I do think you are pretty simple you come from a state that charges residents $5 for a deer tag and non $25 so you think those same fees should apply to the western states. So you give to the elk foundation and don't hunt elk do you give anything extra to your own state fish and game to help support them. If you cann't afford to play the game then don't get in it.

Here is some more interesting reading I copied.


http://www.seazsc.com/new_news.htm

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:
I do think you are pretty simple you come from a state that charges residents $5 for a deer tag and non $25 so you think those same fees should apply to the western states. So you give to the elk foundation and don't hunt elk do you give anything extra to your own state fish and game to help support them. If you cann't afford to play the game then don't get in it.

tom holland, it is not a matter if I can or cannot afford it. Hell I could take a few friends and pay for it, but why should I give up my hard earned money that easy. For the record my Family income in well into the 6 figure income. We got that way by not giving it up. And as far as me giving for my own State you bet your ass I do. We have a Quality deer management program and I support it. But the bottom line is fairness. You think I am simple, you need to look in the mirror buddy, I pay more taxes than you probably make in wages. Now who is simple. Learn to spell simpleton. (cann't) is spelled cannot or can't.

kudu56, I may take you up on that offer. If you were serious. This year I am going to Maine bear hunting and next year I am going back to Alaska for another Caribou hunt and wolf. I have been think about a speed goat hunt in Wyoming. I lived in Colorado about 8 year and I plan on going back there to hunt Elk with my brother in-law, we just have not nailed a date or year.

Rehawk1, if I wasn't serious I woudln't have offerd.

If anyone needs some insight into hunting here, I am more than glad to share information or camp.

Just thought I would point out to everyone that in Alaska the feds have taken over management of fish and game on federal lands - and in many places they don't allow non-resdients or even resident of Alaska's urban areas to hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:
Just thought I would point out to everyone that in Alaska the feds have taken over management of fish and game on federal lands - and in many places they don't allow non-resdients or even resident of Alaska's urban areas to hunt.

Rob how does that affect you. I was wondering how much it affected hunting all together. I love to hunt in Alaska and will be going back there next year for Caribou and Wolf. I have found the local people very polite and willing to help. I do self guided hunts.

I'll throw my .02 in here.

I am all for state's rights. I lived in one state and hunted exclusivly in another - venison gets expensive in that situation. I think what most non-res hunters have a problem with is the large difference in costs of a license. When a non-res comes to town to hunt - they dump a lot more money than just the license. Gas, food ect.

I would like to see something more along the lines of if you are a non-res you pay more but a reasonable amount its not like the F&G guys are spending extra $$ on seperate game for the non-residents. If the state mandates that a non-res needs to use a guide (like the analogy - I can go hiking in the "wilderness" by myself and the state says I can survive that but carry a rifle at the same time and now I am a danger to myself?) then the non-res license should be cheaper. After all the state is getting revinue from not only the license but income taxes and such of the very outfitter he/she has hired to guide them. The state is getting $$.

When I come to Wyoming hunting I bring my own horses feed & food. The only thing I spend in Wyoming is 1 tank of fuel going in in Kemerrer or Cokeville & another going out. Maybe a hamberger or breakfat but that is it.
I sure dont help out with there economy at all. I know of a lot of hunters that do the same.
I am sure if you are coming in from further away or using an outfitter you are contributing more.
I may be wrong just my humble opinion but we should pay more for our tags. We are using there resources.
The problem as I see it a non resident permit will go out of site with this lawsuit because they will have to regulate the permits for the locals & the only way they can is price & that means the average guy gets shut out.
This lawsuit is wrong & as we will see it is going to open a big can of rotten worms.
IMHO
There is nothing wron with the fees they charge now $31.00 res. $273.00 n\r Wyoming. Utah $40.00
re. $263.00 n\r. Actually both are a pretty good bargain.
I am new to the forum I guess I should introduce myself. I just found this a week ago. I had shoulder surgery (torn rotator) & I am kind of down for a few weeks. I love hunting & horses & anything in the mountains or away from the city. I have been a giude for trophy elk in Utah & New Mexico Antelope.(Gave giuding up because no time for my boys & there hunting)

Trying to compare a Georgia (or wherever back east) deer tag to a Montana elk tag is an apples and oranges comparison... deer, back east, have essentially become vermin... they've bred like rabbit's and are mostly overpolulated throughout their range. Heck, most states back east would do well to give tags away. Elk are significantly more marginal throughout their range and the opportunity to hunt them should first and foremost go to in-stater's. High fee's are designed to limit the out-of-state hunting impact pure and simple...

