are pretty excited about this lease...

Ric,what about me......I wanna shoot some prarie poodles too......................Do you think my Ultra would be enough gun for them????????I only get 3000 fps with the 240's

I would also like to say I've meet Ric and Dollie at the outdoor show in Harrisburg.And they are both "Class Act's" and I am a better person for knowing them...............

[ 12-11-2002, 06:49: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

Wyo, in Dc's case of 1800+yard shot, it seems to me that in atleast this one instance, some one took an 1800+ yard shot that should not have. Agreed that with the range involved the miss was small, but it was a miss. It is said the bullet hit betweent the front and rear feet. A few feet higher and it would have plugged right thru the gut. DC said animal diapeared after this shot, a miss. They could have easily gut shot this animal and it would have disapeared. I say you should not take a shot at game unless you know you are going to hit it. At 1800 yards, there are far too many variables to make any shot a given. It is iresponcible no matter how you cut it.

Kristofer

[ 12-11-2002, 04:40: Message edited by: KBGuns ]

Hey Dougy,

You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As
they
say in Texas. I'll bet you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with
instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away.
I
would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm
deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad,
a
weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a
revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.

You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species
as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformation. I barf at the very
thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid
you.
You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus,
the
dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell?

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to
impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop
will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it
more rapidly.

You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive
its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to
fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink
shame
of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea
of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid,
nasty
and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus.
Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are
unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that
reality forgot.

And what meaning do you expect your delusional self-important
statements
of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do
you
hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have
more
weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle,
waiting for the bite of the snake?

You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and
obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living
emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a
disease,
you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meat slapper.

On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are
deficient
in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You
are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source
of
all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

You smarmy lager lout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock.
You grotty wanking oink artless base-court apple-john. You clouted
boggish
foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless
crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You
cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup
pratting
naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted
fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill.

You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are
degenerate,
noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I
despise
everything about you, and I wish you would go away.

I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard
stupid.
Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond
the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are
trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far
that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no
intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on
Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire
galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll.
Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some
primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure
essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond
the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is
an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me
again
for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride your ignorant
questions and half baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of
the rest of this drivel. Duh.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped
away most of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say
anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful.
I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of
babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have
learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success.
True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take
for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we
sometimes
forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these
things more difficult. If I had known that this was your case then I
would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right".
Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck
in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a
demand on you.

P.S.:
You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly,
deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent,
opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,
racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged,
imbecilic,
insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous, byzantine,
conspiratorial, satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious, splenetic,
spastic, ignorant, clueless, illegitimate, harmful, destructive, dumb,
evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist, narrow, manipulative,
paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous, unethical, cultic,
diseased, suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive,
dim, crazy, weird, dystopic, stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim,
unsympathetic, jargon-spouting, censorious, secretive, aggressive,
mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous, flagrant, self-destructive, abusive,
socially-retarded, puerile, clueless, and generally Not Good.

(yes, I'm done now)

Great forum. Longe Range always brings out the worst in people. If a person spends enough time shooting at long range,the results can be fantastic. The problem is few shoot enough, to really achieve a high level of accuracy at extreme range.

Wyowhisper,this is a public forum. You are using a fictional name,just like this dougy clown is. You'd be hard pressed to be able to prove anything. No law firm in their right mind would pursue a legal case against a person who talked trash against your wife. There's probably a couple thousand dolly's in the U.S,for all we know this guy was talking about Dolly Parton. She is cute though,I'm sure she gets plenty of attention and eyes.Keeps you a little jealous I'm sure.

If this guy somehow cost you business. Then you might have a leg to stand on.But I don't see how he could have,since who is wyowhisper,nobody as far as any court is concerned. Having spent the last 30 years with both federal and state law enforcement agencies, I put little faith in those
who tell stories about what their credentials are. You did peak my interest though,so I called a friend in Cody,that ranches. Never heard of any of the PI stories,but did hear through the grapevine that you're a trust funder.Evidently cody is getting the over flow from Jackson Hole now days.

I love Montana and Wyoming too! You can find me at Chester Illinois if you have a mind too.

Mr. Jim Carmicheal once wrote on this same topic last year I do believe. Now to sum up and cut this short, I will tell you he stated that to him, anything shot over 400 yards shot by a hunter was No more than Barber Shop Bull Crap.

