My guy in Gillette has a cancellation for this year from Nov.13-18. This is for a 5 day hunt for mule deer or a combo deer/antelope. The deer only is $3500 and the combo is $4250. He can take up to 5 people in this time frame.

You will see lots of game and a 160-170 B&C mule deer should be an expectation. Antelope should run around 14".

For pics and futher info. contact me anytime.

Regards,

Mark

Thought you said cancelation Hunt.

Only $3500.00. What a deal. I assume this is a hunt the Black hills where the season is open that time of the year. Go a little further west towards the Powder River where there are some big deer and a guy could easily get onto a great private land hunt for half that price. It won't be free, but $3500 is a ripoff. Mark, I'm not directly trashing you, and I know you are just doing your job, but I live here and I am seeing what the outfitting industry is doing to the average hunter. Most of the landowners here don't put up with it and just charge a trespass fee to people who they feel they can trust. Most of the landowners here hate outfitters.

And I don't think this is the appropriate place for you to be advertising. We like to talk about guns and hunting here. If you want to sell something (you are working as a travel agent) you should put it in the classifieds forum.

quote:

Originally posted by MrHawg:
Only $3500.00. What a deal. I assume this is a hunt the Black hills where the season is open that time of the year. Go a little further west towards the Powder River where there are some big deer and a guy could easily get onto a great private land hunt for half that price. It won't be free, but $3500 is a ripoff. Mark, I'm not directly trashing you, and I know you are just doing your job, but I live here and I am seeing what the outfitting industry is doing to the average hunter. Most of the landowners here don't put up with it and just charge a trespass fee to people who they feel they can trust. Most of the landowners here hate outfitters.

________________

Mr. Hawg, check you PM's, please. Thanks.
Dungbeetle

Well! Good morning to you guys too!

First blaser93 I assume your comment about thinking that this was a cancellation hunt meant that you thought it would be a deeply discounted affair. This is a full price hunt because the outfitter gave the whole deposit back to the clients. Consequently we want to sell it at the original price.

Mr Hawg, Before I ever offered anything on these forums I got permission from our host Saeed. You certainly are entitled to your point of view but I'm afraid you will see an add from myself or Adam on these forums with some frequency. Also I think you will find the folks that have booked with me from these adds on the forums will tell you they are pretty happy with their decisions and don't feel ripped off at all.

Sir, This will be my last response to this because Internet pissing matches are useless and tiresome.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

First blaser93 I assume your comment about thinking that this was a cancellation hunt meant that you thought it would be a deeply discounted affair. This is a full price hunt because the outfitter gave the whole deposit back to the clients. Consequently we want to sell it at the original price.

Mark,
FWIW, I had the same exact thought as did Blaser when I saw your Headline - "Cancellation",,,,

Compare what you have here to, say, Spyro's recent note on the cancellation hunt for black bear on P.O.W. Island which is/was one bodacious good deal. Yours is more understandable now with the full deposit refund explained and that does say a lot for the ranch owners and their considerations of life's little surprises on folks as s*it sometimes happens.

Also, Mark, I think I know the answer to this question but not totally sure; How would the tags be handeled for this at this date? Is it past the application deadlines for both species?
Thanks.

Giving MrHawg the benefit of the doubt, he is registered as a new member and most likely is not familiar with postings such as yours and others that are made here. It is common practice and generates some good exchanges of info.
Dungbeetle

Dungbeetle,

I understand your POV on the cancellation hunt but never the less it was a cancellation.

As for your second query this area where the hunt is offered is private land surounded by private land and the take off of game does not meet the WY G&F targets so there more than likely will be leftover tags for both species. If for some reason the client did not draw his deposit would be completely refunded.

I probably would have ignored MrHawg's comments but I felt he needed to know that my activities on the forums are sanctioned by Saeed and these forums are for everybody. If you have followed my posts you will see that controversy is not my style nor do I try to insight it.

Regards,

Mark

I have to agree with Mr. Hawg...$3500 for a Region A mule deer hunt is a SCAM! You would have to pay a trespass fee (a few hundred bucks), but a guy could hunt on a ranch north of Gillette along the Powder River and have a chance at killing a monster buck, compared to what's along the little Missouri.

