The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Opinions on high fence elk hunting?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Opinions on high fence elk hunting? | Login/Join |
| <allen day> |
Ski, I've hunted elk for nearly thirty years, but never on some sort of "high fence" elk ranch, and I'm not about to start at this point in time, but then I've lived in a state with a high elk population and millions of acres of public land (not to mention some huge private ranches) all of my life. Now for the flip side: In Africa, there are places where animals are hunted on properties enclosed by high fences. These parcels are so huge and the country is so wild and unadulterated that unless you just happen to drive up to one of the fenced boundries, you'd never know you weren't hunting in totally open bush, and the hunting is completely fair-chase. In some situations on properties of this type, if a stalk gets blown for some reason and you do not score on the specific animal you were hunting, it's likely that you won't see that animal again. In other words, the fence does not matter at all to the fairness or experience of the hunt. In Texas, it's 90% private land, and deer (plus exotics) are a cash crop (and very important ones) and fenced ranches are standard fare. They have been for many years in the Lone Star State. Once again, if the property is big enough, and if the hunting is properly conducted, you'd never know you were hunting fenced property. As I see it, there are plenty of elk to go around these days, everyone wants a good bull, and we have an aging hunting population (the mountains get steeper) with plenty of money to spend on quality hunts. Cattle aren't that profitable, but hunting can be. So if some rancher wants to produce trophy elk, fence his place, and conduct hunts for same, more power to him. Just as long as he has a big place and offers only fair-chase hunts, I say, "Why not?" This sort of thing will only increase as the years go by. Every hunting operation needs to be judged on its own merits. If it's a small place where it's basically a canned, no-effort, unfair deal, then I'm against it. If it's real hunting and it's conducted fairly, I think it's fine for the right customer. AD | ||
|
| <Terry P> |
I think that is very sad that someone would publish a story about "hunting" elk on a high fenced 1000 acre track. It's becoming more and more popular to high fence a place and grow big deer and elk. To me it's not much of a hunt. More like shooting fish in a barrel. I certainly wouldn't be bragging about it much less publish a story about it!! There has to be quite a number of hunters that don't think like I do. These so called "hunters" are the ones keeping these places in business by paying thousands of dollars for a bottle fed "trophy animal". High fences are why we have good South African hunting but these are much larger places. I wouldn't have a problem with hunting 30,000 acres that is high fenced for plains game. But...hunting hand fed elk on a 1,000 acre track. Never!! Terry | ||
|
| one of us |
Yes I have read several storys lately on hunts like these when you read thru the fine print you realize they are paying big bucks to hunt fenced in critters. It is big bussness to buy trophy animals from game farms let them lose at a ranch. Then have some one pay to shoot them. A lot of are so called expert hunters that shoot trophys every year are doing so on these game farms. <> Well I guess that if thay are willing to pay for it it helps keep the pressure off the public lands. You can almost be certain if the "Ranch" offers pay by the size of the rack it is a put and take outfit. | |||
|
| <SkiBumplus3> |
Let me be clear about this: I have no problem with a guy paying to shoot any animal behind a high fence. I have a huge problem with an outdoor writer doing it and writing a story about what a great hunt it was. I also get stomach pains if the guy hangs the 375 bull on the wall and makes up a story about how it was harvested. I plan to send an email to "Big Game Adventures" thanking them for saving me $50 because I won't be subscribing to their publication. | ||
|
| <Terry P> |
Allen Day, I would agree with everything you posted. Every place needs to be judged for what it is. As the population increases there will be more and more game farms and if done right they would be enjoyable to hunt. I would like to add that most of Texas is not high fenced hunting. There are a quite a number of high fenced ranches down here but I have never hunted one. I don't know the percentage but at any rate..5000-10000 acres of south Texas is alot of country and I wouldn't have a problem with hunting something like that ( personally I wouldn't like it as much as open range). There are also 800 acre places and smaller that have a high fence that I just would not hunt. Good post on this subject Allen. Terry | ||
|
| Administrator |
Gentlemen, As some of you rightly mentioned here, there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone doing his hunting anyway he wishes. But, the problem arises when a canned hunt is published as a fair chase hunt. I think this is happens more often that we like to think. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