Heywood Jablowme, that is quite the post you rung yourself up there! It's almost like you spent a few years in the Navy, then got your master's in English. Quite the vocabulary, I know you expanded mine, it should be in the humor section!
Yardbird

Boyd,

Don't you worry freind.. I got your PD's.. when you and Butch come here to shoot the next PBLR video we'll see how we can stretch the legs of all your rifles...

Thankyou for the kind words... I know my wife thanks you too....

Tundra,

Great thing about this interent is that everyone when they log on leaves a fingerprint.
I make no stories of who I am or what I have done in the past. Your connection in Cody who ranches really has no freakin idea who I am and I wanted it that way. Also his information about where I came from is wrong. I grew up in PA. I earned every cent that I have. In all of your law enforcement background you should know there are alot of private people hired to do things that the uniforms or people in the public eye cannot. You should also know that the private sector of investigation is very lucrative. Especially the undercover work.. but I'm sure you knew that....
Don't go assuming anything about me or what your ignorant friend might think he knows about me. Don't lecture me on the details of law I am fully aware of the dificulties in pinning anything on him. However, it can be done.
I am not sure if your married however, sure would be easier to see my wife degraded rather than yours.. this isn't somting I take lightly.. so you worry about your wife I'll worry about mine...

funny thing about this Cody area.. a younger couple comes here makes and honest living spends a great deal of money to make a good business and they get labled as a trust funder because there is no way they could be that young and earn the money....

Tundra you and your rancher friend can kiss my ass...tell him to say hi to me if he sees me in town, I doubt he will..

Hey Wyo,

Nice site. Nice operation.

Love to get my wife and daughter up there for some fun.

Ric,were stacking the deer up like cord wood down here.25 between Pa and WV.......Killed one Sat that looked like it was hit with a Scud missle.It took the guy who shot him an hour and a half to get to him.He called back on the radio and said the bullet hit him in the shoulder and come out his butt.(Broadside shot????)When he got the deer back to where we were,I asked him were the softball sized hole on the off shoulder came from?????????It seem's a piece of the shoulder blade came off and made a big hole where his butt SHOULD have been.....Gotta love those MatchKing's .By the way it was a first shot kill at 775 yard's.....Can you say GOODNIGHT..

[ 12-11-2002, 07:06: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

Let me get this right. You cry because this dougy character is talking garbage and then you want me to kiss your ass. I'm sure you're a really great business man.

I wasn't preaching anything to you. I just would like to be this dougy guys lawyer,when you violate his clients rights,with your "covert" acts. You'll end up being the one that gets nailed not dougy. For the record I don't know this dougy,I just got a kick out of your ranting and raving about what you were going to do. All of which is actually against the law. Rather than what dougy was doing,which is nothing in the eyes of the law.

Judging from your reaction about the trust funder story,you confirmed the story as true. Nothing to be ashamed of,trust funders and retirees are about the only thing left in the west. Yep there's tons of jobs in PA.,involving the private sector,that pay well enough for a 10year retirement. Not!

Actually what he should do is find out who this creep is then get into HIS personal life and hold it up for all

KB Guns

I said the bullet landed between the front and rear hoofs and under the middle of the deer.

Let me add that, it was a line between the front and rear hoofs. The deer was not hit as we checked.

The shot was taken and would be taken again if the chance arises. 5 more elevation clicks would have downed him.

We all have our favorite way to hunt. You have yours and I have mine.
Maybe we should just leave it at that?

Later
DC

I'll stick with my first post.. the heck with it

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by John Y Cannuck:
my opinion:
Congratulations for making it, here's a kick in the ass for trying in the first place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldnt have said it better...
Congrats on the elk, not my way, but if you are happy with it, when's the BBQ?

Jeffe

[ 12-11-2002, 18:30: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

600 yd. prone can be a challenge,,,even on a "good" day,Can't imagine taking a 500 yd. off-hand shot at a game animal.With the right dress you ought to be able to get closer than that. My personal best is a white tail @ 250 yd. offhand,and I smoked it with a .303 brit.[mil.spec.]I practiced with that rifle at those ranges weekly,,got good enough to pick off 1/2 gal. milk jugs and groundhogs on the first shot,at the same range.

I'll stick with my first post.. the heck with it

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by John Y Cannuck:
my opinion:
Congratulations for making it, here's a kick in the ass for trying in the first place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldnt have said it better...
Congrats on the elk, not my way, but if you are happy with it, when's the BBQ?

Jeffe

[ 12-11-2002, 18:31: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Tundra,

Amazing... you know everything... who's your buddy here...

what I can do is NOT against the law. it is a matter of public knowledge.. which makes me wonder what type of law enforcement you did.. you should know that...