Brad I totally agree with you. There needs to be a higher fee & fewer out of state licenses given.
But with this law the out of staters will be competing for the same permits as the locals & that is wrong. I am not comparing eastern whitetail to western just the cost rite now between local & n\r in Utah & Wyoming.
You are correct in the hunting of deer in the east & there #'s. In the west it is completely different & getting worse with the development going on.

Utahcowboy, welcome to the forum. It's a nice place!!! I had rotator 7 years ago, along with reconsrtuctive on most of the shoulder. Hurt like hell! When I came to, they had forgotten the spinal,no painkiller and no blocker! WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! That sucked. I am glad I had it done though, 90% recovery and feels good.

quote:

This lawsuit is wrong & as we will see it is going to open a big can of rotten worms.
IMHO
There is nothing wron with the fees they charge now $31.00 res. $273.00 n\r Wyoming. Utah $40.00
re. $263.00 n\r. Actually both are a pretty good bargain.
I am new to the forum I guess I should introduce myself. I just found this a week ago. I had shoulder surgery (torn rotator) & I am kind of down for a few weeks. I love hunting & horses & anything in the mountains or away from the city. I have been a giude for trophy elk in Utah & New Mexico Antelope.(Gave giuding up because no time for my boys & there hunting)

I don't think this lawsuit is going very far beyond what it already has. Our senator Mike Enzi is trying to pass legislation to preempt the lawsuit now. What George Taulman is counting on is the other states wimping out and caving in to a threat of a lawsuit. I do not believe he has the resources to fight each state indiviually.

I know what you are going through with the torn rotator cuff. Been there done that. Not fun. If you are ever around Laramie give a shout.

Thanks wyojo & kudo56. Tired of being broke down. With this weather I want to be out & about. I guess it will feel better when it quits hurtin!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Utahcowboy:
When I come to Wyoming hunting I bring my own horses feed & food. The only thing I spend in Wyoming is 1 tank of fuel going in in Kemerrer or Cokeville & another going out. Maybe a hamberger or breakfat but that is it.
I sure dont help out with there economy at all. I know of a lot of hunters that do the same.
I am sure if you are coming in from further away or using an outfitter you are contributing more.
I may be wrong just my humble opinion but we should pay more for our tags. We are using there resources.
The problem as I see it a non resident permit will go out of site with this lawsuit because they will have to regulate the permits for the locals & the only way they can is price & that means the average guy gets shut out.
This lawsuit is wrong & as we will see it is going to open a big can of rotten worms.
IMHO
There is nothing wron with the fees they charge now $31.00 res. $273.00 n\r Wyoming. Utah $40.00
re. $263.00 n\r. Actually both are a pretty good bargain.
I am new to the forum I guess I should introduce myself. I just found this a week ago. I had shoulder surgery (torn rotator) & I am kind of down for a few weeks. I love hunting & horses & anything in the mountains or away from the city. I have been a giude for trophy elk in Utah & New Mexico Antelope.(Gave giuding up because no time for my boys & there hunting)

Yes Welcome, I also have had torn rotator, I had to have 2 surgeries to repair it and also some bone removed. Out for 6 months. Not fun.

Now as far the non resident fee's I do not mind paying a little more for my tags. But not an outrageous price.

Brad, Higher fees do not impact hunting, the number or total tags dictate that. Sure the resident hunters should get more tags.

What concerns me the most is the federal government setting the rules for hunting in individual states. We have a pretty friendly govt now, but sooner or later Hillary or her ilk are going to win one, and I dont want her gang setting the rules.