|
| one of us |
1000 acres sounds like a lot of land but let's keep in mind that it's only 1.25 miles square. Of course terrain, etc would play a part in a hunt but lets face it, there isn't much room for game to escape. | |||
|
one of us |
It's not real hunting and I don't like it at all. I'd rather don't hunt than shoot a fenced animal, even is it's 1000 acers. Johan | |||
|
| one of us |
We have several of those operations here in Colorado and IMHO I think they suck! The one up the road from us has a billboard size sign along the highway telling unsuccessful 'hunters' that they can stop in and get their elk. I am sure the ARF's must love these operations. But if there is a demand for something someone will always try to fill that demand if a buck can be made. Other than gun writers, who hunts at these places? I hope I never get that desperate for a set of horns. Note that CWD may put a lot of these guys out of business. C.G.B. | |||
|
| one of us |
Pay-hunting and fenced properties selling "hunts" turns my stomach. While I agree that an individual's right to own property is essential for any free state, and while I support individual free will - we've seen the point where this overrides what is arguably our most basic right - the right to hunt. I would go further to say that the hunting instinct is, undeniably part of our very make-up. This goes beyond fences, I think. We're giving up something of ourselves here. Who was that who said: "man is his own best domestic animal"? In any case, I think that the Texas model for the future of hunting is just that - a model. It's not hunting in my opinion, irregardless of its appearance. It does appear to be the future however. What a shame. | |||
|
| <Lobstick River> |
I do not classify shooting an animal in any type of enclosure as hunting. If an individual wants to pay big money to someone to go and shoot an animal in an enclosure so be it, but never call it hunting. | ||
|
| <razorback> |
TerryP, i just wanted to comment on what you said about the population increase. the population is actually going to decrease in the next fifty years. here is why. the average american family has 1.9 children. so every mother and father is replacing themselve right? wrong. statistics show 1 out of every 25 teenagers will die before they reach the age of 25 because of an accident or cancer or something. so what I am saying is that if every family in the world has two kids, then the population will decrease. by the way, america has one of the highest children per family rate in the world. Italy has 55 million people and their rate of child birth per family is so low that in twenty years they will only have 50 million. I got all this off nightlinej. | ||
|
| <razorback> |
Oh and to reply to the high fence hunting, it is bullshit. i say get off your lazy ass and work for it. I wouldn't feel like i accomplished anything. that is why my wife hunts on my family land and I go public only. that way I know i earned my kill. when i hire a guide for out west, it is always public land or 100% fair chase and no gurantees of a kill. | ||
|
| One of Us |
I pretty much agree with Allen on this. I've never paid to hunt and don't plan to start, but if you go to Texas, you dang near have to pay or you don't play. Most of you would sing a different song if given that choice. Pay to hunt or sell your rifles and take up basket weaving. Most of the "high fence" hunting ranches in Texas are very big and the owner has invested big bucks in the thing. Usually the quality of their animals is good and very little difference in the "sport". On the other hand, no one should make the story other than what it was. If it was a "canned hunt," say so. I wouldn't tell any yarns about how I tracked the critter 40 miles across the desert waste, etc. The original example here sounds like the author pretty much did that so I'm having a little trouble getting too hot about it. Plus 1,000 acres of the right terrain can be quite challenging. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
It all depends on the size of the ranch and the terrain...I have hunted on some fenced ranches, and so has most anyone who has hunted RSA, Zimbabwe, and other parts of Africa. Many were very challanging indeed. A 1000 acres normally would not qualify as fair chase, but if it is thick enough with brush and thorn then it can be a damn tough hunt without any guarentees... I would hesitate to be too judgmental until I'd been there and done that, which many on this board have, and it kind of reminds me of the old saying the guilty dog usually barks the loudest... All hunting areas are fenced and have boundries in todays world..It just acceptable by degrees, depending on who you are, and where you stand. I always wonder if any of us were offered one of those fenced $10,000 hunts free of charge, if we would turn it down in disgust as we indicate...I don't think I would, I suppose I would just have to make the best of it and shoot that 400 B&C elk or whatever. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
