Hey all.....I need some help ASAP. A friend of mine is getting ready to buy his first rifle and I'm trying to prevent him from making a mistake. He's hell bent on buying a .30-30 and I absolutely despise this caliber. I know it CAN kill stuff.....but it's far from being an ideal all around caliber. He is on a budget (under $500 for the rifle), so I'm looking for suggestions for a decent bolt-action in a more appropriate cartridge, like .30-06 or .270. He will mainly be hunting Whitetail and Hogs with it, but he lives in the Rio Grande Valley and his uncle has access to Nilgai hunting as well, and I don't want my friend to be tossing 150 gr. .30-30 bullets at a 700 lb. Nilgai if he gets the chance to go.

I tried suggesting that he get an H&R Handi-Rifle in .30-06, but he refuses to consider a single shot. Please help.

Oh yeah!! I completely forgot about the Vanguard. Thanks .366

Savage rifles are notorious for shooting well right out of the box, and they meet his price range. The Howa 1500 is another good candidate.

But if he isn't opposed to a used gun, plenty of decent deals exist.

Caliber-wise, a .308 would do everything he ever asked of it and won't pound his shoulder into a giant bruise.

300 wsm, 708 remington, ruger 7rem mag are all going to fit that bill.

but, if he wants a lever gun, load it with the hornady bullets

http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/6791072101

btw, this is NOT a help urgent situation

Well in my opinion it is urgent, because he was going to buy that .30-30 today!!

Depeneding on where and how he hunts, the 30-30 is an excellent round.

BUT if he wants something different, I would say Savages (NOT Stevens IMHO) or a used ruger. Hard to beat the good old .270 or 30-06 for most things

It's REALLY hard to beat the package Savage deal on a rifle. I think I saw those at Wmart for about $350 last fall scope included, even though the glass is crap. 2 most popular cals are 270 and 30.06.

Tell your buddy I called the 30-30 a "dirty-thirty." It's a shit caliber with no wow factor whatsoever. Who gives a shit if it can kill. Lever actions suck. A 243 can also but it's also a shit caliber. 270 RULES.

quote:

I don't want my friend to be tossing 150 gr. .30-30 bullets at a 700 lb. Nilgai if he gets the chance to go.

The only diffrence in a 30-30 and a 30-06 is the speed of the bullet and bullet ogive...

30-30 is great for the brush in south tx. Short handi rifle good to 200 yards, I don't see the issue. I have one in the safe, it was my follow up gun of choice until it was replaced with a double rifle.

I really don't see a problem with his choice in rifles either. A good .30-30 will serve him well I imagine, makes a great beginers rifle. I don't think he is making a mistake at all. Sure it lacks luster these days but it has been killing game for a long time. I imagine it will still be around after I'm gone doing what it always does, and that is put meat on the table.

Your friend will probably buy more than one rifle in his lifetime so I wouldn't worry about his choice. Just be happy that he is buying a rifle and wanting to hunt with it. His taste in firearms just runs a little different than yours.

The 30-30 can be a great round and is not a bad one for someone to start with. Out to 100 to 150 yds its great for deer and hogs and the recoil is low enough that he'll probably be more accurate with it than he would with a heavy recoil rifle. Ammo is cheap and easy to find as well.

However, if he decides he wants something else let me suggest a Savage, Stevens, or Vanguard in .308 or 30-06.

What's wrong with the ol' thutty-thutty anyway?
I'd say that with 170 gr. bullets at about 2000 fps should be fine to about 100 - 150 yds. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean he shouldn't have one. If he has problems with it, he'll learn soon enough. Besides, one of the worst things a guy can do is hunt with a rifle he doesn't like/want. Sorry, can't go with ya on this one.
Bear in Fairbanks

Why should your dislikes overule his wants.

One of the best things a hunter can have in the field is confidence in his rifle. If he is OK with a 30-30, so be it. The 30-30 is like me, old and not used quite as much as it used to be. Does not mean for a second that it won't work.

Let him buy it. He will learn a cheap lesson and then realize that the .30-30 is more romance than gun. If he is that narrow minded, he deserves it.

did you all ever think that maybe this is all that he can handle.