I live in Texas and hunt in the mountain states - New Mexico the most recent. Sure I would like to pay less. But what I really want is predictability.

I figured last year that what I really wanted was an elk hunt, and not necessarily elk horns. I put in for a cow tag, drew out, and hunted from my truck and a backpacking tent (that does not mean road hunting). Lunch today was elk fajitas. I plan the same thing this year, with a better tent or maybe an RV. Meanwhile I am saving preference points for a bull tag and a horseback hunt in Colorado.

I live in Washington and hunt out of state each and every year. I dread that this bill will spread to the states that I hunt in. I also think that ultimately, it needs to be decided in the Supreme court as to the states rights to control their game dept, including fees and numbers of tags to non residents. I am sure if it is held that limiting numbers is a restricion of fair trade, then having a higher price will soon follow for the same principles, or unprinciples in mho. The only reason that fees were not adressed in that lawsuit is that they were not part of the suit to begin with.

I feel that a lot of the folks in those states sacrifice in relation to salary to be able to live and hunt at home. BTW Redhawk, your family income is based on earnings and that is directly proportional to living in a place that pays higher salaries and not being frugal with last years income ("giving it away"). Montana and Wyoming are NOT on the list of good paying states. And if you are going to give spelling lessons, check your own, "western States following there example", it is "their". And feel free to check mine, I don't go back and do a spell check and that does not invalidate the validity of what I say.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
I live in Washington and hunt out of state each and every year. I dread that this bill will spread to the states that I hunt in. I also think that ultimately, it needs to be decided in the Supreme court as to the states rights to control their game dept, including fees and numbers of tags to non residents. I am sure if it is held that limiting numbers is a restricion of fair trade, then having a higher price will soon follow for the same principles, or unprinciples in mho. The only reason that fees were not adressed in that lawsuit is that they were not part of the suit to begin with.

I feel that a lot of the folks in those states sacrifice in relation to salary to be able to live and hunt at home. BTW Redhawk, your family income is based on earnings and that is directly proportional to living in a place that pays higher salaries and not being frugal with last years income ("giving it away"). Montana and Wyoming are NOT on the list of good paying states. And if you are going to give spelling lessons, check your own, "western States following there example", it is "their". And feel free to check mine, I don't go back and do a spell check and that does not invalidate the validity of what I say.

Customstox, thank you for the spelling lesson, I made a mistake. Was it spelled wrong or did I use the wrong "Their". In other words it was spelled correct. Other than that did you have anything of value to add to this conversation, or just stirring the pot.

So what you are saying is just because someone chooses to live in an area with low income potential they should have more rights for hunting than others? Now I choose to live in a State with better earning potential that I should be punished for it? We all make choices in our lives, I could of move to Wyoming or Montana, but I chose to live where I am, and should not be discriminate agents for where I reside.

Another link to George's actions, and stance on Resident vs. Nonresident hunters.


http://www.conservationforce.org/info/get_hunter_art.cfm?art_id=100

All I'll say is that when the folks at PETA hear hunters fighting over this it must be music to their ears.

We need to take reasonable positions that can keep us on the same side.

quote:

Originally posted by McInnis:
All I'll say is that when the folks at PETA hear hunters fighting over this it must be music to their ears.

We need to take reasonable positions that can keep us on the same side.

I could not agree more. But you will have people that just do not care. I have lived in several different States due to being in the Military, North Dakota, South Dakota, Colorado, Nebraska, Arizona. I hunted each State at one time as a Resident. I have never had a dislike for non-residents. I have always seen them as just another hunter regardless of where they lived. It is ashamed that there are people out there that do not like you just because you don't live in there State. So much for the "UNITED STATES".

Redhawk,
It seems you entirely missed the "lesson". If you have to resort to those kinds of arguments against other views you will be treated the same or worse. You come across like a fart in a diving helmet. And if my views differ from yours, that does not make them invalid and yes I do feel that living in a state entitles the residents to what might be termed first rights.