Ray, that may well be one of the rubs. Some lard-butt flying in, shooting a hand raised trophy, having one of his lackies dream up an appropiate stalk rift with danger and skill and flying out with a record book head. This sort of thing is certainly not new. As you have a lot of experience in Africa, I'm sure you've heard of the PH's training a pride to come to a silent dog whistle. My thoughts are these animals should not be elgible for a record book. As to me passing up a high-dollar canned hunt, I THINK I'd pass. A long time ago, I grew up enough to realize that hunting and killing aren't the same thing. In all probability, the author of the story was getting a freebie for writing the story. [This message has been edited by beemanbeme (edited 04-24-2002).] | |||
|
one of us |
Given my druthers, I'd rather hunt on a million plus acres. In a perfect world nearby public land would have plenty of pheasants too. I have been fortunate to hunt some interesting places on three different continents (six different countries)and I'm not done yet. But all that said, I'm not going to completely bad mouth hunting on a pheasant preserve or high fenced area for bigger game. IF that is all that is available, then so be it. There have been times when my son's leave time was very limited and there were no local hunting seasons open. Time did not permit for organizing a hunt 1000 miles away or across an ocean. So we've spent a day chasing a wild boar or doing a tower shoot for pheasants. To add some challenge to it we would stalk a particular critter, use handguns, muzzleloaders, or grandpa's ancient shotgun. We recognized it for what it was, didn't b.s. anybody about where the "trophy" came from, and chalked it up as a day afield that was better than sitting at home watching television or talking about hunting. | |||
|
one of us |
No true hunt takes place on a fenced 1000 acre piece! I grew up shooting ground squirrels in bigger hay fields. We should all raise a stink with the magazine every time a canned hunt is published. Admonishment goes a long way toward the popularity contest of who gets published! I find it hard to believe this person is dumb enough to admit blowing several stalks on the same animal in a yard! He should be ashamed of himself. True what Ray said. They probable gave him the hunt free if he'd write it up, but from a professional standpoint he didn't NEED that opritunity for a story unless he sucks anyway as a hunter and author. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote: I'd drop it like a lead fart. I agree with you on degrees. Canned hunting in America started out small and has grown steadily in direct proportion to those "hunters" who would pay for its convenience. Bush skills take years to develop and woodsmanship requires a type of observation that is totally lacking in todays society. We moderns are not patient, we want our Big Macs RIGHT NOW! I should note that I'm talking specifically about American canned hunting. Africa is a different story alltogether. I'm not a hater. I have the money to go cage crawlin. I just don't, and I won't. But I will point out that this is not the way it ought to be. So if I be barking - it's just my pride talking.
| |||
|
| <Elliot Viker> |
First off, I own and hunt my own land for deer hunting. I live in North Dakota, and I farm in ND, MN, SD. I do not have the time due to harvest intervals to get in on a lot of out of state hunting. I have not hunted a high fence operation, but at this time in my life (I am 35) if I Wanted to hunt Elk or a lot of other game than deer, it would have to be in an operation of a high fence operation. I would hope that they would be run in such a way that the game is indeed hunted. When you think of it, most people hunt a much smaller area for their deer than 1.5 square mile. I think that if animals are shot at, they learn to avoid humands. | ||
|
| One of Us |
I've been on some hunts from hell on less than 1,000 acres. What I find pretty sorry about this writer's hunt is that he had SIX tries at the same animal. Given enough tries, probably any of us could have bagged this elk. But there are several factors contributing to hunting enclosed area, regardless of their size. One is the economic demand of guys wanting trophy size game and willing to pay out the nose for it. Today many "trophy animals" are artificially grown to varying degrees. If hunters create a demand, some one will fill it. Simple economics. Next as population densities and state regulations go up, MOST of us will see "canned hunts" as the only hunt option and going to the highest bidders. Again, simple economics. As I suggested earlier, when most of us are faced with hunting enclosed areas or not hunting, we will lose our religion pretty fast. As for these "canned hunts," I have a couple of big rancher friends who provide just such lands and their deer are wild as hell, the terrain rough as hell, and about as many hunters come out empty handed as hunters on any public land. So what's the difference. About all the hunters are REALLY buying is a place to pitch their hunting camp! No one should get the idea the animals are tied to a tree! BIG difference in hunting enclosed lands and a GUARANTEED hunt. ------------------ | |||