It's not that it's all he can handle. Honestly.....I believe he just likes the way "thirty thirty" sounds when he says it. I don't think he realizes it has a rainbow-like trajectory. I've tried explaining the whole ballistics, trajectory, energy subject, but he is pretty narrow-minded. He wants an "all-round" gun that he can hunt almost anything with. That's why I'm trying to get him to buy a .30-06 instead. If I knew for a fact he would never shoot anything besides deer at under 100 yards, I would tell him to go for it and get the .30-30 if he wants. But he's talking about shooting 300 lb. hogs with it (not in the head either). In my opinion, that's a big NO NO.

He's from the valley, but he won't likely be hunting in the valley for deer. Just another side note, I don't really understand the whole concept of the .30-30 being a good "brush" gun. You can't honestly believe that a .30-30 performs better in brush than a .30-06 or similar high-powered cartridge.

Just my 2 cents

Sorry Chad......and others.......

I hunt the Rio Grande Valley every winter. The lease that I am on has nilgai. They are big, dense, and muscular, and "tightly wound". Tenacious! Overall, a VERY tough package. I compare 'em to elk, since I hunt elk, and in my opinion they are considerably tougher than elk to kill.

I've killed 1 nilgai bull, and I used my 30-06 with Colorado elk load. Nosler Partition 180 grain. When I lunged that bull, the "hit" didn't make that characteristic "whop" sound. It sounded more like I had shot a cinder block, or something like that.

The lease I am on is large, and all hunters must camp at this one central location. So I get to observe and talk with a fair number of hunters at the end of the day. On a disgustingly regular basis, someone will wound a nilgai. It'll be lost.

Sure, crappy shooting/bullet placement is sometimes to blame. But 95% of the hunters there are using some kinda favorite whitetail cartridge/ammo/load. So damn many of those beautiful nilgai that run off, crippled, are shot with 243's etc..with relatively light bullets. Ammo that was on sale at Walmart. Whitetail stuff. Very very few are hunting with stout cartridges and premium bullets. The mindset is that they won't _REALLY_ ever get a shot at a nilgai, so why be prepared for such an eventuality?

After seeing what I've seen there, on that lease, I am firm believer that something that causes more trauma than a 30-30 is necessary if you want to get clean kills. Nilgai are large, and they are just as tough as whang leather..maybe tougher!!

Lee C. in Denver CO

Lee, good to see you joined on here! Welcome aboard!

I know nothing of hunting the blue bull so I'll go along with he needs more rifle "IF" he hunts them. I'm sure if Eland Slayer is such a good friend he will loan his buddy a rifle. That is what I did to hunt my first elk since the only rifle I owned at the time was a .243 Win. My point is let the guy get what he wants.

I just don't think it is a mistake for a guys first rifle purchase to be a .30 WCF. I think a guy could do a lot worse than that for his first rifle. I know you can hunt year round down there in TX and he can get some target practice in shooting pigs or something. My bet is he will buy one rifle and then add another like the rest of us have done.

I just don't see how the .30-30 is a bad choice unless Nilgai is the only thing you are ever going to hunt and you don't have access to other rifles. I have no doubts however the .30-30 will do the job if he can place the bullet where it belongs. Yes there are bigger and badder rifles he could use but can he handle them.

Nothing wrong with the .30-30 or, for that matter, the .35 Rem. Both are fine cartridges for their application.

Are you sure you just don't like lever-guns?

Buying a 30-30 is like buying a Commodore 64 computer. Why when there are such better alternatives available? Seems he just wants what he wants.

Welcome FJ Lee. From reading your post, it sounds like you own a 30.06. Why the need for something else?

If you are in the market for another rifle, do yourself a favor and put the dirty thirty out of the choices. If anything, listen to your friend!!

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Are you sure you just don't like lever-guns?

No.....I happen to enjoy lever guns very much. I own a Marlin 1895CB .45-70 and, more than likely, I'll be purchasing the new Marlin 1895SBL in .45-70 as well. I just don't like underpowered calibers.

Eland Slayer,
Did you ever go back to A&M and get your degree?

quote:

Originally posted by BulldogMaster:
Eland Slayer,
Did you ever go back to A&M and get your degree?

Hmmm.....I never went to A&M. I'm in my 3rd year at Sam Houston and should be graduating Dec. 2010 with a Bachelors in Ag. Business though.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Welcome FJ Lee. From reading your post, it sounds like you own a 30.06. Why the need for something else?!