Heck Mark, you're getting FREE ADVERTISING on this forum, the least you could do is give a guy a deal!

Just another example of the outfitting industry screwing the average hunter.

MG

quote:

I have to agree with Mr. Hawg...$3500 for a Region A mule deer hunt is a SCAM! You would have to pay a trespass fee (a few hundred bucks), but a guy could hunt on a ranch north of Gillette along the Powder River and have a chance at killing a monster buck, compared to what's along the little Missouri

__________________


Madgoat,

Check your PM's, please. Thanks.

Mr. Hawg has been on this forum as long as the majority. I think when it changed to the new forum he lost his posts. He had another name at that time. I can't remember it exactly, deer43 I think.

PS, the State of Wyoming does not owe the outfitters a living!

quote:

Madgoat,

Check your PM's, please. Thanks.

___________

Madgoat, thanks.

I did not mean any disrespect ,you are right
thought it would be dicounted.but I understand
if all the deposit is given back , it is full price. this is almost unheard of.

one of the things i like most about this site is that there is no censorship and a man can speak his mind. other sites are not that way. i think there are a few guys here that have been banned from another site for speaking their mind, they know what i am talking about...

as for refunds, interesting story.

10 days after 9-11 we were supposed to go to b.c. for moose. i was throwing up and bleeding from my work at ground zero and knew that we would be at war shortly and ran the risk of getting shut out of the country when they shut the air space down again. asked outfitter to carry money over till next year. not a refund. he said he would keep the full price which had been paid already. we went, had a lousy hunt and got stuck, no planes flying. got home several days late too. nice to have an outfitter that will work with you. not like we go to war everyear.

cold zero,

I could not agree with you more and I said it in my previous post. "These forums are for everybody."

As for the deposits being returned by the outfitter these are the kind of folks I like to work with. If you don't know the outfitter and that he will treat your clients fairly how can you sell somebody a hunt with them?

Regards,

Mark

I basicaly agree with the comment about Outfitters screwing it up for the local guy. I know many ranchers and yes they like the cash in the fall, but during the rest of the year when they need help where is the outfitter??? Guys used to go and help hay fence or what ever was needed inexchange for a deer or a goat. but when they are outfittered up the rancher can not!!! allow any hunting on his property not even non target species ,birds small game etc.. It is hard for a local to find a good place to hunt around here in NE wyo. The public land gets hit pretty hard and the only private land available is small places that don'y hold a lot of game.

ELKMAN2

I know how you feel and I sympathize with you. I'm not being sarcastic here at all. The places where I hunted during my youth in the 60's are nearly covered up with houses and if the land I hunted is not a housing development NO TRESPASSING signs are everywhere and you couldn't get near with a gun if your life depended on it.

I don't think you can blame everything on the outfitters. If the landowners didn't need the cash they wouldn't have exclusive agreements with the outfitters. Perhaps the outfitters with their cash are helping the landowners hold onto their land a little while longer so they don't have to sell to a developer so he can put up a subdivision.

Regards,

Mark

Since when does a private landowner owe anyone anything?

Would a doctor offer his services free? Would you?

Give me a break fellas. If the landowner can sell hunts to make more money, more power to him.

I am concerned about big money squeezing out the little guy, but telling someone what he or she cannot do with their land is socialistic.

quote:

Mr. Hawg, check you PM's, please. Thanks.
Dungbeetle

Mr. Hawg, thanks.

cal 30, best read your own signature because if nothing else you have confirmed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikey:
cal 30, best read your own signature because if nothing else you have confirmed it.

THAT was hilarious. Thanks for the laugh Mikey.

Mikey: I could not agree with you more. All doubt has been removed.

As for Mark Young, folks may or may not know that he is an expert at what he talks about and he is consistently professional and polite in all his posting on AR (this thread is a perfect example). Mark Young is an asset to AR. I like it that he is always so positive even when people are being rude..."Good morning to you too..." was a nice response.

As for me, anyone who lived in Dillingham, Ak for as long as he did, and anyone who has hunted Alaska and Africa the way he has, deserves everyone's respect. I do not know Mark Young other than here on AR..but I do know Alaska a little bit and how hard it can be to hunt here. I have made one trip to Africa. Anyone who hunts seriously know that it is always a challenge.