|
| <500 AHR> |
Unfortunately I believe this is a direct result of the high cost of elk hunting for the nonresident. Seriously, consider for a moment what a nonresident guided elk hunt costs ($3500 and up). Now most of these guys want a trophy animal. The success rates can be very poor (less than 30%). It doesn't take much thought here when temptation comes knocking. The nonresident says heck I'll pay this game rancher $3500 on up for a true trophy elk. Remember many of these game ranches advertise confidentiality; therefore, no one will be the wiser. Anymore, if all I wanted was a trophy to hang on the wall I would probably go to a game ranch and shoot an animal raised specifically for wall hangin! If I wanted to hunt I would be in the mountains slugging it out. There is a difference. Todd E | ||
|
| one of us |
Stop and think about this all ye holy ones...the guy that sets in a stand to shoot a whitetail or in a baited Leopard blind is hunting say less than 300 yds in any direction...Hmmmmmm!! The guy in a duck blind, the turkey hunter, the elk bugler, all questionable practices?? perhaps to some. I am neither for nor against anything as long as it is legal, but I have seldom hunted on small acreages, but if it is fair chase I will, and I alone will make that decision. ------------------ | |||
|
| <Tigar> |
Ray I think you are missing the point - using a blind, a tree stand or a call are just methods of trying to outsmart game and are skills that usually take some time to do well. Animals can also get smart to them and learn to avoid certain areas or calls. Killing an often semi-tame animal in an enclosed area doesn't take skill. The question is fair chase. If you hunt from a stand you may only hunt a few hundred yards any direction, BUT the game can choose whether they even want to be in the same county with you. I'm sure most us have hunted a certain meadow/waterhole etc dozens of times and wondered if there was any game within a mile. Sometimes after a snow, you can walk the area and find out that there indeed isn't more than an animal or two for miles. If the area is only 1 square mile (fenced) - guess what? You also say that nearly all areas are fenced or bounded in some ways these days. What do you mean? You are lucky if 1/100th of 1% of the land out west is high fenced - regular barbed wire fences don't count, they never deterred a deer or elk from going anywhere. Maybe I misunderstood your point. 1000 acres for an elk is a joke. Anyone who has hunted them much has seen times when they just up and leave. It is nothing for them to go 10+ miles in a day. On public land you often spend at least half your time trying to zero in on their approximate zip code. I mentioned semi-tame because the couple of operations in Colorado that I am familiar with raise them right in a little community, in little 5-acre sections just like cows. They get a lot of exposure to people and cars. When some "you pick the word" (not hunter!) comes along to buy his elk, they put the elk out on some high-fenced land and he kills it. They don't live out there, getting used to getting shot at. Of course, as mentioned, not all are like this and the amount of wildness can cover a spectrum. My point is if you are trying to convince people that it is still hunting, why the high fence? Plant some good food crops, enhance the habitat or whatever, and if the area is large enough and the pressure low enough you will have game. If the area is too small or you hunt it too hard - no game -fair enough. I might normally personally detest the act, but not condemn others that do, like many others mentioned. However, in this case I think these operations do affect me (and all REAL hunters). The percentage of the population that actively hunts is getting pretty small; the antis are an even smaller group. The huge majority is the indifferent ones in between. However, their impressions are critical. Many don't get much exposure to hunting, so what little they get is important. I'm convinced that the average person out there would find the act of killing semi-tame, farm raised wild game in poor taste. If they get the impression that that is what hunting has become now, they are much more likely to side with the tree huggers and their legislation. Then we all lose! (Unfortunately, how their store bought beef met its end never gets publicized). In addition to this article, I will say that Petersen' HUNTING magazine has published several articles about canned "hunts" lately too. I've complained and I've seen that others have too. The latest issue has two by Blake Shelby. In another one of his canned hunts published last summer he called it "intense". They mention that it is fenced, but very subtly and still try to pass it off as real hunting. Fine if he is too lazy to do a real hunt, but magazines shouldn't publish the junk. I get really sick of how the gun writers prostitute themselves for free hunts and gear. Their stories are often primarily plugs for the free gear they got and the operation that let them hunt free, with just enough hunting information to look good. Todd is right a guided elk hunt cost quite a bit, but I also don't like how almost everyone (especially the gun writers) talk like a guided hunt is the only way to go. Being from Colorado, I was often surrounded by more out-of-staters than natives on public land. Those that got out and actually hunted usually did pretty well and the tag cost less than $500. Besides, getting in the woods with some friends and hopefully seeing some game is one of the best parts - killing something is a bonus. | ||