I will worry about my business you worry about your pension check..

who said I was retired... you prove my point you guys spout off before you know anything... the story is anything from the truth, I work very hard at what I do and I take offense to anyone who is jealous of me and then has to spread a rumor that I am a trust funder to ease there jealousy pains and validate there own miserable life.

Take your thumb outta your ass and think about this.. if you do what I did you don't want all the townspeople to know.. thats half of the problem here the miserable idiots got nothing to do but make up stories and think they know it all, just to ease their bordom and miserable lives.

You are right about one thing what dougie did was nothing in the eyes of the law but everything in my wifes honor.. I will deal with that.

Jeffe,

hmmm.. snipe undisturbed animals... thats damn near perfect if your a hunter isn't it...
I am very capable of hitting running animals, I also know that that is a very poor percentage shot. I persoannly don't take that shot. I don't need to kill that bad as to shoot at running animals.. in africa hunting dangerous game thats charging you now thats different.. but qualify your answer first.
I wasn't aware I was polluting this forum. I it is more like defending myself and my wifes honor.. I have no problem leaving here as there is noting for me to learn and by the way it looks you guys don't want to read what I would have to share anyway.
I wasn't over reacting but your idol threat of not challenging you in an ethics battle is just a weak attempt to entice me, to help you, pollute this forum futher..if you like we can do the private message thing. I doubt you have valid arguments to supports what misdirected facts you have.

So if you feel so inclined let me know what unethical act I have done...

your are right about the Elk thing is was pretty much like that.. apparently alot of guys saw these elk moving and positioned themselves accordingly.. gives us all a bad name....

Wyo,
You have a private message.

I don't feel you are polluting the forums, rather, didn't see it being productive to have a one on one discussion in public.

thanks
jeffe

KBGuns,

so explain your counter part ther who says shooting at running animals is OK. Do you really know your gonna hit the running animal....

Look people.. there are uncertanties in both ways of hunting.. It seems to me that because the method of LRH is so new that it automatically becomes unethical or very poor percentage wise .. when in actuallity if done correctly the percentages are as high if not higher than a quick clean kill via SRH.
All that is is pure simple facts.. you can take it or leave it

Myself,I wouldn't care if somebody knew what I did for a living,I've nothing to hide. However,if I was worried about it,I wouldn't brag about my past on a public forum and hand out a personal website with a picture of myself and old lady on it. All of which leads us back to bragging. The operators I've known,wether private sector or federal never brag about what they do. It's kind of like war vets. The guys that are the real deal,seldom if ever talk about it. It's the PX rangers that can't help but share stories. Nah,trust funder hit the nail on the head and evidently all of cody knows it. So much for secrets huh!

I don't doubt for a minute that LRH is possible and doable. Having said that, there are places in Wa that is you made a 600-1000 yard shot and dropped the animal like Thor's hammer hit it, by the time you got to it there would be a dozen 4X4's complete with 30-40 hunters claiming it. Yeah, seen it done, and not many are willing to go to guns over a deer/elk carcass, no matter what you might say or think. Funny thing, I think the law favors first TAG, not first bullet. That old possession thing. I don't think many on this forum would act that way, but this forum is a pretty small representation of what passes for hunter today. If there are any doubts as to meaning, most everyone on this forum is above this kind of conduct, IMHO.

Tundra,

Sleep easy .. I give.. you're right and so is Cody.

I wasn't bragging.. I never scratched the surface. I choose to left the uniformed part of the profession because of know it alls like you. I was in the private sector for reasons I won't discuss.
I know your type. Do boys.. you have your nose so far up the brasses ass you know what he ate for breakfast. You are/were in it for the power trip. That is easy to see by your selfassuredness. You, and your buddy here can talk, laugh and be merry. Be sure to tell him to say Hi and let me know he knows you.. He'll know me when I am in town, my business is all over the side of my truck.. I look forward to meeting him. Think he has enough guts.. Doubt it...

funny how you are interested enough in this forum to call and ask about me... got alot of time on your hands huh.... thats says a whole lot about you

Ignorant fool...

[ 12-11-2002, 09:03: Message edited by: WyoWhisper ]

Tundra,
I have found 'the real vets' will talk about their exploits to people they respect. If none have ever talked to you about it well...

Before you get all ofensive let me compitulate that you have shot more game and poeple then me. No doubt you were a bad mo'fuggun 'banger back in da day, 'ite homes?