You can not vote in Wyoming, you don't live there . Now how does that sit with your view of what the United States means. Each and every State has always had the right to manage it's own gamen herd and hopefully it will in the future. BTW, you blew the use of "their" (possessive) again. Now tell me, how did that comment make you feel? Did you feel foolish and that the value of your arguments were diminished or did you just feel anger at me. And how would Tom Holland feel when you corrected him. We all knew what Tom was saying and what you said.

quote:

We all make choices in our lives, I could of move to Wyoming or Montana, but I chose to live where I am, and should not be discriminate agents for where I reside.

Good Lord... Redhawk, my Great-Grandfather seven times removed was Thomas M'Kean the first "Govenor" (then called "President") of Deleware... guess what, that fact doesn't mean squat and doesn't entitle me to vote in Deleware nor does it entitle me to resident tag fees... grow up.

3 years ago I was hunting in the Greys River area. We left our trucks & packed in 2 days before the hunt opened. When we came out & were driving out I was amazed at the # of Utah hunters in that area. I felt bad for the locals. It was full of Utah hunters. There were 15 utah trucks before I saw 1 Wyoming.
Dont get me wrong I am not against out of staters but if that was my old hunting area & it was full of n\r I may be upset.
We need to work together to iron this out in whatever way we can so the peta's & the anti hunting people do not get ahead of us.

Who cares about the spelling as long as we understand each other. I never were very good at that.

FYI Montana ave. year income is just above West Virginia at 49. Reason? VERY small population spread out over the 4th largest state. Almost the same size as California. For you Cal guys out there imagin your state with less than 1 million pop. The hunting will be great but because of the small scattered pop. little work will be genrerated and pay will be low. If we open the state to non-resident hunters they would overwhelm us financially in no time, in many areas they already have, bird hunting is a virtual no can do for the average Montanan. Well, you might argue that non-residnets bring in jobs from hunting and fishing. The is pure crap, I know because I was in the outfitting business for 15 years and it doesn't pay squat. Hunting and fishing generate nothing but low paying service industry jobs. I have no interest in living on a "hunting plantation" for a bunch of wealthy out of staters and I doubt that many other residents of other western "hunting" states do either. You choose to live in a warm climate with a great job market, your costs include having to travel to where the game heards still exist. We live in a cold climate with a poor job market and get to hunt near home. You made a choise as did I, now live with it as I do, and stop whinning.

Out of state hunters do pay their own way usually ten times as much. You have the right to limit non resident tags to a reasonable number to preserve your wildlife as well. For what ive seen in Montana resident hunters get pissy if the cant shoot their elk from the road. When I go out of state I hunt 12 hours a day for fourteen days and thats why Im successful. If its federal land then the state doesnt support it anyway.

Customstox, I have no anger toward you. I really could careless about how you feel about me. I don't know you and I dam sure do not have to take any lessons from you. Now do you feel better.


Brad who in the hell is talking about voting? What does resident vs non-resident have to do with your reply? Did I say I wanted to pay the same as residents.
Go back up a few post and you will see I even said, I think residents should have more tags than non-residents.

HunterMontana, have you been to Delaware? It is not as worm and sunny as you may think. We have our share of bad weather here also. North Easters, hurricanes, ice storms. Sure we do not get as cold as Montana, and yes I have been there.
If there is no money in Outfitting then why are there outfitters. I am sure they do not do it for the sear pleasure of taking people out hunting. I know of a few outfitter here in little Delaware that take out clients for Deer, duck and goose hunts and make a lot of money. But they also have regular jobs as well. As far as Delaware being a high paying job area, you are sadly mistaken. There is a lot of minimum wage paying jobs here. There are a few that make good livings, Doctors, Lawyers, Real estate investors, but other than that most of Delaware is migrant labor for farms and chicken plants. So you will not get any sympathy from me about poor wages in Montana. I worked my ass off to get to where I am today. I went through not having a pot to piss in, so don't make it sound like poor poor me, I live in a State that has low paying jobs. Take that crap some place else.

So go ahead all of you that want to take another shot at me, I got my flame resident drawers on.