|
| <ovis> |
This subject raises it's ugly head every so often and I guess I'm one of those guys, what did you call us Ray, holy something or others. The last time I gave my opinion on this subject, one of the PH's on this forum jumped me about fences being the same as mountain and ocean "boundaries", which at best is incredibly self serving. However, if that turns your crank, knock your self out, by all means DO IT! I'm proud of the fact I've never been shooting behind a fence. A fence is a fence, is a fence. Challenging? Very possibly could be. Just won't do it myself. I guess I was raised differently( : Ray, by considering your past, I think you were too. | ||
|
| one of us |
I could care less if someone hunts an enclosure or not. I've hunted plenty of private property and 4000 acres is plenty of ground to try and cover in a day and is anything but easy,if you're on foot. The only local enclosure in my area,is a 15,000 acre ranch and they hunt deer,elk,antelope and bison. I've been on the ranch and it's as rugged as most public forests. The states claim that disease is an issue with these enclosures and that may be so,but if you look at past records of what the states have done,you'll find plenty of cases where they've killed hundreds of animals while trying to reintroduce or transplant wild herds themselves. As for record books,who gives a shit if the animal was killed in an enclosure. If the truth was known,plenty of the current Boone and Crockett entries were killed under less then ethical conditions and nobody is the wiser. Not to mention with as many record books that exsist today,you can just about enter a button buck into some bullshit category. Not to mention,the only person that will even care,or notice your name in the book is you anway. In most cases,these enclosures are a last ditch effort to sustain a persons or families ranch,since agriculture has become so hit or miss. The alternative is sell the land and let some dickhead developer build condos and golfing communities all over it. I'd much rather see a zoo hunt operation. | |||
|
one of us |
Ovis quote"However, if that turns your crank, knock your self out, by all means DO IT! I'm proud of the fact I've never been shooting behind a fence. A fence is a fence, is a fence. Challenging? Very possibly could be. Just won't do it myself. I guess I was raised differently" Ditto | |||
|
| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: But Ray, would you be proud of the animal? Would you brag about it? Would you get any personal satisfaction out of it? Knowing you, I would bet the answers are no. | ||
|
| one of us |
I don't have a problem with a hunting writer doing what he/she does for a living - I can read the article or not, but I'd sure hate to see a fenced hunt fobbed off as an open range hunt as that is dishonest. HOWEVER: To you "holier-than-thou" types out there who are talking trash about fenced hunts - Shut Up! - unless you have hunted that kind of operation you have got no point of reference to condemn it. Fair chase, where a WARY (not tame) animal has enough cover and space to have a reasonable chance of avoiding detection by the hunter and if found a reasonable chance of escape is possible on a high fenced operation - I know, I've done it. I've also had some bad experiences with "barnyard" shoots - and I will talk trash about those kinds of places. | |||
|
| Moderator |
Is the person who hunts behind a fence any more or less a "hunter" than the guy who has a guide do all the work for him?? [This message has been edited by Pete E (edited 04-24-2002).] | |||
|
| One of Us |
quote: Pete, you raise a good issue. And I think this whole thread has gotten out of hand. I've hunter across several states and in my experience 99.9 % of hunters want and DO have as wild a hunting situation as their situation can put together. Which is what any and all or us standing on our soap boxes here would do. To you guys who have millions of acres of free public land to roam at will on, enjoy it while you can. But otherwise, don't be jumping on everyone else unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. In most cases you just don't know what you're talking about. I'll guarantee you in the state of Texas, you DON'T just pull off the road somewhere and you and your gun get out and go tip toeing around the woods all day. The only way to hunt 90% of Texas is to own the land, have a friend who owns it, or PAY somebody to hunt it. Yet I believe the statistics are over 50% of the hunters come home empty handed! Duh, this kinda tells me there is still a pretty good challenge left! I doubt Texas hunters have a higher success ratio than say Montana hunters. So what's the problem? I don't see one really. Let me add one final thought - Texas has one of the highest deer populations in the nation. So, whatever they do in Texas, it sure isn't hurting the animal population. I've seen ranchers in New Mexico shoot deer down like vermin for competing with their cattle for food. In Texas ranchers try to protect and take care of their deer because they are a vital part of the ranch. [This message has been edited by Pecos45 (edited 04-24-2002).] | |||
