Hey everyone,

I shot my first Black Bear 2 days ago!!!!
It's not a monster (124 lbs) but I am shocked at how tough the animal was.

It was the last day of bear season after sitting over my bait for 9 evenings. I had only seen a sow with 2 cubs come in on the 4th day and nothing else. At 636 PM the bear came in, paused by the barell and I shot him right behind the shoulder with my 45 70 Marlin Guide.

I shoot a 300 grain Nossler partition doing 1835 fps. The bear was actually rolled over.
I quickly chambered another round and was going to shoot again when I thought he was going to die right there. I was watching the bear kick on its back. I hung up my rifle and threw by bag out of the stand and prepared to get down when the bear was up on its feet and running away like a racehorse, crashing through the woods before I could grab my rifle for a second shot!!!!!

I listened to it crash away thinking it would not go far but it went away further than I could hear into the thick woods. I got down and went over to the bait to examine where I shot him. I found hair, blood and lung tissue on the ground and smeared against the sapplings behind where the bear stood. I went to the spot where the bear crashed through the woods and immediatly picked up a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could follow. Good lung blood spurted out on either side and was 3 1/2 feet high up on the trees!!

The bear went down hill and back up hill and across a stream!! All the way leaving a huge blood trail. I found it pilled up after about 200 yards (that is the minimum distance, it may of been a little longer)

Cleaning out the bear showed that I popped both lungs but shot just above the heart. The bullet went completly through and left an exit wound about double the size of the 45 call entrance wound.

I am tanning the hide for a blanket for my kid and will make sausage with the meat.

Tough animal!!!!

Congrats on the hunt. I am using 300 grain Remingtons at the same speed this fall in my Marlin 1895. I hope it does as well on whitetail and hogs. I have never hunted bear, a friend of the family several years ago shot a wonderful cinnamon colored bear in NM and made a lovely rug. He gave us most of the meat and I remember it tasting somewhat sweet. Was it private land or a lodge? Thanks for posting.

Good luck and good shooting,

Eterry

use heavy bullets!

sectional density over fps...

garrett uses 540 grains and i would use those or load 550 gr. beartooth bullets piledriver. if you must use an expanding bullet use north forks 350 gr 45-70 bullet

http://www.northforkbullets.com/458-350fp.htm

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/21

http://www.empresspublications.com/stuff/45-70-525.wmv

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp


what say you?

p.s. the june issue of shooting illustrated ran a cover and spread on the stainless guide gun and garrett hamerheads with the same set up as i have. a must read, the garretts went through as expected and got a large black bear.

That 56 caliber entrance/exit hole does wonders for deflating critters. Had you shot it in the shoulder, he would have run less, but nevertheless you made a grat shot. Congrats. We see lots of bears taken up at our Bowlin Camps place and the 45/70 is a good black bear round, but for the big brownies, I'd get something better. jorge

Honkey
Congratulations on your bear.
Yes they can be tough. That is why I like to hunt them so much. For bear over bait the 45/70 is about perfect. Bear meat is very good to eat.
I have eaten several and never tasted a bad one.

For deer and black bear that's a great bullet .But you never know .I hit a deer with it .The bullet smashed the shoulder joint ,also breaking bone just above and below the joint , went through both lungs and exited .It still ran 50 yds !! For browns use something heavier.

You guys are correct, for hunting brown bears I would use a 350 or 400 gr Premium bullet.
For protection against browns I would use a heavy cast bullet like the Garretts. I have shot his loads in 3 different 45/70's and at 100 yards they group good. [not that that matters at protection distances]

The .458" 300 grain Nosler Partition Protected Point defies some commonly held views on sectional density. The bear probably would have run farther with a double lung hit from those heavy hard cast.

Gotta agree with Jackfish.In penetration test run by Rick Jaimeson the .458 Nosler PP out penetrated every other bullet he tested including the 400 grain Swift A-Frame/350 Speer(Made for the .458 Win Mag)/350 Hornady and the 400 grain Speer.The Barnes 300 grain XFN was next in penetration out doing the rest also but the Nosler did it by over 8 inches.

I know a good friend who shot a 500+ pound Black Bear through both shoulders breaking the far one with an exit useing the 300 grain Barnes.

I don't think SD has as much to do with penenetration in the 45-70 as does bullet construction as shown in penetration test.

Congrats on your Bear and I also agree a cast bullet through the lungs would "Probably" resulted in the Bear traveling farther as cast do there best work through the shoulders and jacketed through the lung heart area..

Jayco

jaycocreek...was the north fork tested?

Boomstick-No it was not and it is one great bullet like the 350 Woodleigh for the 45-70/450 Markin users that feel a premium bullet is necessary for what they hunt.I plan on doing some un-scientific penetration test myself using The 405 Kodiak/350 Woodleigh/350 North Fork/300 Barnes XFN and the 300 Nosler Partion to see for myself which one holds up and penetrates the best under harsh conditions.

My wife likes to dig them out and calls the 300 Barnes XFN the "Cement" bullet. I enjoy it also.I rather doubt there would be much difference if any in the bullets I listed on game and killing power.

Shot Placement works the best but for angle shots or contacting bone on large critters the Premiums stand out in the 45-70/450 Marlin as with the other calibers we all love.

Jayco

Several years ago I lungshot a north Texas whitetail buck with a 405 grain hard cast in my Ruger #1 45-70 at about 75 yards. Bad move on my part; I found the bullet before I found the deer. The round went thru both lungs and knocked the deer down, but he got up and ran in the brush. I got out of my stand and found where the bullet had gouged a furrow in the ground, hit a rock and bounced out of the ground. I put the bullet in my pocket and tracked the deer in a misting rain for about 200 yards. Deer had a 45 caliber hole going in and a 45 caliber hole going out. If the bullet hadnt hit a rock I could have reloaded it. For deer and such I stopped using hard cast bullets for the 45-70. Jacketed bullets are too inexpensive, and had the deer went another 50 yards it would have crossed a fenceline onto property that the owners didnt like hunters. I have used Remington 405 and Sierra 300 gr. with good luck. And I always try for a lung shot as I like the meat too much for a shoulder shot on the rather small deer around here, (125-150lbs ave.) My .02

Good luck and good shooting,
Eterry

hard cast is for lots of penetration (big bodied animals to get to vitals or break shoulders or cns shots)...deer need explosive expansion

*** NOW IMAGINE A LARGER BEAR ..... CHARGING !

Even a 124 Pounder is amazing when pumped on adrenaline . But it's not just the adrenaline , -- it's in the genes and physical make up of Bears. -- They're not just Tough , they're incredible .

On many threads , the proponents of the newer type , souped up , high pressure , heavy bulleted , Hardcast , .45-70's ; claim that these are adequate for even large Alaskan Browns .

Doc. Herrero ( Author ) and other Wildlife Biologists tell us that any bear Brown or Black is very determined and hard to stop when charging .

Grizzly and Brown bears , ( I'm not sure about Blacks ) , have a history of attacking harder when wounded .

Most , ( about 95% ! ) Bear Attacks , give the Rifleman , one to five SECONDS , to stop the bear , at penalty of not surviving .

Most presentations on a charge are frontal , and under the stress of a 35-44 feet per SECOND incoming predator !

Best odds are that you'll be lucky to get 1 to 2 shots into the center of the oncoming target .


IMHO , -- the .45-70 is a fine weapon for bear HUNTING , where anticipated ranges are short , and especially in heavy cover where you need a short , fast handling Carbine .

Sows with cubs , -- Feeding Bears , and wounded bears , however , all constitute a higher probability of Charges ; -- and it is not too uncommon for Hunters to encounter these .

Under the ( above ) circumstances , a Bear-STOPPING cartridge , has to be a real Pole-Axe .
African D.G. Stopping-Cartridges are not overkill for Bear Attacks .

.45-70 is an adequate Hunting cartridge up to and including Browns , -- but if one wants to have a long and unimpared life , -- a clear distinction should be made between Bear-Hunting,
..... and Bear-Stopping .

---------------------- MMCOUGAR .

Couger-Your at it again...Take the 300 grain Barnes XFN in a 45-70 on a 500# + Black Bear..It went through both shoulders breaking the far shoulder with an exit...Hummmm

A very good friend of mine did it and he will probably kill me for posting this pic of the Bear..His son doesn't have a 350 grain .458 woodleigh face.