It's not my opinion that we have low wages here, it's a fact. I happen to have a good paying job here, but it would probably more in Delaware. If money was my main concern I would not live here, my choise. I don't ask for sympathy, especially from anyone whose total experience is limited to a few weeks a year in my little corner of the world, and I don't give any out either, since I have no idea if it's deserved or not.

You may be paying more for a tag, but so do I, any accountant will tell you about oppurtunity costs, and there are plenty living here. The reality you negelect is that hunting is an expencive hobby, get used to it or watch network TV for fun.

As far a outfitters making a good living, you said it yourself, most have a second job, trust me it's not just to fill in the time between hunting seasons. And yes, the main reason is for the shear pleasure of being "out there", the clients are either something you enjoy, most all are really nice people, or put up with, some are just self rightous know-it-all's, but hell their money spends and if they call back for next year, you can always be booked up.

Increasingly, land owners here in the west are leasing out their land to the highest bidder, good for you if you can afford it. Residents in "3rd world states" are getting priced out of the hunt. Yippy! Now you guys with the cash will have a free shot at all the game right? You don't vote here. The ballot box is the last refuge for the irrationally pissed of. If PETA floats an anti-hunting issue in Montana are you going to vote against it? If we pressure the legislature to allow only resident hunting will you vote against it? If the outfitting industry finally pisses off enough residents by locking out everyone who lives here or promoting a bill that would make trespassing a felony (they are trying that right now), do you think your call to my local representative is going to influence him or her? The answer to all this is if the voters of a state don't give a dam about preserving hunting it's because they don't hunt anymore. The Brits are about the most agressively anti-gun, anti-hunting nation around and all but the landed gentry are locked out from field sports and even they are in deep trouble. It may be only a few years before any hunting or gun ownership is a memory. Do you want that here? Keep it up, you'll get your wish. Several western states that used to have large populations of hunters passed anti-hunting laws in the last few years. Not suprisingly in those states the only hunting available is fee hunting and it wouldn't shock me one bit if a few ex hunters voted for those laws out of spite.

As someone pointed out, PETA would just love this pissing match we're all having.

HunterMontana, I understand where you are coming from. But look at this point. The Western States are raising the prices for hunting licenses and tag fees for non-residents, I do not mind paying a higher fee, but not an outrageous one. You ask me to look at Brit's and the way it is an anti-gun, anti-hunting nation, and how they made it a wealthy mans sport. What do you think the Western States are doing? The same thing!

So who is the blame for all of this, not the hunter that is forced to pay higher prices, but the States that raise the fee's.

I do not want to see our country go that direction, that is why I am an Endowment member of the NRA, I support the Rocky Mountain Elk foundation, I support local State Wildlife agencies. And I make donations to any Wildlife fund I can. So I do not wish for any action you described.

I think we as hunters could all work together and fight agents States trying to price everyone out of hunting. In the end we all loose. This pissing contest needs to STOP.

REDHAWK1,

I've followed this thread and every other one that addresses fees. You keep coming back to one thing and that is a $3400 elk tag in AZ. Easy solution. Don't buy the TAG!!!! Problem solved. The other western states are actually very resonable when it comes to tags.

Take my home state of Colorado. It is the only place that you can walk in and buy a bull elk tag over the counter and hunt elk. Price of the tag $450. No guide needed. Largest elk herd in the world. Don't want a bull, fine put in for a cow tag for $250. You will have to draw that one, but since they have a herd over carrying capacity, the tags are pretty much a gimme. Got a cow tag, you can also get a bull tag and take 2 elk for $700 since a limited cow tag is a "B license. So, for less than a grand you get to hunt in one of the most beautiful states in the country for the largest existing herd of elk around and you have 2 elk tags in your pocket. Hell, you might as well pick up a bear tag while you are at it. They are available over the counter as well. We allow you to hunt deer at the same time too. Put in for one of those tags. Grand total on tags would be about $1200 and you have a bull elk tag, a cow elk tag, a deer tag and a bear tag in you pocket and you can just about hunt wherever you please. Price a mulitiple species hunt in other places and you will see that is a bargin.