|
| <Greg Y> |
Gentlemen. This is a thread that all hunters need to consider. As time goes forward and economics being what it is today, many "hunters" will go to a high-fenced operation and take a "trophy" animal. Purely time and money, and too many people(who have lots of $$$) want that quick and easy fix. I don't have a problem with someone hunting a high-fenced ranch, as long as it a "large"(which is, of course, is a relative term)piece of property and as close to free-ranging animals, as it can be, within an enclosure. BUT, small enclosures(6 chances at an animal!?!?!? ..GIVE ME A BREAK!!) with guaranteed results, need to be published as such, and NOT represented as ANY type of TRUE hunting experience,BUT as a SHOOTING experience ONLY(ESPECIALLY BY SELF-SERVING WRITERS IN HUNTING PUBLICATIONS).I look at anyone of these writers, with countless trophies, and feel pretty sure most came from a high-fenced hunt. Nature simply doesn't grow Boone & Crockett animals behind every tree. They are abnormal in nature, just like 7'+ tall humans are. IT is TRUE that a LOT of South Texas (as well as many other parts of the state) is being high-fenced everyday, and I, for one, am sad to see it happening !! It is, for the most part, an economic decision for the landowners who ,long ago, abandoned cattle as a cash crop, AND now make a much better return on hunting(deer, quail, hogs, varmints, exotics, bass fishing, etc.etc.). The days of the TRUELY LARGE Texas ranch is history(except for a few). AS heirs inherit property, MOST break it up and sell it in smaller parcels(remember the $$$ thing). I hate to see our S.TX. gene pools being artificially controlled, not that some aren't doing a good job, "it's just that Mother Nature has been doing this A LOT longer than any biologist has"...AND THAT IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM ONE OF THE BEST KNOWN BIOLOGIST'S IN THE STATE. What I don't understand is this,,IF a guy is ONLY looking for a TROPHY mount to hang on the wall and ISN"T going to go on a TRUE hunt(and go through all of the processes of a true hunt) then why doesn't he just BUY a set of good SHEDS and have them mounted by a good taxidermist. HE is going to get the same "experience" out of the guaranteed, canned hunt,,,WHICH is absolutely NOTHING related to a GOOD HUNTING experience,,,with great memories!!! THE REALITY is this, most of our grandkids will probably only have most of those types of hunts available to them. I hope NOT, but I fear I am right on this. Man will continue to manipulate nature for his own self-serving will. AGAIN, let me state that NOT EVERY landowner who high-fences his property is bad. Actually, many are good land stewards who spend thousands of dollars trying to improve habitat and the quality of game on their property. High-fenced properties are here to stay and I guess it falls on each individual to determine if that "hunt" is right for them. AS ALWAYS,,Good hunting and Good Shooting..GREG | ||
|
| <Alberta John> |
..pet elk in 1000 acre pen is disgusting..this pathetic loser even had the "quides" drive them past him on day six..i'd be willing to bet that they led the elk past him with a pail of oats in one hand..LOL.. ..i've hunted behind a fence in africa on many many thousand acres and i feel fine about it..we only saw the fence about every second day and it didn't affect the hunting at all..so..call me a hypocrite if you want..but pet elk ain't hunting.. ..the elk farmers in sask laugh at their clients behind their back..these are tame animals..shooting an animal that's coming over to get his ears scratched wouldn't do a thing for me..and i think it's an insult to hunting and hunters that this asshole would write it up as hunting..all he did was butcher a domestic animal..i have no problem with that if it floats his boat..but don't call it hunting.. | ||
|
| <Alberta John> |
Ray, you should come up to Canada..we have no boundaries or fences here..i can draw a straight line to the arctic ocean many thousand miles away from where i hunt whitetails and mooose and only cross one road..and it's about 50 miles north of where i hunt. .plus i'd be willing to bet that you would only hunt fair chase..and i guess fair chase has a blurry boundary that we all have to decide for ourselves...but..pet elk in a square mile is DEFINITELY not it..i've butchered lots of pigs and cattle and wild boars and a few bison..and i'd butcher an elk..but don't tell me it's hunting.. | ||