When Mr. Young offers folks good opportunities to hunt deer or antelope..I think he is providing a great service.

I will suggest that "Mr. remove all doubt" may be on the wrong website. Being angry and mean to a man who objectively deserves our respect is not called for.

Mark, I always enjoy reading your posts.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Mikey:
cal 30, best read your own signature because if nothing else you have confirmed it.


THAT was hilarious. Thanks for the laugh Mikey.

________________

Ohhhhh, there's even more and it gets better.

Check out his posts (3) on page 7 of the Non-Res Hunting Rights thread on this forum.

"Wisdom begins at the end".

Several of my friends have big ranches. They have thrown the outfitters out. They still take paying hunters but would not tolerate the outfitter telling them what or who they can let on their land.I help them all year long and I can hunt on their land. Like I said before in june when the hey needs to be put up where is the outfitter??? Yes the cash in the fall is great, but if that is keeping them operating they are in serious trouble any way..I know of one operation south of here where the outfitter came in and shot 38 mule deer bucks off of 20,000ac. He got $2500.00 per deer and most of them were not trophy deer. It is just wrong sometimes. Short term profits with no concern for the long haul. They will just lease another ranch for the next fall.

Well, if you don't like the prices, don't pay them. After all, it is America. I just got a brochure for a hunt in Africa that is ridiculous - 55k for a 21 day (daily rates). Do I write a note telling the guy who sent it he is on drugs?

I like these hunts postings.

ELKMAN2

What you mentioned is definitely an abuse of the land. I'm talking a few bucks that are 4 years or older off 35,000 acres. One party last year counted over 70 bucks the first morning of their hunt. This ground is definitely not over hunted or abused in any way. If you don't believe my stats I can provide phone numbers to back it up.

It would seem from some of the comments I have received that some people assumed my add was directed at rural Western residents. I assure you I would not expect you to even consider paying for a deer hunt anymore than when I lived in Alaska would I have paid $10,000 to shoot a moose. My adds are directed at people that don't have easy access to the wondeful resources that are available here in Wyoming.

Like it or not the outfitters are not going away and they may very well be some of your hardest working neighbors.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

My adds are directed at people that don't have easy access to the wondeful resources that are available here in Wyoming.

Your adds are directed at people who have $3500 bucks to blow on a deer hunt, not the average joe.

Big-un

quote:

Well, if you don't like the prices, don't pay them. After all, it is America. I just got a brochure for a hunt in Africa that is ridiculous - 55k for a 21 day (daily rates).

So what is the difference there AZ writer? You can't pay for a $55K African Safari, MOST of us cannot afford a $3500 mule deer hunt.

I guess $55K isn't ridiculous after all!!

Why don't we have a page on this forum just for wildlife pimps...

MG

Here is the difference:

If I wanted to book a 21 day hunt, I know I can do so with any number of reputable agents at a price less than 55K. But there are some who want and can afford only the finest, so let them book those hunts. Same goes for the deer hunt. As Mark pointed out, he wouldn't pay 10K to hunt a moose in Alaska, but lots of guys do. Why? Time is worth money. It is nice to meet new people. Who knows?

I have met some interesting guides. Anyone who has hunted with Bert How in NZ knows that guy is damn funny and almost worth the price of admission. One PH I met is flithly rich and simply hunts because he loves to. Tipping him was wierd, knowing he was retired at 40 and doing what he loved to do.

At the end of the day, we all have choices. Which guns we use, who we hunt with, how much we get into shape, even how much effort we put into a hunt. Choosing to use or not use a guide is no different.

Hey Madgoat, nobody is asking you to pay $3500. If you read Mark's post you would know that he understands a WY resident would not want to take this offer. As he says, the offer is directed toward non residents who do not have the same opportunity as we do.

Secondly, I happen to know Mark. He is an upstanding, honest and trustworthy outdoorsman with a ton of hunting experience.
I lean on him for information on Africa hunting and he is always willing to help me out.

Some of you guys just need to relax and not take things so personal!

John

quote:

Hey Madgoat, nobody is asking you to pay $3500. If you read Mark's post you would know that he understands a WY resident would not want to take this offer. As he says, the offer is directed toward non residents who do not have the same opportunity as we do.