As to disparity in the cost of tags, I as a resident will pay $30 for the cow or bull tag. Non-resident is 8x higher for the cow, which is pretty good compared to other states. Bull is a little higher because of the demand, but still reasonable. We also reserve 40% of limited tags for non-residents so your odds of getting the tag is excellent. And we are raising resident fees next year so the cost will have a better ratio then.

Special limited tags have always been a supply and demand issue. Remember that the usual non-resident tag in AZ will be nowhere near $3400. You are talking about a special situation. If you dn't want to pay the price, then put your money elsewhere. Kind of like the people that pay $10K-$15K to hunt elk and one of those big private ranches. The state owns the game, but the ranchers control access to the private property. I think it is outrageous to pay that much for an elk, but there is a market for such things. AZ probably figures that there is a market for a $3400 elk tag if it carries certain perks. It's called business.

The Colorado Division of Wildlife does not get any money from the state coffers. It is funded by the sale of licenses, voluntary contributions through state income tax refunds and matching federal funds such as Pittman-Roberts. If they could figure out how to get someone to cough up over 3 grand for an elk tag, I'd be all for it. More money for conservation. Of course I would never expect someone to pay it unwillingly. The intention to spend money belongs to the individual that owns the cash.

If you deem the cost of tags to be too high, then stay home.

Mac

quote:

I do not mind paying a higher fee, but not an outrageous one. You ask me to look at Brit's and the way it is an anti-gun, anti-hunting nation, and how they made it a wealthy mans sport. What do you think the Western States are doing? The same thing!

Higher fees? Outrageous fees? Who's to say...? That's the thrust of my points... state's have right's and the state's have the authority to make those decision's whether Your Egoness deems it correct or not... hence the voting comment. You just don't "get" the US apparently...

Redhawk1--Had some surgery to have some bone removed. Out 6 months. Bet it hurt like hell when they reinstalled it.

Try this on. Lower fees and over the counter sales for non-residents mean much more demand for access to game.

Sucess rates for ALL hunters on public land will drop drastically. Trespass fees and outfitter fees will increase dramatically for anyone wanting to actually kill anything.

Residents get pissed off. FWP goes to draw tags for everyone. Residents still pissed off, poaching becomes common, vandalism against out-of-state vechiles in hunting areas rises.

Farmers start to get pissed because non-residents, and most residents now that they only get to hunt every other year, just want to shoot a big bull or buck and the cows and does are eating them out of house and home in the off season.(This is already happening in Montana by the way.) FWP issues cull permits to farmers who shot anything near the haystacks, bucks and does, bull or cow, they're just a pain in the ass and a bullet and a backhoe solve everything.

Sounds like worst case stuff but it isn't and you can find examples in any western state to back up this line of thought.

The numbers of hunters must be controlled in order for the sport to survive and yet there must be enough access to maintain interest, a delicate balance. So do you want market forces to control the sport or "Big Nanny" in Washington or where ever? Hunting is an expenceive sport, get used to it or go do something else.

Ltes see here, Redhawk and I want nonresident tag fees to top out at 5 times the resident fee. Doesn't sound so unreasonable to me. I have no problem with limiting the number of tags sold for game management. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, what is wrong with the rest of you guys? What do you care, it's not YOUR MONEY.

One thing nonresidents seem to forget is a lot of locals get the shaft and have to find new units to hunt because some out of stater is competing with them for tags in their local unit. It took me 4 years to draw a deer tag in my home unit because I am competing with nonresidents. So...I get to now take off work, and drive across the state trying to find a new unit to hunt, that is bullshit. In theory the only thing keeping competition down is tag fees.

And most of you guys are full of shit saying you cannot afford it! You sit here typing on a $1000 computers, make your $400 a month truck payments, shoot your $500 gun with $300 scope, yet you cannot afford to pay $400 once a year to hunt elk in Colorado? That is $40 a month stuffed under you mattress. And if you cannot afford to spring for a tag, maybe your priorities aren't in line. Don't buy champagne on a beer budget. And why would anyone from Colorado want to go all the way to the east coast to shoot a scrawny little whitetail? That is why your state doesn't charge $500 for a nonresident, because no one would pay it.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman:
Redhawk1--Had some surgery to have some bone removed. Out 6 months. Bet it hurt like hell when they reinstalled it.

