here is the sitiation, I am from Arkansas, and moved to Colorado 8 months ago. I missed residency by 2 months, but this year will be hunting a mixed bag of mulie and elk, with black bear possibilities. I need a western rifle as i sold my whitetail rifle before the move. Choices are:

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester
Browning x bolt - 7-08
Ruger #1 - 7 X 57
Remington 700 Mountain - 280 remington

I will have to hunt in wilderness and the elevation change is around 3500 feet, which is no biggie, but weight of the rifle is an issue.

I do have a large surplus of 7mm bullets,

None of the above. Ruger 77 Stainless .30-'06, with 6X36 Leupold scope...

180 Partitions. Sight in 2" high at 100 yards, go forth and fill an ark.

Ruger=heavy, i know that the ruger #1 is only like a half pound lighter, but it is a lot more handy, so that compensates.

Synthetic Ruger 77 weighs only seven pounds. Uses the standard contour barrel with a .308 hole in the end of it...

I would rather throw a rock at an elk than use a Browning or Model 700....

quote:

Choices are:

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester
Browning x bolt - 7-08
Ruger #1 - 7 X 57
Remington 700 Mountain - 280 remington

Why are these your only choices? It sounds like you already sold one rifle, why not the whole lot and purchase something that will get the job done. Mostly deer, a 270WSM. Mostly elk, a 300 WSM. As far as brand, how much $ do you want to spend. What feels good, eye candy ... And you have to add glass. VX III is a good starting point. Conquest and Swaro are great choices.

I consider all the calibres you list as equal in effectiveness with the proper bullet.

My choice is the 308.
I would use a premium bullet of 165 to 180gr, and have a sharp knife.

30-06, but if that isn't an option, I guesss I would have to settle with the .308

Why is the '06 not in your list?

These are also excellent calibers ...

.300
.338
.375

quote:

I do have a large surplus of 7mm bullets,

THen a 7mm Mag is a good choice!

Join the clumb of the "Magnificent 7"!

You would have trouble going wrong with the 280, but to be honest a lot would depend on what bullets you have for it.
You say that you havea a surplus of bullets, but that means nothing if they are not what you need.

quote:

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester

If I had to pick from your choices, it would be the model 70 chamebered in 308.

I would much rather have a 30-06, or for that matter a 300 Weatherby in the Model 70.

Don't let the naysayers discount your choices.

ANY of the calibers you list would work quite well for the game you've listed. I'd personally opt for the .308 given your parameters, but again, any would suit you just fine.

Despite what some will try and tell you, there's no need to have the word "magnum" attached to any cartridge in order for it to perform well on game.

And while there are no elk on my immediate hunting horizon, I've used a little 7mm Bullberry Carbine in a Contender to take an assortment of game here in Texas, including some rather large wild hogs, which are about as tough and stoutly constructed as any quarry around here. Proper bullet selection and the ultimate placement of said projectile into the prescribed spot will do more to put game on the ground for you than the actual choice of caliber itself.

Here's hoping you enjoy all of your new hunting opportunities...

If it were me I'd pick the 7X57.

Since it seems you like the 7mm I'd agree with the .280 Rem. Wouldn't be my choice since it isn't the .270 Win but the elk will never know the difference. All your choices will work so flip a coin.

If you have 7mm Bullets already one of the 7mm's you already listed, but do give the 7mm Mag some consideration.

It does have just a little more "Reach out and touch" than the 280...

As for the weight of the rifle?

PLEASE, just the sling from a rifle weighs a ton after lugging it around all day at 7,000feet, the difference between any two rifles that differe by only a 1lb or so is beneath trivial.

Those light rifles SOUND like a good idea but at low altutude after walking from the tailgate of your pickup truck to the shooting bench they are hard to hold steady.

The idea that a lighter rifle will shoot better after climbing over rocks and getting winded is beyond rediculous

AD

Buy the 308 Win Model 70, load some 165 gr Barnes TSX bullets and go forth with confidence.

Good hunting.

The one you shoot best!

You have listed a great selection of deer calibers. Yes, they will all work on elk, but are far from the best choice for large elk. You really should step up a notch if you plan to do much elk hunting.

I am a model 70 fan, and use a 308 featherwieght with some regularity. The 280 is perhaps a better all around caliber, so it would probably get my vote over the 308. I shot a lot of elk with the 308 in my youth. It killed them well, but penetration was marginal, and I learned to be careful with my shot selection. Again, there are much better elk calibers than any you listed.