The 45-70 is more than capable to take Big Bears with the boolits available like the Barnes/Noslers/Woodleighs and last but not least/The North Fork.

Jayco

--- JAYCO ---

Yep ! , -- still tearing and comparing . -- trying to get down to the nitty-gritty on the great controversy as to whether the .45-70 is barely adequate or simply IDEAL to handle a Large-Charging-Bear .

Anytime a highly experienced Brown Bear Guide from Alaska ( e.g. - Phil Shoemaker ) writes on the subject , -- I listen .

Phil says he carries a .45-70 with heavy-hardcasts a lot , ( and he lives in HEAVY Bear Population Country ) .

But you have to keep in mind that Phil is not your , run-of-the-mill Shooter . -- Maybe you or I would be safer with a little more , " Enough-Gun " ??

I learn as much ( or more ) from good opinion that challenges my beliefs , as I do from those who agree .

Further , as I accumulate a body of knowledge , I try not to close the door on new information .

Notice that Phil also favors the .458 Win , -- ( and has carried a .505 Gibbs ) . --- He's still talking about them , and I get the impression he has , in no way , given them up in favor of the .45-70 , for all situations .

So I deduce that when He feels the need , or moves into a Guiding situation of greater jeopardy , -- he carries the heavier rifles , -- Stopping-Rifles .

What I'm looking for is the IDEAL Stopping-Rifle and cartridge , for pure Bruin-Defense applications .

I am no enemy of the .45-70's , -- I think it's a great and classic Cartridge , -- and I'm only concerned , personally , in conditions where it's use could reduce my chances of living a little longer .

Your picture of the 500 Pounder with both shoulders broke is impressive .

But , so far , no one , whose credentials I admire , -- has said that , under the circumstances of most large Bear Attacks ( i.e. , close , fast , and frontal ) ; -- that a .45-70 of ANY type , has the stopping power of a .458 Win. / 500 Gr. , ( or up into the African Stopping Cartridge levels ) .

--- And everything that I've learned , says that you need every ounce of power you can shoot on these profoundly tough animals .

True , not everyone can shoot these heavies well , -- and if I couldn't , I'd sure as hell drop down to something with less recoil . --- But with all the recoil reducing options that are out there now , -- that situation has improved .

Nose To The Trail , ------ MMCOUGAR .

I don't understand how a heavier bullet would have performed any better. This light bullet opened up and passed all the way through....Sounds perfect for me. I just think you have to equate the 45-70 to a bow shot. It will cut a clean (large) hole through the lungs, and critters run until they expire. I would argue that that bear would have died much more rapidly to the same hit with a 243 and a 100 grain partition. Even if it didn't exit the wound hemmorage would be much much more. I would still never carry a 243 for bear, I would carry something large enough to break shouler and then penetrate. My point is that I would not expect the 45-70 to kill anything quickly with a broadside lung shot, it just doesn't have any energy. (much like a bow or muzzleloader

Bears are mean SOBs. When they are down, Kickem even if you happen to be kicken with a .45-70. You never could be to sure. What if he decided to arouse himslef while you were on the ground? Always hope for the best and prepare for the worst with bears.

To tell you how tough black bears are I shot a pretty good one in Maine last month. Perfect broad side shot with my 06 and a 180 grain Fail Safe. The bullet entered behind the right shoulder, liquified the lungs, tore the heart in half, and blew out the other side...never hit a bone. The bear took off like I shot it out of a cannon. It only went ten yards and did a Pete Rose-esque head first slide under a fallen tree...prolly died mid stride. I could not believe that with the amount of damage done it did not just fall where it stood. If you shot a deer like that it would've been dead before it hit the ground.

these north fork bullets are designed for the lever action 45-70. 200% expansion 98% weight retention usualy. this will zip through bone and put the smack down on a bear. these and the 300 gr nosler partition with its grenade affect and great penetration are great for hunting and you have the heavy hard cast for the last two for a cns shot i.m.h.o. you could hunt with pure hard cast if you can get a good heart shot cns or break both front shoulders it will be the diff of the bear running 10 yards or 50 yards...both will work.