Wyoming residents couldn't afford his offer, even if they wanted to take it. The way I see it, if he is getting free advertising on this forum, he can take a little bit of .

And as far as opportunity is concerned...these outfitters lease up everything in that corner of the world. Heck, the nonresidents have MORE opportunity than the residents do! A resident can't hunt any of those ranches anymore...they are all OUTFITTED! Get outta your oasis of public land in Cody and see for yourself. Public land is far and few between over there, and those pieces that are accessible are hunted incredibly hard.

$3500 in this corner of the world is a RIP OFF...plain and simple. I don't care if Mark is a saint, this deal smells bad...

MG

Madgoat: That is the Amrican way...ranchers/landowners should be able to charge the going rate and turn a profit on the resources on their land.

I do not think you are suggesting that all land be made public...(are you??). I do think that one of the major reasons there are such great wildlife populations on private land is because access to those resources are governed by the land owner...both state and federal land, for the most part, is hammered and abused. Wyoming is full of public land...go hunt there if you cannot afford the price of admission to good hunting grounds...or do what the ranchers did and buy some land.

quote:

What you mentioned is definitely an abuse of the land

_


Mark,

Out of interest, are you the sole and only booking agent for this property or are there others who book hunts there with this Landowner?
Thanks.

Interesting topic and one most are passionate about. I haven't researched this in awhile, but several years ago I calculated (roughly) the costs of purchasing and maintaining horses, equipment, supplies, and services per day for the outfitter and compared it to the price they charged me. I didn't see how they could stay in business and make a profit. I have yet to take my first guided/outfitted hunt. The majority of my hunting has been in wilderness areas or on private ranches and has been relatively inexpensive. I see no point in getting agitated over prices I could not pay. I guess it doesn't bother me that others have more $ to spend than I have.

I fail to see how offers such as these are "ripoffs". The price is posted up front , if you think it's too high , don't buy the hunt .

It's just that simple .

In Montana not far from where I grew up people are paying 3500 and up a week to hunt. I thinhk most hunts are targeted to people who dont have local access.

I can still call and ask to go hunting, sleep in the bunk house and eat out of the owners fridge. A few weekends of free fence repair and helping to brand calfs has follwed me 25 years down the road. But someone living in LA or Texas might not have the same chances.. so for them 3500 is not a bad deal.

Look at whitetail hunting in Texas the "trophy fee" can be over 3500. I use trophy free loosly because pen raised deer do not equal hunting IMHO, but almost everyone at work goes every year and enjoys it.

Different strokes for different folks..

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
I fail to see how offers such as these are "ripoffs". The price is posted up front , if you think it's too high , don't buy the hunt .

It's just that simple .

What a concept.

Dungbeetle,

I don't have an "Exclusive" with Cal but I think most of his business comes from word of mouth.

Well, I guess if you all want to pay $3500 to have your hand held and led around like a little puppy dog for an opportunity to shoot a mule deer so be it. I hope you enjoy your pickup ride around the ranch...

In this part of the country, $3500 for a hunt is a RIP OFF, I figured I would call a little BS becasue there are a lot of other ranches (many to the west of this location with BETTER quality than what you'll find on the Little Missouri) that are a lot cheaper. Sure, it is a do it yourself type hunt..but given the opportunity I don't need some ranch hand telling me how to hunt mule deer (I guess it is obvious that some of you do).

I'm sure many of you who think this is a bargain (most of which are posting from out of state and don't have a clue what goes on in this part of the world) don't have any problem paying that much for a hunt. In fact, I'm sure few of you could stand trying to put something together for yourself, you need someone to do it for you and have it down NOW! Well, pay it...frankly I could care less. I thought maybe I could save you all a buck or two, but if you don't want to listen to a little advise on someone who is familiar with this part of the country...your loss.

MG

A quick search of the internet shows an average Mule Deer hunt in Whyoming to be 3-4.5k

I do not book hunts in the US nor do I plan on starting but that appears to be the going rate on the net and at the shows.

But you could care less which is why you took the time to post 4 times on this topic?

bear tracks

Rocking 7

Bridger