Bill

While any of your choices will work, you're out west young man. Get a Mod. 70 in 338.

quote:

1st Western Big Game Rifle

I'm pleased you said '1st', because you'll also need a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, at the very least.

And then varmint rifles.

Get a .270 Winchester in a bolt action, the CZ American is a good start.

And start handloading if you don't already.

Shoot a lot, and at all ranges.

From your choice's .280

The calibers are all fine, I like the 308 and 280 the best. If it was my dollar I would get a Weatherby Sub-Moa in 308, 280, 30-06, 7mm Mag, or 300 Winchester. If your buying two a 338 Win Mag and a 257 Weatherby or 25-06 would do very nicely.

I've hunted Colorado since 1986 with basically one rifle a 30/06 with 180 grain bullets in a Win M70 lightweight and a 3-9 Leupold. This combo has been used on hunts for Deer, Elk Antelope, Bear, Bighorn Sheep, Mountain Goat etc.
Of your choices listed the .280 sounds the best in my mind. Don't let somebody tell you that you don't need a light rifle or the weight makes no difference, that is a sure sign of someone who doesn't hike the mountains of the west on their hunts. My '06 is a lightweight but hat doesn't mean its not heavy when you pack it all day, I also have a .338 in a Win M70 that is a bit heavier, just enough so that I don't want to carry it all day in search of Mountain Goats at 13,000' or Elk at 10 and 11,000'.
Get a light rifle and learn how to shoot it accurately, know your limits know your rifles limits and stick to that. Hunt high and hunt hard and have fun.
Good luck

In a perfect world I would chose either an '06 (Rem. Mtn. Rifle) or a 7mm Rem. Mag. To me, the M700 in 280 is the best of those choices. That Mountain Rifle configuration is excellent. The 280 might be a little light for the largest of bull elk or moose, but you will be well served for everything else. With modern premium bullets I'd have no qualms about elk hunting with the 280. I know caribou aren't elk, but I've taken 550+ lb caribou DRT at over 400 yards with a 280 using 160 gr. X bullets. The rifle I have it in is a Savage 110E.

2nd choice would be the 308 M70. The 308 is the most accurate cartridges I shoot, and my 308s are carbines. Both guns (Rem. M600 & H&K SL7) I consider 400 yd platforms.

I don't have a 7x57 but I have a Rem. 700 in 7-08. To me it's an excellent medium game cartridge, but I've never hunted anything larger than black bear with it.

To be honest, a magnum is not necessary, how much more "reach out there and touch something" does a 7 mag or 300 give you, unless you are just an average shooter. trust me, i know how big it is, in my pants, i don't need to show it with how big the rifle cartridge is.

those caliber choices were made, partly due to availability, and partly due to the fact that is all the gun that is needed out to 400 yards, even on the largest wapiti, I know I have done impact testing with large cowbones then into newspaper, this was with a ruger m77 compact 260, shooting tbbc's at 2700 fps. Most people buy those magazines and read and start to believe some of the hype,

the consensus seems to be the 280 remington,

If I were choosing by strictly the rifle manufacturer I would go Winchester model 70
If I had to make my choice based on cartridges I would definitely go 280 rem
being in your situation I would opt for the 280 for the simple fact that it will shoot heavier bullets with a mite more velocity

Gidday BattleMountain

What Bobby Tomek said. Makes more sense than the rest and your last post shows that you already know that.

The only reservation I would have would be your choice of manufacturer. I know that it will upset quite a few but the quality of firearms being produced in the US leaves a lot to be desired of late. I would be looking at the Tikka T3, the older Sakos (L series) or a CZ for value for money. Also the new Shultz and Larsen are well worth a look.

You are on the right track. Pick any of those calibres put it in a European rifle and you have a good quality yet functional rifle to last a lifetime.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

To be honest, a magnum is not necessary, how much more "reach out there and touch something" does a 7 mag or 300 give you, unless you are just an average shooter. trust me, i know how big it is, in my pants, i don't need to show it with how big the rifle cartridge is.

Look at ballistic coeficients, and one of the biggest factors in 200 to 300 yd shots in the west, wind!

280 is a good choice since it is on your list. My second choice to a 7mag would be a 30-06, if a person wants an all around, it is hard to beat.