Doc, my friend..I think you have me mixed up with someone else.
Lee in Denver

ES, I agree with your view, as it also sounds like this guy isn't gonna be a multiple gun guy, I guess I'm just picking this up from your tone, but whatever. The 30-06 is THE all around caliber, a 30-30 is miserably underpowerd for Nilgai, or Elk at all, and has no range to speak of as you mentioned. A weatherby with a Burris FF II or simmilar scope is a hell of a package, and as someone else mentioned, you could certainly find some used '06s that would be in budget.

I don't know how a guy couldn't get excited about a brand new Weatherby in '06 for a first rifle though--damn, sounds like I should go get one!

Good luck convincing him!

Another vote for Savage. It's my least expensive and most accurate rifle.

It looks like he's going to consider the Vanguard. He likes it from reading about it and seeing pictures of it. I think he's going to go look at one this weekend. Hopefully he will fall in love with it and have to have one!

The Hornady Leverevelotion .30/30 load does change the matrix somewhat. My experience with it is quite favorable. It is a 160 grain polymer-tipped (pointed) bullet at 2400 f.p.s. from a 24 inch barrel. It is safe to use in tubular magazines. While my T/C Contender is not a lever gun, I get better than 1" groups regularly and the customer reviews at Midway USA are pretty darn positive.

Energy is 2046 ft. lbs. at the muzzle and over 1000 ft. lbs. at 300 yards.

Another suggestion for your buddy if he is determined to get a lever gun: He should look for a used BLR in .308 Winchester. It is a flat-slabbed gun, usually quite accurate and is truly a 300 yard rifle with a decent scope. I've seen several in decent shape on auction sites for less than $450.
Ad for Leverevolution

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by FJ Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Welcome FJ Lee. From reading your post, it sounds like you own a 30.06. Why the need for something else?!

Doc, my friend..I think you have me mixed up with someone else.
Lee in Denver

Guess so, skimmed the threads, thought you were ES friend he was talkin bout. Sorry!

I would never tell someone not to get a 30-30. I've killed more deer with a marlin 336 30-30 than any other rifle, as well as many others I know. It's a classic that performs, especially in thick timber. Let him get what he wants. It's not your choice. Just make sure to educate him as to what the caliber is capable of. He can always borrow a rifle if he wants to hunt nilgai.

Tell your buddy....

"There ain't many things a man can't fix with a few hundred dollars and a thirty ought six".

Unless one lives in Alaska, northern Canada, southern or eastern Africa, I can't imagine how this calibre is not everyone's first purchase.

....or tell him to buy 2 Mosin Nagant m44s and 2000 rounds of steel core ammo for the same money.

Savage, Vanguard, Howa, R700, Marlin XL-7, Stevens 200.......there are plenty of good shooting rifles under 500$ Heck most of the ones I listed are under 400$! And every single one is available in god calibers for what he wants to do.

within 200Yd a 30-30 is ery capable even restricting yourself to Cup&Core bullets.

The tipped Hornady bullets are cup & core, just lower aerodynamic drag.

Now if you spring for something like Nosler Partitions...

Remember, 114years ago when the 30WCF was first introduced you could count the cartridges that actually
were more powerful on your fingers while keeping one hand in your pocket.

Bigger creatures than Elk and Nilgai have been killed with less powerful cartridges.

Granted I'd rather have a 30-06 myself, but a 30-30 will kill pigs and deer just as dead
as anything else will.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
...but a 30-30 will kill pigs and deer just as dead
as anything else will.
AD

I'll have to disagree with that one Allan. Deer....yes. Pigs....NO!! If you shoot a big (200+ lbs) boar that is mature from a broadside angle, I'm willing to bet a .30-30 bullet will not penetrate the shield. If you shoot him in the head, that's another story, but you can't expect a novice beginning hunter to make head shots on a regular basis.

Tell him to go to Decker Praire Pawn and look @ the used guns there...I've seen plenty of good deals in there...though not all the time.

THEN go to Tomball Pawn after that....

BTW
GO KATS

There are tons of Remington 700 30-06's in that price range. Buy that rifle and a copy of One land One Gun by Jones and he will feel comfortable.

ddj