Wyo,
Running game is a bit different. It to has many variables, that result in shoot or no shoot situtations. Running gaming in the claer? Wounded already? In most cases I doubt one would start popping at running game over a 100 yards. The point being, should you wound or lose the game some how, you dont have to walk/drive a mile to get to the starting point. I think when Jeffe pulls the trigger he knows he is gonna hit it. Weather he does or not. There is some urgancy to short distance running game. However at 1800 yards, one should not miss, you have basically all the time in the world to get ready. I think you may do this. It seems to me DC does not. DC seems to be of that "this will do it or I will get it next time" mantality. That just aint right.

Either way, I enjoy this conversation. I do not think you are polluting this place. I encourage you to respond, or I will be talking to meself. This is just conversation, no hurt feelings here. None there, I hope. Tho certian low class eliments seem to be going for nerves, reather than conversing. Take care.

Kristofer

P.S. If any one has a trust fund they wish to alive them selves of, I now offer a trust fund elimination service...

[ 12-11-2002, 09:56: Message edited by: KBGuns ]

KBGuns,

Basically DC is one of the guys who has contributed more publically to helping the sport of LRH than many of the forfathers. The amount of knowledge this man knows and is willing to share is unbelievable... Just listen to what the man has to say..

as for this forum I have recieved several e-mails personally that have enlightened me to the individuals who frequent here. Pretty pathetic. Some/many individuals here really need to take a long hard look in the mirror. Well it was fun while it lasted.

see ya.....

Ive been waiting for a reply from my question on page two... anyone gonna answer???

Wyo, not saying I can't be wrong. I have tought I was wrong once or twice before, as it turned out I was mistaken.

Seriously, maybe I am reading him wrong, i know I have been read wrong.

LOL, Jon A, funny I did not feel a thing. I guess the virtual world is lacking in some ways from the real world. Being shure to hit, and not missing are two diffirent things. Thanks for playing tho.

smallfry, That is beyond me to answer. Suprised one of the LRHs has not stepped up to the plate for you.

Kristofer

[ 12-11-2002, 10:34: Message edited by: KBGuns ]

KB and others... I dont shoot at "long" range but in all seriousness I just wanted a hypthtcl question answered. There are so many unknowns in long range shooting I was wondering how they deal with them.
Take care
smallfry

I'll stick with my first post.. the heck with it

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by John Y Cannuck:
my opinion:
Congratulations for making it, here's a kick in the ass for trying in the first place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couldnt have said it better...
Congrats on the elk, not my way, but if you are happy with it, when's the BBQ?

Jeffe

[ 12-11-2002, 18:31: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

KB Guns

We did not take the usual spotter shot that day as we usually do and should have. The 5 clicks were a human error by ME after I looked back to the drop chart after the impact of the bullet hit and I saw EXACTLY where it was.

I did not shoot, my wife did, however I put the clicks on and did not allow for the aditional 25 yds.

Your right, we have no more to converse about.
Hunt your way and I will do the same.
DC

Darryl Cassel

O.k. Here is your load you said you used on that deer. 240gr .308 300 Tomahawk right? Please tell me how were you able to see the animal with your barrel pionted more than 1300" over it's back?

Trajectory Output

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Input Data
Muzzle Velocity: 3235.0 ft/sec
Chronograph Distance: 10.000 feet
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.500
Drag Function: G1
Bullet Weight: 240 grains
Sight Height: 1.50 inches
Sight Offset: 0.00 inches
Wind Range Speed: 0 mph
Wind Vertical Speed: 0 mph
Wind Cross Speed: 10 mph
LOS Angle: 0 degrees
Cant Angle: 0 degrees
Target Speed: 10 mph
Target Angle: 90 degrees
Zero Range: 500 yards
Zero Height: 2 inches
Zero Offset: 0 inches
Temperature: 59.0 �F
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Relative Humidity: 0.0 %
Altitude: 0 feet
Air Density: 100 % of Sea Level

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calculated Table
Elevation: 10.669 moa
Azimuth: 0.000 moa