The 280 is a fine caliber and would be my first choice. The 308 next. Hunting the west, you need a backup rifle. Being in a mountain rifle it will be lighter weight and easier to tote. It will also have additional recoil.

quote:

Choices are:

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester
Browning x bolt - 7-08
Ruger #1 - 7 X 57
Remington 700 Mountain - 280 remington

(Owning all the above calibres.)
Of your choices listed it would be the 280.

quote:

Posted 18 March 2009 08:48
here is the sitiation, I am from Arkansas, and moved to Colorado 8 months ago. I missed residency by 2 months, but this year will be hunting a mixed bag of mulie and elk, with black bear possibilities. I need a western rifle as i sold my whitetail rifle before the move. Choices are:

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester
Browning x bolt - 7-08
Ruger #1 - 7 X 57
Remington 700 Mountain - 280 remington

This must be a joke.

If you have no rifle at this time. why not the 30-06, its a great caliber, for western hunting.

I don't mean to dsicount the statement by Bobby Tomek at all. To paraphrase, "proper bullet placement with any of these cartidges will get the job done every time." That is certainly true. Also true is that proper bullet placement with a .223 will get the job done every time. The problem is we are not talking about on the range, or under ideal conditions. It the real hunting world, a little extra insurance isn't a bad thing.

I have hunted and owned all the calibers you list. I have taken elk, sucessfully, with the 280 and the 308. It is from that success that I argue these are marginal calibers for elk. I once shot a yearling cow at under 100 yards, braodside with the 308 and 150 grain Nosler partitions. I hit a rib going in, and the bullet continued through the heart / lungs and into the off rib cage, where it missed the bone and lodged under the skin. Classic Partition performance, with the nose well mushroomed and mostly gone, and the "solid" penetrating into the off ribcage. The elk only went a few yards and died. While the elk died quickly, this was another example (IMHO) of the 308's being a bit too light. I want bullets to exit in most cricumstances, especially without hitting heavy bone. What if I had hit a shoulder, instead of just a rib? What if the shot had been at a more severe angle?

Again, I have killed many elk with a 308, a 280, and even a 270. I haven't lost any animal shot with these calibers, and my longest shot with the 270 was at nearly 500 yards. One shot, DRT. But these shots were perfectly placed, and required a bit of luck. I don't like to rely on luck. Some days it seems luck just isn't on my side....

Occassionally I am on a combo hunt for deer /elk, etc., and still use a 270, or the 280. I think these a great deer cartridges. My 308 is very accurate and I love it for close deer hunting. When the intended quarry is primarily elk, I step up to at least an '06, and usually a 300 Win. There is just a lot more room for the natural errors that do occur. After more than 50 elk in the salt, I like to think that I have learned from my expereince. You are limiting yourself if you stick with the .308 or 280. Not a lot, and probably not at all for deer, or even most young elk at close range. I stopped using these calibers for large bulls before I lost one. I believed, and still do, it would only be a matter of time.

Good luck,

Bill

I would take the .280 any day. It shoots flat, can be extremely accurate depending upon the rifle and shooting skill, and will take any game on the North American Continent and all of Africa's plains game. Although lacking the knock down power of the .30 caliber magnums, shot placement kills much better than said "knock down" power. Recoil is forgiving and over the counter cartridges will handle anything your after. Reloading offers a wider range of options. One of the most overlooked cartridges ever made, but one that will handle all you seek.
Cheers,
LDK

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
I would take the .280 any day. It shoots flat, can be extremely accurate depending upon the rifle and shooting skill, and will take any game on the North American Continent and all of Africa's plains game. Although lacking the knock down power of the .30 caliber magnums, shot placement kills much better than said "knock down" power. Recoil is forgiving and over the counter cartridges will handle anything your after. Reloading offers a wider range of options. One of the most overlooked cartridges ever made, but one that will handle all you seek.
Cheers,
LDK

+1, and to boot it is a great 'Western Caliber'

280

I have taken just about all types of game in AK and in Mt and other states, many times over and all were taken with my Rem, .338 with handloads of 200gr to 250gr , topped off with a shepard scope for range shooting. Next is Africa !!


www.african-montana-taxidermy.com

Cough, cough...Ruger 77 Stainless .30-'06. Jack of all trades master of none...build your arsenal around it...

Winceshter model 70 - 308 winchester
Remington 700 Mountain - 280 remington

Choose either one. You won't go wrong, although your other 2 choices weren't bad either.

Oh man, hands down the Remington 700 chambered in 280 Remington. Have it reamed to .280 AI! It will be perfect!!

Just saw a Kimber 84M in 338 federal, also had one in 308, man they were light, not sure that is a good thing in the 338 federal though.