Good one, I guess it sounds like it was reinstalled. I was out of commission 6 Months.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcatcher223:
One thing nonresidents seem to forget is a lot of locals get the shaft and have to find new units to hunt because some out of stater is competing with them for tags in their local unit. It took me 4 years to draw a deer tag in my home unit because I am competing with nonresidents. So...I get to now take off work, and drive across the state trying to find a new unit to hunt, that is bullshit. In theory the only thing keeping competition down is tag fees.

And most of you guys are full of shit saying you cannot afford it! You sit here typing on a $1000 computers, make your $400 a month truck payments, shoot your $500 gun with $300 scope, yet you cannot afford to pay $400 once a year to hunt elk in Colorado? That is $40 a month stuffed under you mattress. And if you cannot afford to spring for a tag, maybe your priorities aren't in line. Don't buy champagne on a beer budget. And why would anyone from Colorado want to go all the way to the east coast to shoot a scrawny little whitetail? That is why your state doesn't charge $500 for a nonresident, because no one would pay it.

I don't know where you hunted on the east coast, but we have 170+ class deer here in Delaware. Weight on most doe's are 100 to 120 lb. that I shot last year. I shot several 130 class deer in the past 3 years. My son missed an opportunity at a 170+ class deer about 250 lb just this past season.

I do not mind paying the license fee and Elk tad fee in Colorado, I never said I could not afford it. It is the proposal form AZ that has me upset. And the treatment of non-residents by resident hunters. Once AZ does it the other States will follow suit.

The non-residents hunt in almost all if not all States, and residents are put out everywhere. That is just part of hunting. In Delaware, a lot of farms are leased by non-residents. I hunt one farm in Delaware and some State land. I also have a lease in Maryland. It is just a fact of life we all have to live with.

Hell I think of Colorado as my real home. I went to school there in Colorado Springs from 4th grade to 12th. I still have family there. And I plan to hunt there someday.

HunterMontana, like I said before I can afford to hunt, but think there needs to be some kind of fairness about the costs. That is all we are asking.

As I continue to read these posts I don't see much new, but have some new ideas myself.

I wonder how many are whiners here and how many are willing to be activists..... I basically got my act together, and have written a couple of letters to my dept of wildlife (none on this issue since CO has a pretty fair system) and if I had to I would attend one of their MANY workshops they have each year to evaluate the upcoming hunting seasons. Why don't you guys do the same? Heck, find out a couple of months in advance (check their web site, email them, etc.) when they will be holding a meeting, come out to do some scouting/fishing/varminting, show up to the meeting and say "I drove here from _____ to attend this meeting", and I guarantee you would get some attention. What did it cost you? Much less expensive than hiring an attorney to circumvent the US Constitution that if successful will set a precedent that WILL be abused in the future on this or another issue, we don't have to pay higher fees that the states will have to charge to fight this litigation, you have some fun in the wild, we all are heard, we can all respect each other, and move on. Any takers????

Deke.

quote:

You ask me to look at Brit's and the way it is an anti-gun, anti-hunting nation, and how they made it a wealthy mans sport. What do you think the Western States are doing? The same thing!

Redhawk: I hunted the UK for Red Stag - it was 400 bucks per day and included one stag per day. If you think that is too expensive, then we are on different planets.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

You ask me to look at Brit's and the way it is an anti-gun, anti-hunting nation, and how they made it a wealthy mans sport. What do you think the Western States are doing? The same thing!

Redhawk: I hunted the UK for Red Stag - it was 400 bucks per day and included one stag per day. If you think that is too expensive, then we are on different planets.

AnotherAZWriter, don't add crap to my post. I don't even know the costs for hunts in the UK. I quoted what was posted to me about Brit's anti-gun, anti-hunting nation by HunterMontana. So maybe you need to ask him about that.

So please don't try to jump on the get Redhawk band wagon to try and make yourself look good.