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 3242.0 5600.9 3.46 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0.000
100 3036.9 4914.6 3.24 7.9 0.5 16.8 0.096
200 2840.9 4300.7 3.03 13.6 2.2 34.8 0.198
300 2653.3 3751.6 2.83 14.9 5.2 54.0 0.307
400 2473.9 3261.3 2.64 11.3 9.5 74.6 0.424
500 2302.3 2824.5 2.45 2.0 15.4 96.8 0.550
600 2137.5 2434.6 2.28 -13.9 22.9 120.6 0.685
700 1979.0 2087.0 2.11 -37.4 32.3 146.2 0.831
800 1828.1 1780.8 1.95 -69.8 43.8 174.0 0.989
900 1685.5 1513.8 1.80 -112.6 57.6 204.1 1.160
1000 1551.7 1283.0 1.65 -167.7 74.0 236.8 1.345
1100 1428.4 1087.2 1.52 -237.3 93.2 272.2 1.547
1200 1317.6 925.2 1.40 -323.9 115.4 310.8 1.766
1300 1220.9 794.3 1.30 -430.6 140.8 352.4 2.002
1400 1140.1 692.7 1.22 -560.7 169.4 397.3 2.257
1500 1076.1 617.1 1.15 -717.5 200.8 445.0 2.529
1600 1024.3 559.1 1.09 -904.5 234.9 495.4 2.815
1700 981.6 513.5 1.05 -1124.6 271.5 548.2 3.115
1800 946.1 477.0 1.01 -1381.0 310.1 603.2 3.427
1900 915.0 446.1 0.98 -1676.4 350.8 660.2 3.751
0 0.0 0.0 0.00 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.000

[ 12-12-2002, 01:48: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

Try actually reading Darryl's posts and you wouldn't need to ask such stupid questions.

Jon A
Why was this a stupid question? I posted what his gun is capable of and being a person that shots often I just want to know what angle his barrel is pionting, to be able to achieve such a shot?
" The only stupid question is the one you don't ask" Besides I know a few long range competitors thats why I'm curious

[ 12-12-2002, 02:12: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

I don't shoot many animals at long range. In fact I don't shoot many animals at any range. I mostly just blunder around and frighten them off. I know there is no real problem in hitting a dinner plate sized target at 1000 yds given one sighting shot. This would be possible with a 30/06 class rifle. It's not something I have any intention of trying although I have the opportunity every year.
I have made an offhand shot on a deer at well over 400 yds. This was kind of unintentional and happened this way....
I was hunting mule deer near Water Valley Alberta on a friend's ranch. I'd been stumbling about for most of the day and had managed to accomplish little except to put my boottracks all over most of the seven section spread. It was mid afternoon when I stepped up to the edge of a good sized clearcut. I looked it over carefully and saw nothing.
During the course of my travels my left sock had started to bunch up around my toes so I decided this would be a good time to correct this. I moved to a stump of proper height and, leaning my rifle up against a nearby log, removed my left boot. I had just set the boot down and pulled up the sock when a 4point buck jumped up about 60 or 70 yards away. I jammed my foot back into the boot and stepped over to grab the rifle. By now the buck was on a skid road that ran around the clearcut and running. I followed him in the 3x scope but this road was in a bit of a depression so all I could see was the head. I'm not a bad shot but felt this was beyond me so I just followed the buck in the scope until he came into full view and stopped and turned to face me. Now, I had not looked except through the scope so I didn't really have a good picture of how far the shot was. He looked kind of small and I was aware that he must be a ways off so I simply pulled up and held right between his antlers ( probably about a foot over his head)and sent a 250 grain Hornady out of the 35 Whelen his way. As the rifle came back down from the recoil I saw the buck whirl and run into some brush.
When I lowered the rifle and looked across the clearcut I thought," Now that was a stupid shot". And indeed it was.
Nonetheless I had to go over and check. It was a long walk over rough ground. The 4 inches of snow made it even worse and I tripped over even more roots than I normally would. When I got to where the deer had been standing I was shocked to see quite a quantitiy of blood on the snow. I was puzzling over how it could have got there when I heard a thump off to my right and looked up just in time to see the buck stand up. He decided that, although I might seem dumb, I would sooner or later catch on so he turned and ran. He gave me an opportunityfor a quick shot as he crossed a little opening and I took it. Somewhat to the surprise of all concerned it was a solid hit and the hunt was over. The first shot had hit low in the brisket, just inside the ribcage. It had travlled along and exitted just ahead of the navel. Unfortunately for the buck, the bullet was on a path to emasculate the poor guy which it did. I think he just laid down to contemplate this state of affairs more than any other reason.
I had thought he was quite a bit closer and from looking through the scope would have guessed about 300yd. I figured the bullet would take him in the neck at about shoulder height. My hold was remarkably good and the crosshairs seemed to settle into about a 6 inch circle prior to the shot.
In the end it was a stupid shot to take but fairly well done. Still, I was lucky to get the deer and wasn't proud of my choice to shoot. It was a poor decision. Regards, Bill.