|
| one of us |
I grant you that I have thrown out a lot of stuff for consideration on this thread that I don't necessairly subscribe to and the reason being to show how we all live with preconceived ideas and tend to judge other practices that sound bad to us... You are correct I am not a fan of high fenced hunting in most cases, however I would like to point out some things that many have overlooked and again these were preconcieved notions based on a lack of trial and error on their part... High fenced game is hunted 12 months out of every year, and it can be wild as hell, much more so that free roaming game. I know a couple of ranches wherein you probably can't get within 300 yds of a Nilgai and then its running..I had a 500 ac. deer lease in Texas, high fenced on 3 sides and literally crawling with nice bucks and we killed precious few deer on that lease, it was impossible to hunt and I never saw the same buck twice. If I am approached to consign to a ranch for hunting, I go, I look, I may hunt, and I decide...Todate I have two ranches in the USA that I book for that have high fences. One is fairly large, and one is huge. I have no problem with either and I doubt that you would see the same animal twice in a 5 day hunt..In Africa I have a couple of high fence ranches and the smallest is 30 to 40,000 acres as I recall. These issues, high fences, baiting, night hunting, stand hunting, are all issues of the anti hunting crowd and in threads such as this we lend credence to their claim, and I think that is not good for us as a whole, it merely shows a lack of understanding as to where hunting is going today in our crowded world, where we are running out of space and the bad management of our public lands where game becomes more scarce year by year. Many business men, doctors and other professionals who are tied to their jobs, or just trying to make a living in the modern world and who cannot be gone for weeks at a time can take advantage of a two or three day fenced hunt, and I for one will not refer to them as "fat cats" or would I ever fault them for being financialy sucessful and being able to afford such hunts..As I recall this is not a socialistic country and free interprise is still our way of life. I know a few heart surgeons in Houston that hunt only high fenced ranches, usually on a weekend during the year and the rest of the year they are saving lives.. Before we judge, better to walk a mile or so in their boots. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't have a problem with the type of fenced hunts that allen and Ray have described (I've never been on one, but) The way I see it though as allen was describing how it is in Texas today, the future of hunting looks like a wealthy mans sport. Now, not comming from wealth or having made a mint for myself, this is not an appealing thought to me. Hunting in this country, at least for deer in the east has been anything but that. So I would hate to see whole families get "priced out" of the experince of hunting. ------------------ "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3 | |||
|
| one of us |
Long Pig quote"HOWEVER: To you "holier-than-thou" types out there who are talking trash about fenced hunts - Shut Up! - unless you have hunted that kind of operation you have got no point of reference to condemn it" My .02 is worth the same as yours,or anyone Most of the holier than thou types have all said "FOR ME" I would not,but if you do,go for it. As far as point of reference goes I'll take my 5X4 elk killed in the Mountains over any 400+ point elk killed behind a fence. But thats just for me.If you want to ,knock | |||
|
| one of us |
quote: Not an argument - but a loosing strategy. Any concern whatever for the anti is to loose ground. Ours is a discussion among hunters. F Berkely.
quote: You could take the entire human population of the earth and put them into the state of Texas. It would be no more crowded than Manhattan. That would leave a whole hell of a lot of huntable space. I've never been concerned so much as to the "going" of the world, but as to whether or not that "going" is proper. What is lacking as far as understanding is that even consensus itself is not above reproach. I won't be carried on those waters. The world is not closing in - it is being set aside from the rabble.
quote: The boots I like best are those that don't smell of others feet. Again, it goes back to self-respect and respect for others. What was a depression era mulie hunt going for down your way? | |||
|
| one of us |
Hunting is a very personel experience for me. I won't condemn others for hunting fenced areas if the experience fills their need but I won't do it. I don't use guides or outfitters either. Now I don't have any heads that "make the book" but those I have are important trophies to me because of the way I got them. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Opinions on high fence elk hunting?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |